I'm sure this is not exactly a secret, but... Leia can take Hate! Remember when people fussed about Darth Maul getting force back on 10hp? Now Leia with 13hp can get double force!

Here's the two builds I just cooked up and will be trying next chance I get:

Defensive version:

(79) Leia Organa [Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter]
(12) Maul
(2) Jyn Erso
(9) Hate
(14) Ezra Bridger
(5) Cluster Missiles
(4) Stealth Device
(1) Munitions Failsafe
(3) Millennium Falcon
Points: 129

(62) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(3) Brilliant Evasion
(6) Stealth Device
Points: 71

Total points: 200

Two extra sturdy ships for a battle of attrition. Between the +1 green, title reroll, extra force, and some help from 'average' dice, she should be immune to a couple 2 die attacks before embracing the Dark side to recharge and then still consistently shrug off a damage per attack. Even if the first attack overwhelms two green dice it still blocks as much as a shield would have. Jyn is there as support to give Luke extra turtle power as well. Use gas clouds strategically for extra protection.

Offensive version:

(79) Leia Organa [Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter]
(12) Maul
(12) Kanan Jarrus
(9) Hate
(14) Ezra Bridger
(2) Electronic Baffle
Points: 128

(62) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(1) Instinctive Aim
(1) Munitions Failsafe
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
Points: 70

Total points: 198

More force for more mods! Maul and Hate stack for double recover on damage and EBaffle let's you turn around and trade that stress to get more force back at the end of the round too. You'll have to take out the opponent fast though, cuz self damage is a very short term strategy. Almost every action for Leia should probably be red Boost to avoid getting shot when possible or Lock of you're in a good position to stack mods. Instinctive Aim puts the fear of torpedoes in higher aces and don't forget that with Leia nearby Luke can K-turn/T-roll into position and get a focus for a more modified surprise torpedo! Smaller area of APT might mean you need to block the target into position. I might rather take Engine Upgrade for Leia or Foresight+bid for Luke over the Instinct Torp...

I'll put these in my box for the next game night and see if there's any legs to them.

Heh, I kinda like this. Nice concept, Darkside Leia and her Lightside Twin. I think I would try something like this:

Leia Organa (79)
Hate (9)
Ezra Bridger (14)
Maul (12)
Millennium Falcon (3)

Ship total: 117 Half Points: 59 Threshold: 7

Luke Skywalker (62)
Foresight (4)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Ship total: 79 Half Points: 40 Threshold: 3

Total: 196

Luke is just plain more likely to survive, so putting a few extra points into him as a sort of points fortress makes more sense to me. And with i5's still being all the rage, a bit of a bid might go a long way. Actually, with that in mind, I reckon Sense might be better on Luke than anything else. Crikey, that's still a chunky Leia, though.

Let us know how you get on!

Seems like a fun archetype, @nitrobenz . Personally, I think I like a stripped-down Leia more like @Kleeg005 's version.

Of course, I'd probably swap to R2-D2 on Luke away from Foresight, but getting a Torpedo on Luke seems nice. I find it really hard not to just stable R2 to Luke. If he takes a bad turn, eats a few hits, he can just turn out and run and take forever to die.

Also, I kinda want to try to squeak in Engine Upgrade. With possible Maul for stress, I kinda want to have access to White boosts, so that I don't start stressed.

*edit* How necessary is both Hate and Maul? Maul's already mini-Hate, and having all three of Engine Upgrade and R2-D2 and Proton Torpedo seems really nice to me...

56 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

*edit* How necessary is both Hate and Maul? Maul's already mini-Hate, and having all three of Engine Upgrade and R2-D2 and Proton Torpedo seems really nice to me...

I figure the stealth device version has a non-zero chance of rolling 2 eyes, spending 2 force, and still taking 1 damage. More generally though either version could spend all but 1 force on the attack then recover the pool over a round of taking fire even while potentially spending a force on every defense.

Hate+Maul to get 2 force off every damage is excessively greedy double dipping, but I'm looking at it more like Maul is mostly for +1 force while Hate is the primary recovery with Maul recovery just to top it off as needed.

I could definitely see swapping Hate for Sense, or Foresight to fill some space in the front arc, maybe even Instinctive missiles? There's actually lots of options!

Now, I think that this Leia is toooo thicc...but she's **** good thicc. I dig Ezra, Maul, Hate, Jyn, and the title to round out defense and maintain reasonable offense, even if rerolls are wanting...but pure offense is rarely the point in lists like this anyway!

Luke with R2-D2 and a Shield Upgrade seems like a nice idea imo to keep him alive as well

I just realized that with Leia+Jyn+falcon she can K-turn/S-loop and trade a force charge for an Evade token to keep up the pseudo-reinforce 😁

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Of course, I'd probably swap to R2-D2 on Luke away from Foresight, but getting a Torpedo on Luke seems nice. I find it really hard not to just staple R2 to Luke. If he takes a bad turn, eats a few hits, he can just turn out and run and take forever to die.

Also, I kinda want to try to squeak in Engine Upgrade. With possible Maul for stress, I kinda want to have access to White boosts, so that I don't start stressed.

*edit* How necessary is both Hate and Maul? Maul's already mini-Hate, and having all three of Engine Upgrade and R2-D2 and Proton Torpedo seems really nice to me...

1 hour ago, Greebwahn said:

Luke with R2-D2 and a Shield Upgrade seems like a nice idea imo to keep him alive as well

Ha ha, yeah, I went there almost as soon as I posted my above version. Leia build stays the same, but Luke drops ProTorps for R2-D2 and a Shield Upgrade, swaps Sense for Foresight, becomes an 81 point "fortress." Heck, with Sense on Luke, you could go the full 200 and put Jyn on the Falcon. Might actually be fully worthwhile.

Maul is there simply to give access to Hate - just as Ezra is there simply give access to Maul. Ezra's and Maul's abilities will never see play - I mean, maaaaaaybe Ezra might, but that would be a stretch. But if you have Hate, you don't need Maul's ability. Ever.

I mean, it's all chasing some jank, right? I also toyed with getting 3PO and K-2 into the mix somehow. K-2 can toss a Calculate to 3PO to activate his card text. Find room for Jyn somewhere in the list, maybe Lando. Lotta options in Extended Rebels right now.

edit: Something like this? I know it's a long stretch away from Dark Leia, but it looks like a janky good time.

Leia Organa (79)
Sense (5)
C-3PO (8)
Lando Calrissian (2)
Engine Upgrade (7)
Millennium Falcon (3)

Ship total: 104 Half Points: 52 Threshold: 7

Magva Yarro (50)
K-2SO (8)
Jyn Erso (2)
Pivot Wing (0)

Ship total: 60 Half Points: 30 Threshold: 4

Airen Cracken (36)
Ship total: 36 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2

Total: 200

5 minutes ago, