I'm asking for a dual-facion Dreadnought for years, but OPs idea is just doesn't work in my opinion and doesn't fit into either the Disney canon or the original canon characteristics of the ship.

Why 4 different package? Why a special die only for this ship? Especially one that cannot be mitigated? What's the point? Is this the Death Star or something? In doublearc this ship has a damage output roughly of an ISD front arc because you can't brace or redirect it. And 10 hull? Basically an ISD hull for third-half the price? Sure it won't be too powerful to roam with 90 hulls around in the same list. Add Motti. This ship would way-way-waaaaaay too overpowered.

6 hours ago, Wulfrain said:

Tanky medium base ship (7-9), but with low firepower, 1 squadron and command 3 min.

This is a good idea points wise for this ship I think, with exception that it should have a little more firepower at broadsides than an assualt frigate.

I like the idea of it being rebel or imperial but, definitely would have to include both factions upgrade cards in one box and not more than that.

One thing though... when you look this ship up... it's classified mostly as a "heavy crusier" so wouldn't it be a bit more beefy than an assualt frigate?

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dreadnaught-class_heavy_cruiser

The Dreadnought of Legends is a heavy cruiser, which was introduced during the end of the Clone Wars, and was being taken out of main use and service by the Imperial Navy during the GCW.

The Rebel Alliance got there hands on old ones, and refit them with a more efficient crew use, heavier shields and some additional weapons and sensors in comparison to the Dreadnought- the refit ship was the Assault Frigate Mk1, which has 6 different types. This ship was then surpassed by the Assault Frigate Mk2 - which was designed to be faster, and have additional shields, but I think the MK2 had less add-on hull armor plating...and this is the AF Mk2 in the game for the Rebels.

Based on that Legends lore I would have a hard time seeing an Imperial Dreadnought have better shields or more red dice than the AF Mk2 (but it could have additional firepower in blue or black dice as needed.

In Canon, since the only appearance of the ship class is the Imp Support Vsl, I also see that as being something similar to the Arquitens in terms of long range offensive firepower, but could have additional short range firepower and/or better flak (in comparison to the Arq) but have better fleet support abilities either through unique titles, or a Fleet Command! slot, or even a Fleet Support upgrade slot.

7 hours ago, Cap116 said:

The Dreadnought of Legends is a heavy cruiser, which was introduced during the end of the Clone Wars, and was being taken out of main use and service by the Imperial Navy during the GCW.

The Rebel Alliance got there hands on old ones, and refit them with a more efficient crew use, heavier shields and some additional weapons and sensors in comparison to the Dreadnought- the refit ship was the Assault Frigate Mk1, which has 6 different types. This ship was then surpassed by the Assault Frigate Mk2 - which was designed to be faster, and have additional shields, but I think the MK2 had less add-on hull armor plating...and this is the AF Mk2 in the game for the Rebels.

Based on that Legends lore I would have a hard time seeing an Imperial Dreadnought have better shields or more red dice than the AF Mk2 (but it could have additional firepower in blue or black dice as needed.

In Canon, since the only appearance of the ship class is the Imp Support Vsl, I also see that as being something similar to the Arquitens in terms of long range offensive firepower, but could have additional short range firepower and/or better flak (in comparison to the Arq) but have better fleet support abilities either through unique titles, or a Fleet Command! slot, or even a Fleet Support upgrade slot.

Oh hey look at that.

On 2/14/2020 at 3:19 AM, TallGiraffe said:

I still hold by my own concepts for the design.

Though the Dreadnought variant may lose a blue or red out the side.

I've read the Thrawn Trilogy and they're my all-time favourite Star Wars novels, so I can appreciate the Dreadnaught heavy cruiser. However, I don't see the need for it in Armada when the Rebels already have the Assault Frigate Mark II. And I understand that Rebel players are desperate for a second medium ship, but the Dreadnaught isn't the right choice. TBH I'd rather see the Assault Frigate Mark I for the Rebels than the Dreadnaught.

