I have two lists that I have been playing for the last month or so and can't decide which one I would like to play in an upcoming tournament. Both are equally fun. I have about 5 practice games with each team and am 4-1 with them both. Any suggestions? I am almost positive I will see some FO and Scum aces as well as a TIE defender of two at this tournament based on my local meta. Both list share some similar elements, like getting ships double modded, Dutch Vander because he is so good and Ten Numb because B wings are awesome.

List 1:

A/SF-01 B-wing - •Ten Numb - 48
•Ten Numb - Blue Five (48)

RZ-1 A-wing - •Jake Farrell - 36
•Jake Farrell - Sage Instructor (36)

Z-95-AF4 Headhunter - •Lieutenant Blount - 30
•Lieutenant Blount - Team Player (30)

BTL-A4 Y-wing - •“Dutch” Vander - 45
•“Dutch” Vander - Gold Leader (40)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)

T-65 X-wing - Cavern Angels Zealot - 41
Cavern Angels Zealot - (39)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0)

Total: 200/200

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List 2:

A/SF-01 B-wing - •Ten Numb - 48
•Ten Numb - Blue Five (48)

BTL-A4 Y-wing - •“Dutch” Vander - 45
•“Dutch” Vander - Gold Leader (40)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)

T-65 X-wing - •Garven Dreis - 47
•Garven Dreis - Red Leader (47)
Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0)

UT-60D U-wing - •Cassian Andor - 59
•Cassian Andor - Raised by the Rebellion (51)
•K-2SO (8)
Pivot Wing (Open) (0)

Total: 199/200

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I personally like the second list. I'm a Cassian/U Wing stan and have a list i'm itching to try out that's very similar but uses Jake Farrell. Plus the little bit of a bid can't hurt right? I'd go with the second list. They're both interesting though.

My vote is #1

#2

#1

#2

#2

Dutch vander with ion turret is kinda trash, he needs torps

55 minutes ago, Roller of blanks said:

Dutch vander with ion turret is kinda trash, he needs torps

How do you recommend fitting torps on Dutch into either list?

On 2/17/2020 at 8:40 PM, Amc879 said:

How do you recommend fitting torps on Dutch into either list?

1. Ten Numb: Autoblasters, B-Foils
2. Garven Dreis: X-Foils
3. Dutch Vander: Plasma Torpedoes
4. Cassian Andor: U-Foils

Or what I am flying now...

1. Ten Numb: FCS, Autobasters, B-Foils, Elusive
2. Garven Dreis: X-Foils
3. Dutch Vander: Proton Torpedoes, R3 Astromech
4. Jake Farrell: Predator, Crack Shot

If you want to go with the U-Wing build, I would just drop Dutch Vander for Jake Farrell or Arvel Crynyd for example and use the spare points to outfit Ten Numb with FCS and maybe slap something on the U-Wing. Alternatively...

1. Ten Numb: FCS, Autoblasters, B-Foils
2. Dutch Vander: Plasma Torpedoes
3. Jake Farrell: Predator
4. Cassian Andor: Leia Organa, U-Foils

On 2/17/2020 at 6:43 PM, Roller of blanks said:

Dutch vander with ion turret is kinda trash, he needs torps

Couldn't disagree more.

Dutch with an ICT to the side and Proton Bombs is such a solid little piece.

As far as I can tell, the argument that he 'needs' ProTorps seems to come mostly from the fact that Dutch likes to lock to fuel his ablity, and torps also use locks so why not use that lock to fire a torp? But that's it. There seems to be no consideration for the fact that it's very easy to dodge Dutch's ProTorp shots. Whether by arc dodging with reposition because he's I4 and ProTorps uses the same arc as his primary, or simply by staying out of range 3 to avoid the lock, then zooming into range 1 knowing that his 3 dice primary at that range really isn't that bad. Dutch just doesn't have the actions to range control well.

ProTorps are better on an X-Wing where the problem you cause your opponents is that you have 4 dice at every range, and you can't ever expand your arcs anyway.

Dutch's value is as coverage and support, not damage. For the same cost as ProTorps, you can get ICT, R4 Astro and Proton Bombs. I think that's a much more versatile and effective use of the points. Especially as R4 is just a bonus, and you can quite happily drop Proton Bombs to Seismics if you're good around obstacles to make him cheaper while still being more effective.

