We had such situation in our game:

Party consists of 3 PC one of whom is a Dragon Mirumoto Two-Heavens School bushi from Agasha family, who decided to change his life right after genpuku (15 years old) and became Monastic Acolyte – shaved his head, abandoned status and preaches Tao wisdom, plans to be a Taoist monk. Character is on a musha shugyo (so isn’t connected to the clan and has no mons). He also has Fukurokujin's Blessing which he interprets as premonition of “direction to the nearest library or source of knowledge”.

Party comes to a rather secluded dojo (where “secret techniques” are taught) on the top of the mountain. They are greeted by it’s Seppun sensei and given hospitality. One of the PCs asks for an opportunity to show off his skills and potentially become a dojo student. Sparring is arranged and so everyone in the dojo (sensei, 4 his students and party of PCs) are distracted by watching the friendly sparring between best student and PC.

Meanwhile aforementioned monk acolyte asks GM if there is a source of knowledge nearby, insists that he feels it even without knowing because of Fukurokujin's Blessing and receives an answer that there may be one in the living quarters of sensei and students in nearby building.

Then asks one of the students “Where is your library?”, student is a little bit shocked as there is only 3 houses on the top of the mountain and no library, but knows that only scrolls they have are periodically given to them by sensei (secret technique ones so as religious and mundane texts) and they are asked to keep this in secret. So NPC answers politely that they don’t have a library. After such an answer PC monk acolyte secretly comes out of training hall building, while everyone are distracted, goes directly to building with living quarters, opens the door, closes it behind so he couldn’t be seen, “searches for library or books”, consults with his precognition and enters the sensei’s room (door was closed, but not locked) finds a chest with intricate lock with jade ornament. Then PC goes away closing the doors behind and returns to the party and sensei when sparring is over.

He starts a conversation with sensei in which he directly asks “What is in the chest in your room?”, the one he apparently to sensei couldn’t know about if he hasn’t been in his room. Sensei is disturbed buy rudeness of his guest and break of rules of hospitality (courtesy), but politely avoids answering the question. Monk acolyte publically starts talking daringly to person of apparently far greater status and even insults a dojo comparing it to the inn and so on, provoking sensei for a fight. Sensei even tells him what he wanted – that there is his personal stuff and memories from the past in the chest – non of the business of the young boy whom he doesn’t know as he has no mons on him (PC monk acolyte). He doesn’t compromise, but agrees to give him a free lesson in the morning as it is getting dark today.

After the game I as a GM asked player and had a clear answer that he intentionally provoked sensei (even gave an example from fluff story of such behavior), and that his character doesn’t feel guilty for secretly visiting private room of sensei without permission. Also he motivates such behavior by that there is a taint on the mountain (it actually is, but dojo inhabitants know nothing about it) and his Fukurokujin's Blessing have guided him to the source of knowledge that after being researched will give a hint on what is wrong with kami of the mountain (mentions this only after doing all this, during game asked exactly for library/books).

My question is for what in mentioned situations he should forfeit honor and how much?

Could he leave without any consequences?

(I would appreciate any answers and could give details if needed)

I am a good natured GM and almost always compromise on player’s point of view if party agrees and has fun, even when I think that it is wrong. In this case the whole party is shocked with actions of monk player so we argue a little bit.

In this situation I’ve asked player to only forfeit Attribute Rank of honor because of Breach of Rei (Courtesy, rule of hospitality – secretly breaking in the private room of higher ranking person without permission).

I even didn’t asked to forfeit honor for insulting dojo – work of life of the old sensei in front of him (clearly higher status person).

But player disagrees even with such penalty.

What do you think.

P.S.: Sorry for bad English – it is not my native language.

"Should a monk acolyte forfeit honor for breaking bushido tenet?"

As a short answer, yes.

The question is therefore if they did.

16 hours ago, Zander Gi said:

In this situation I’ve asked player to only forfeit Attribute Rank of honor because of Breach of Rei (Courtesy, rule of hospitality – secretly breaking in the private room of higher ranking person without permission).

I even didn’t asked to forfeit honor for insulting dojo – work of life of the old sensei in front of him (clearly higher status person).

But player disagrees even with such penalty.

What do you think.

Right....stupid comments and memes out the way.