I'm also in favour of cross-faction ships for Armada, but the Dreadnaught isn't the prime candidate for this because a) The Empire had retired most Dreadnaughts from service by the time of the GCW; and b) The Rebels used the AFM1 and AFM2, not the Dreadnaught (because its 16,000 crew was ridiculous). A Rebel Quasar Fire light carrier or an Imperial Nebulon-B (ideally the re-imagined design by EC Henry) are much better choices for cross-faction ships, and all they would require are new cards and cardboard from FFG.

I want a dreadnaught.

OP's build and cost is better than a lot of other posts for me.

I expect a tank and I expect to run 3-4 of them with room for another ship role and not be sqaudless.

8 hull, 2 shields around, not much base firepower, 70 points max!

I agree they should feel janky, some type of offense that has a low success rate but they are stubborn enough to hang in there and pull off. I like blue dice for it and definitely needs katana fleet upgrade.

The rebels definitely need this ship more too!

On 2/15/2020 at 12:24 PM, ISD Avenger said:

One thing to keep in mind. Officially, this is the Imperial Support Vessel not a dreadnought anymore.

Historically, in navies, warships often get reclassified as they age. So a battleship can go from from top of the battle-line to third rate support ship. We can therefore theorise that decades after its initial heavy cruiser designation, it is now re-rated as a support vessel (Imperial Navy) or frigate (Alliance Navy) or system defence ship (local planetary forces), as technology has advanced.

4 hours ago, skirmisher said:

Historically, in navies, warships often get reclassified as they age. So a battleship can go from from top of the battle-line to third rate support ship. We can therefore theorise that decades after its initial heavy cruiser designation, it is now re-rated as a support vessel (Imperial Navy) or frigate (Alliance Navy) or system defence ship (local planetary forces), as technology has advanced.

Absolutely valid way of looking at it. Even though Star Wars space combat in the films is based on WWII, the technological progression is much more akin to the great age of sail.

It was not unheard of for a ship to remain in military service for up to 100 years, and those were wooden ships in water. Adjust that to metal polymer and ceramic materials in the relatively less abusive environment of a near vacuum, and the potential for ships to see several centuries of service seems quite possible.

Just a side note, but even the weapon technology surge depicted in the sequel trilogy is analogis to the Advent of rifled cannon in the early to mid 1800s.

Personally, 10 hull does not bother me too greatly. Consider the idea that it is a design theory where emphasis was placed on heavy armor and light (or maybe no) shields. Given that I have no ships in front of me at the moment, just roll with my train of thought. Say a "modern" medium ship has a broadside value of 3 shield/ 6 hull. 9 dice getting through one shots it. Take a similar ship that has 1/8 or even 0/9. Same damage takes it out. Now assume most ships get hit on more than one side before erupting in spectacular fireballs. Not taking into account any dice/damage mitigation, those ships will now be taking more than 9 dice damage combined. However, a ship light on shields but heavy on hull suddenly looks a little more fragile. 10 hull with the right shields and maybe even upgraded, or lack thereof, may actually work just fine. Maybe...

17 hours ago, skirmisher said:

Historically, in navies, warships often get reclassified as they age. So a battleship can go from from top of the battle-line to third rate support ship. We can therefore theorise that decades after its initial heavy cruiser designation, it is now re-rated as a support vessel (Imperial Navy) or frigate (Alliance Navy) or system defence ship (local planetary forces), as technology has advanced.

I too like the way you put that. I was thinking of the way it was thought of when it was first designed and used as a main ship of the line.

To a star destroyer or modern cruiser it would be more akin to a frigate now a days, although maybe a "heavy frigate" designation would be in order.

Off topic but still kinda related... I think a Lancer frigate for imperials and a Ranger gunship for the rebels would cool as anti fighter ships. Would give new options....

13 hours ago, cynanbloodbane said:

Absolutely valid way of looking at it. Even though Star Wars space combat in the films is based on WWII, the technological progression is much more akin to the great age of sail.