However . I would agree that ICT Dutch without Proton Bombs is a fair bit weaker. I think he still has a place in a list, and wouldn't say he still needs torps there. But the threat of ion as you pass to the side and a proton bomb that's guaranteed to hit the ionised ship is seriously potent, and without the bombs the ion becomes less effective and it gets easier for your opponent to get behind Dutch and force a rotate action to deny your mods.

I have been considering bombs in Dutch for a while. My only fear is my own ships often end up behind Dutch. I have tweaked the list a bit to come up with this

UT-60D U-wing - •Cassian Andor - 54
•Cassian Andor - Raised by the Rebellion (51)
Crack Shot (1)
•Jyn Erso (2)
Pivot Wing (Open) (0)

T-65 X-wing - •Garven Dreis - 48
•Garven Dreis - Red Leader (47)
Crack Shot (1)
Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0)

BTL-A4 Y-wing - •“Dutch” Vander - 45
•“Dutch” Vander - Gold Leader (40)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)

A/SF-01 B-wing - •Ten Numb - 49
•Ten Numb - Blue Five (48)
Crack Shot (1)

Total: 196/200

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1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

Couldn't disagree more.

Dutch with an ICT to the side and Proton Bombs is such a solid little piece.

As far as I can tell, the argument that he 'needs' ProTorps seems to come mostly from the fact that Dutch likes to lock to fuel his ablity, and torps also use locks so why not use that lock to fire a torp? But that's it. There seems to be no consideration for the fact that it's very easy to dodge Dutch's ProTorp shots. Whether by arc dodging with reposition because he's I4 and ProTorps uses the same arc as his primary, or simply by staying out of range 3 to avoid the lock, then zooming into range 1 knowing that his 3 dice primary at that range really isn't that bad. Dutch just doesn't have the actions to range control well.

ProTorps are better on an X-Wing where the problem you cause your opponents is that you have 4 dice at every range, and you can't ever expand your arcs anyway.

Dutch's value is as coverage and support, not damage. For the same cost as ProTorps, you can get ICT, R4 Astro and Proton Bombs. I think that's a much more versatile and effective use of the points. Especially as R4 is just a bonus, and you can quite happily drop Proton Bombs to Seismics if you're good around obstacles to make him cheaper while still being more effective.

However . I would agree that ICT Dutch without Proton Bombs is a fair bit weaker. I think he still has a place in a list, and wouldn't say he still needs torps there. But the threat of ion as you pass to the side and a proton bomb that's guaranteed to hit the ionised ship is seriously potent, and without the bombs the ion becomes less effective and it gets easier for your opponent to get behind Dutch and force a rotate action to deny your mods.

That is a very interesting point you are making. I have been looking at the Lock and mostly thinking of Proton Torpedoes as the way to go. Especially since Dutch can joust and use Reload to get himself some more Torp Torp. I have to admit, those Proton Torpedoes have won me games, forcing criticals through some pesky defences and catching some Aces at Range 3 completely of guard. But I have to admit, there were times when I felt, like I was really missing a mobile arc on the Y-Wing.

1. Ten Numb: FCS, B-Foils, Autoblasters
2. Garven Dreis: X-Foils
3. Arvel Crynyd: Intimidation
4. "Dutch" Vander: Proton Torpedoes, R3 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret

Bam... New Hyperspace legal list for me.

EDIT:

6 minutes ago, Amc879 said:

I have been considering bombs in Dutch for a while. My only fear is my own ships often end up behind Dutch. I have tweaked the list a bit to come up with this

UT-60D U-wing - •Cassian Andor - 54
•Cassian Andor - Raised by the Rebellion (51)
Crack Shot (1)
•Jyn Erso (2)
Pivot Wing (Open) (0)

T-65 X-wing - •Garven Dreis - 48
•Garven Dreis - Red Leader (47)
Crack Shot (1)
Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0)

BTL-A4 Y-wing - •“Dutch” Vander - 45
•“Dutch” Vander - Gold Leader (40)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)

A/SF-01 B-wing - •Ten Numb - 49
•Ten Numb - Blue Five (48)
Crack Shot (1)

Total: 196/200

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Drop Crack Shot on Ten Numb and slap him with B-Foils and FCS. I would also drop Jyn Erso and Crack Shot on U-Wing to slap Ten Numb with Autoblsters. Amazing damage output. I consider B-Foils on Ten Numb to be a must have, as he can double mod himself without outside help. Just do a Roll > Red Lock.