16 hours ago, Zander Gi said:

Party consists of 3 PC one of whom is a Dragon Mirumoto Two-Heavens School bushi from Agasha family, who decided to change his life right after genpuku (15 years old) and became Monastic Acolyte – shaved his head, abandoned status and preaches Tao wisdom, plans to be a Taoist monk. Character is on a musha shugyo (so isn’t connected to the clan and has no mons). He also has Fukurokujin's Blessing which he interprets as premonition of “direction to the nearest library or source of knowledge”.

The 'narrative descriptions' of avantages are way too general statements to be taken literally.

Fukurojin's Blessing says:

• You always know the nearest location where you can undertake research on a given subject, and can complete research in half the time it would take another character.
• When performing a check for which the blessing of this Fortune is a benefit (such as a Medicine [Fire] check to experiment with a cure for a strange new malady or a Survival [Fire] check to speculate on a creature’s possible qualities based on its physiology), you may reroll up to two dice

That's not a 'library radar' and it's certainly not a 'hidden scroll radar'.

This is the same as people who claim the Playfulness passion (" When you say something untoward to someone of lower or equal status, they write it off as your playful nature instead of being significantly angered or saddened by it. ") as meaning you can never offend a social equal, regardless of what you say, which is equally ridiculous, or that Sixth Sense (" You have an instinctive sense of supernatural beings, and you can feel the presence of spirits and similar entities even when they have not chosen to reveal themselves") lets you bypass any adventure with a supernatural element by saying 'It's that guy there' as opposed to 'there's an angry spirit behind this'.

The nearest location you can undertake research meaning you know the nearest place that there's a great clan school or library that' publically known about is one thing. Claiming you can use it to detect hidden scroll caches is nothing to do with research.

Even if he was claiming you could take it the way he was arguing, what subject was he looking for a location to undertake research on? Because if he was looking to learn martial techniques, a perfectly valid answer is "the dojo". Because scrolls are useless without the dojo and sensei to practice with.

16 hours ago, Zander Gi said:

After such an answer PC monk acolyte secretly comes out of training hall building, while everyone are distracted, goes directly to building with living quarters, opens the door, closes it behind so he couldn’t be seen, “searches for library or books”, consults with his precognition and enters the sensei’s room (door was closed, but not locked) finds a chest with intricate lock with jade ornament.

let's ignore the 'scroll radar'. Even without the premonition (which I do not agree is a valid way to interpret the advantage), he could have found the locked chest with a decent water ring check, magic or not (note that Fukurojin's blessing is a fire advantage, by the way, meaning it applies to innovating or theorising not searching!).

But he entered the living quarters and searched them without permission. Which is dishonourable; it's not respecting the sensei's privacy. I'd call it a trivial violation of righteousness (which is the general 'violating law, custom and tradition' tenet). And, no, that doesn't matter if anyone knows you did it. Glory is about public perception; honour about your view of yourself. He knows he did it.

16 hours ago, Zander Gi said:

He starts a conversation with sensei in which he directly asks “What is in the chest in your room?”, the one he apparently to sensei couldn’t know about if he hasn’t been in his room.

That's publicly admitting to the above, anyway.

16 hours ago, Zander Gi said:

Monk acolyte publically starts talking daringly to person of apparently far greater status and even insults a dojo comparing it to the inn and so on, provoking sensei for a fight.

That's insultng the dojo, which is clear violation of courtesy. Probably a trivial one but if it was specifically intended to be insulting and provoking a fight, it's probably good for a trivial breach unless it's very carefully worded.

16 hours ago, Zander Gi said:

his character doesn’t feel guilty for secretly visiting private room of sensei without permission.

Then he should be fine with losing a point of honour for doing so. If someone thinks they don't deserve to lose honour for an arguably dishonourable act, I ususally reverse the question - what tenet of bushido do you think you've upheld , for example.

16 hours ago, Zander Gi said:

My question is for what in mentioned situations he should forfeit honor and how much?

I would say a trivial breach of righteousness - 1 - for searching the rooms he had no business being in - and either a minor or major breach of courtesy - attribute or attribute x2 - depending on whether his insults could be considered 'directly insulting the sensei' (I'd lean towards no).

Certainly it's not a situation where honour loss is completely avoidable.

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I ususally reverse the question - what tenet of bushido do you think you've upheld , for example.

Smart

Thanks for the detailed answer.

I've also started a copy of topic on reddit , there are more activity, details and opinions if you are interested.

Thanks.

I agree with the comment by Alaknog; I would let him have the 'free lesson'...

Sensei bows, welcomes him to the dojo, and gestures out onto the tatami.

"So....what are you going to teach me?"

"Respect."

[Thwack] [Thud]