It was not unheard of for a ship to remain in military service for up to 100 years, and those were wooden ships in water. Adjust that to metal polymer and ceramic materials in the relatively less abusive environment of a near vacuum, and the potential for ships to see several centuries of service seems quite possible.

Just a side note, but even the weapon technology surge depicted in the sequel trilogy is analogis to the Advent of rifled cannon in the early to mid 1800s.

I would disagree that space is a less abusive environment than the sea for a ship hull. The colossal temperature swings as the hull moves in and out of direct sunlight, for example, are problems that the ISS struggles with on a daily basis. The effect of space dust abrading the hull would also be enormous (read Arthur C Clarke's "The Songs of Distant Earth" where a colony ship from earth, travelling through deep space, stops off at a water world to rebuild the ice shield it is using to stop its hull being worn away by space dust).

But, well, Star Wars is space opera rather than sci-fi so we can handwave all of the wear and tear and say 'it's done by magic', but I agree with the rest of it, that ships stuck around for a long time and were repurposed. Old dreadnaughts became training ships or barrack ships or prison ships for example.

11 hours ago, flatpackhamster said:

I would disagree that space is a less abusive environment than the sea for a ship hull. The colossal temperature swings as the hull moves in and out of direct sunlight, for example, are problems that the ISS struggles with on a daily basis. The effect of space dust abrading the hull would also be enormous (read Arthur C Clarke's "The Songs of Distant Earth" where a colony ship from earth, travelling through deep space, stops off at a water world to rebuild the ice shield it is using to stop its hull being worn away by space dust).

But, well, Star Wars is space opera rather than sci-fi so we can handwave all of the wear and tear and say 'it's done by magic', but I agree with the rest of it, that ships stuck around for a long time and were repurposed. Old dreadnaughts became training ships or barrack ships or prison ships for example.

I absolutely agree, and am a huge Arthur C Clarke fan. However the visual evidence of the Star Wars universe suggest that the realities of space travel for us don't apply there. Everything from the explanation of repulsorlift technology to the apparent existence of an aether rather than a true vacuum, imply less than hostel conditions.

I make no such claims of the actual universe.

FYI, one of the recent star wars sourcebooks confirmed that the Imperial support ship is still called a dreadnaught cruiser. I posted a picture in a thread I made about it.

Dreadnaught class.

19 hours ago, RG1701 said:

FYI, one of the recent star wars sourcebooks confirmed that the Imperial support ship is still called a dreadnaught cruiser. I posted a picture in a thread I made about it.

Dreadnaught class.

Exactly.

Based on this I'd expect an imperial (only) ship, with 2 very variants to represent the modular weapon options. Both could be relatively tanky with one as a support and AA vessel and thither being a short ranged broadside ship.

On 2/22/2020 at 8:47 PM, Wulfrain said:

Off topic but still kinda related... I think a Lancer frigate for imperials and a Ranger gunship for the rebels would cool as anti fighter ships. Would give new options....

Agreed. Though the Lancer frigate now actually belongs to the First Order, at least as far as official mentions in tie-in media go. It gets a couple of mentions in “Before the Awakening” by Greg Rucka, if memory serves.

Until FFG gets us a Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser I'm not brushing my teeth or sobering up.

2 hours ago, jbc98k said:

Until FFG gets us a Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser I'm not brushing my teeth or sobering up.

If you drink enough alcohol, you can quantum leap into the future.

Seriously people, I made a comment about the 10 hull medium ship idea and NO ONE has anything positive or negative to say about it? I am sadly disappointed in the direction this group has taken lately.

And in case anyone cannot tell, the last line was done with tongue in cheek sarcasm, lest someone get offended. But I am curious what people think of my take on 10 hull mediums.

Rage! Anger! .... 😑 😁

10 hull on a medium puts it in Crusier class to me. Maybe 8 hull would be more of a better option and it would still be considered pretty tanky.