On 2/19/2020 at 6:15 AM, GuacCousteau said:

Couldn't disagree more.

Dutch with an ICT to the side and Proton Bombs is such a solid little piece.

As far as I can tell, the argument that he 'needs' ProTorps seems to come mostly from the fact that Dutch likes to lock to fuel his ablity, and torps also use locks so why not use that lock to fire a torp? But that's it. There seems to be no consideration for the fact that it's very easy to dodge Dutch's ProTorp shots. Whether by arc dodging with reposition because he's I4 and ProTorps uses the same arc as his primary, or simply by staying out of range 3 to avoid the lock, then zooming into range 1 knowing that his 3 dice primary at that range really isn't that bad. Dutch just doesn't have the actions to range control well.

ProTorps are better on an X-Wing where the problem you cause your opponents is that you have 4 dice at every range, and you can't ever expand your arcs anyway.

Dutch's value is as coverage and support, not damage. For the same cost as ProTorps, you can get ICT, R4 Astro and Proton Bombs. I think that's a much more versatile and effective use of the points. Especially as R4 is just a bonus, and you can quite happily drop Proton Bombs to Seismics if you're good around obstacles to make him cheaper while still being more effective.

However . I would agree that ICT Dutch without Proton Bombs is a fair bit weaker. I think he still has a place in a list, and wouldn't say he still needs torps there. But the threat of ion as you pass to the side and a proton bomb that's guaranteed to hit the ionised ship is seriously potent, and without the bombs the ion becomes less effective and it gets easier for your opponent to get behind Dutch and force a rotate action to deny your mods.

I took dutch with ICT + Protons to the Fort worth system open, and it was a waste of 50 points to be honest.

This might be lack of experience or skill, but none of my opponents had any trouble dodging dutch's proton bombs, and with the Y-wing's dial, dutch was rotating more often than not. This made his ability almost nullified, and his only real contribution was drawing attention off the other guys.

Later, in the worlds qualifier, I brought dutch with proton torpedoes, and he cleaned house. He's an excellent battering ram. All you need to do is joust the other list with him. Aces? Joust, there's no way they'll risk a proton torp, so pick an area you want to deny, at point him that way. Lock aces to keep them honest, and give a lock to someone who can catch them.

Jousting/beef list? Dutch adds a lot of jousting power, so you can often get ahead in the damage race if you have good positioning in the first engagement. Past that, he's a force multiplier for as long as he's alive, soaking shots to protect your endgame pieces.

Against boba+fenn, he can do either. Hold him back and try to catch boba at long range, or get locks for the whole squad on fenn. Again, let him soak shots.

On 2/19/2020 at 10:59 AM, Amc879 said:

I have been considering bombs in Dutch for a while. My only fear is my own ships often end up behind Dutch. I have tweaked the list a bit to come up with this

UT-60D U-wing - •Cassian Andor - 54
•Cassian Andor - Raised by the Rebellion (51)
Crack Shot (1)
•Jyn Erso (2)
Pivot Wing (Open) (0)

T-65 X-wing - •Garven Dreis - 48
•Garven Dreis - Red Leader (47)
Crack Shot (1)
Servomotor S-foils (Open) (0)

BTL-A4 Y-wing - •“Dutch” Vander - 45
•“Dutch” Vander - Gold Leader (40)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)

A/SF-01 B-wing - •Ten Numb - 49
•Ten Numb - Blue Five (48)
Crack Shot (1)

Total: 196/200

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Wouldn't you get more value out of Lando crew?

2 hours ago, LUZ_TAK said:

Wouldn't you get more value out of Lando crew?

Maybe? Jyn and Garven combo well to pass garvens focus and turn it to an evade. Plus gives Ten evade +stress instead of focus stress