Heavy Fire Zone - Instigator Interaction

By Captain_Nemo, in Star Wars: Armada Rules Questions

So Heavy Fire Zone takes effect as long as I attack a squadron which isnˋt engaged by a friendly squadron.

Instigator says that enemy squadrons in distance 1 are treated is if they are engaged by two additional squadrons.

My question is now wether I can attack squadrons in distance 1 of Instigator via Heavy Fire Zone or not.

Part of me says yes as Instigator doesnˋt specify friendly squadrons, while on the otherhand I think no, as enemy squadrons really only can be engaged to friendly squadrons.

So, what is the answer here?

You’ll have to ask FFG for an actual answer.

Any answer anyone else gives you here will be based, one way or another, on the assumptions you stated, and relies otherwise on the vagaries of the English Language.

It seems weird that HFZ explicitly states "engaged with a friendly squadron" when normally that wouldn't be necessary. Maybe they put that on purpose to make it work when the engagement is with "ghost" squadrons like this case?

Either way, I agree with Drashnighta that only FFG can give us the correct answer here.

I'll give an answer.

The "ghost" squadrons do cause engagement, and they are friendly otherwise they would lock down your squadrons as well.
That's the whole reason why you cannot attack Valen Rudor if an enemy squadron is near Instigator and Rudor.

So, you would not be able to use HFZ on enemy squadrons that are engaged by the "ghost" squadrons.

Edited by Karneck
1 hour ago, Karneck said:

I'll give an answer.

The "ghost" squadrons do cause engagement, and they are friendly otherwise they would lock down your squadrons as well.
That's the whole reason why you cannot attack Valen Rudor if an enemy squadron is near Instigator and Rudor.

So, you would not be able to use HFZ on enemy squadrons that are engaged by the "ghost" squadrons.

Actually, those "ghost" squadrons can never engage your own squadrons because the Instigator card specifically says that it affects enemy squadrons.

2 hours ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Actually, those "ghost" squadrons can never engage your own squadrons because the Instigator card specifically says that it affects enemy squadrons.

Because the are considered friendly. (Again, pointing out Valen Rudor not being able to be attacked) There is no such thing as neutral squadrons. Squadrons are either friendly to each other, or not. There is no inbetween.

If you think about it tho, Instigator is the thing causing the engagement so they're really engaged with a ship...

7 minutes ago, Indy_com said:

If you think about it tho, Instigator is the thing causing the engagement so they're really engaged with a ship...

The ship is what's causing you to treat those enemy squadrons as though they were engaged by two squadrons.

Not the same thing as engaging directly.

You can never be “engaged” with a friendly squadron... so that part of the question doesn’t make sense. Instigator causes affected enemy squads to be treated as if engaged by two squads for all purposes. So my read is that, no, HFZ cannot be used on a squadron that’s engaged with the ghost squads.

13 hours ago, Karneck said:

Because the are considered friendly. (Again, pointing out Valen Rudor not being able to be attacked) There is no such thing as neutral squadrons. Squadrons are either friendly to each other, or not. There is no inbetween.

Valen Rudor says "engaged with another squadron", not "engaged with a friendly squadron" like HFZ. What I'm saying is that maybe that distinction in the writting of the card was on purpose. Just maybe.

Edited by Lemmiwinks86
20 hours ago, Karneck said:

Because the are considered friendly. (Again, pointing out Valen Rudor not being able to be attacked) There is no such thing as neutral squadrons. Squadrons are either friendly to each other, or not. There is no inbetween.

I question this, only because nothing seems to grant the "ghost" squadrons "friendly." From the RRG:

Quote

All ships and squadrons in the same fleet are friendly to each other. All ships and squadrons in an opposing fleet are enemy ships and squadrons.

The "ghost" squadrons don't actually exist. This is why Intel doesn't work on them (there is no way for them to be within 1 of your Intel squad) and why a ship can be attacked if only Valen Rudor is around (they don't exist, so they are not valid targets). They don't have a cost, abilities, associated cards, etc. They do not become part of your fleet. If it's not part of your fleet, it can't be friendly.

Really the squadrons effected by Instigator just have a state changed. A squadron can be engaged or not engaged. Engagement is simply between two squadrons who are enemies of each other. Take the Station is an example of where three squadrons can all be engaged with each other without being friendly to any of the other squadrons, but still get use out of abilities such as Swarm.

That said, Unity and HFZ are the only two cards that require engagement by a friendly squadron, so this wave is the first time they have chosen to differentiate "engaged by a squadron" and "engaged by a friendly squadron."

Edited by Astrodar
Clarification and proper English

And “engaged” is a condition that can only affect squadrons that are not friendly to each other. It even makes sense in plain English. If I’m flying around in an aircraft, and someone is trying to shoot me down, I’ve been engaged by an enemy. If I’m flying alongside a friendly aircraft, I’m not engaged by anything.

Example why “friendly” may be important. In Take the Station with 4 players a target squadron may be engaged with a squadron that belongs to a different enemy player. HFZ would allow you to use the red flak against both of those squads. Even though they are engaged with each other, they are not engaged with any squadrons friendly to you.

Edited by bkcammack
On 2/13/2020 at 2:53 PM, Lemmiwinks86 said:

It seems weird that HFZ explicitly states "engaged with a friendly squadron" when normally that wouldn't be necessary. Maybe they put that on purpose to make it work when the engagement is with "ghost" squadrons like this case?

Lets be serious. They allowed the intern that was there over the summer/winter to write the card text for that card and they didnt get around to fixing it yet. Lets give them some time, it will surely be part of the next FAQ.

2 hours ago, RapidReload said:

Lets be serious. They allowed the intern that was there over the summer/winter to write the card text for that card and they didnt get around to fixing it yet. Lets give them some time, it will surely be part of the next FAQ.

There is no need to insult hardworking people.

14 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

There is no need to insult hardworking people.

There is a difference between insult and satire. No insult was intended.

'Ghost' squadrons don't exist though.

The card specifies friendly squadrons, but there are no squadrons at all, its just a title card effect saying the enemies behave as if engaged.

They are not actually engaged with any squadrons, because there are none, they dont exist.

so therefore it seems like HFZ should work.

Edited by Wintercross