Depending on the points it would cost to field one of these at 10 hull and they are a medium based ship... someone running 3 of these would have more hull to get through than two Star Destroyers . Yikes...

If it had crappy defence tokens (eg double contain, 1 redirect) and no defensive retrofit it would fit in with my idea of an older craft that's a bit outdated but has been kept on because of its rugged hull.

38 minutes ago, flatpackhamster said:

If it had crappy defence tokens (eg double contain, 1 redirect) and no defensive retrofit it would fit in with my idea of an older craft that's a bit outdated but has been kept on because of its rugged hull.

This is the line of thought I was following. Think y-wing vs b-wing here. Older heavily armored but crap shields vs great shields but not so tough hull. Diff in the armada world is that shield regen is much easier to do than hull repair. Honestly, think WW2 armored cruiser vs newest US Zumwalt class with virtually no armor but all kinds of stealth tech, aka shields is SW speak. I thinks this gives you a nice split between old school thinking and newer military ideology.

On 2/23/2020 at 12:57 PM, RG1701 said:

FYI, one of the recent star wars sourcebooks confirmed that the Imperial support ship is still called a dreadnaught cruiser. I posted a picture in a thread I made about it.

Dreadnaught class.

All I can say is if it looks like that , it will be a “Pass” for me. 😉

4 hours ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

All I can say is if it looks like that , it will be a “Pass” for me. 😉

What, you aren’t interested in the Imperial Assault Minivan?

As for the Hull Value, I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with a 10-hull Medium base... I mean, that’s basically Interdictor level. I think the key is looking at overall survivability and damage output, and making sure it’s all balanced against cost. Obvious stuff here, but my point is, it doesn’t much matter what the hull value is, if it has terrible shields and bad defense tokens.

Personally, I’d like to see something a bit cheaper and smaller than a VSD, with decent broadside capability, and an overall “survivability quotient” of something on the order of, or slightly less than, an AFMkII. It would be really nice if, after a couple essential upgrades, the whole package came to something around 75-80 points. There are a couple of “price points” which the Empire has trouble hitting without highly specialized ships like Demolisher, and that’s one of them.

Alternatively, they could try making it a real bucket of ****, and giving us the first Medium based ship costing 40 or 50 points! That could be interesting.

5 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

What, you aren’t interested in the Imperial Assault Minivan?

As for the Hull Value, I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with a 10-hull Medium base... I mean, that’s basically Interdictor level. I think the key is looking at overall survivability and damage output, and making sure it’s all balanced against cost. Obvious stuff here, but my point is, it doesn’t much matter what the hull value is, if it has terrible shields and bad defense tokens.

Personally, I’d like to see something a bit cheaper and smaller than a VSD, with decent broadside capability, and an overall “survivability quotient” of something on the order of, or slightly less than, an AFMkII. It would be really nice if, after a couple essential upgrades, the whole package came to something around 75-80 points. There are a couple of “price points” which the Empire has trouble hitting without highly specialized ships like Demolisher, and that’s one of them.

Alternatively, they could try making it a real bucket of ****, and giving us the first Medium based ship costing 40 or 50 points! That could be interesting.

That 75-80 points before or after upgrades?

The range of hull for medium ships now goes from 6-9. Hull for large ships goes from 8-11 (+14). Flotillas are 3 and small 4-5.

10 hull certainly is more a big ship, than medium.

Another thing is. As a rule of thumb the FP of a ship is 10x hull. Only Flotillas (6-9 pts/Hull), Hammerheads (7-8) and Vic I (9 pts/Hull) are below that. You could argue, that Vic I and Dreadnoughts are old ships, so 9 pts/Hull are okay. Then a dreadnought with 10 hull should be around 90 FP. But is that what the Empire really needs? Another slow, tanky, clumsy medium sized ship?

I don't like the design for the dreadnought, but I would (probably) like it, if it would come as a cheap 4-5 hull small ship in a similar cost range and role like Hammerhead Corvettes.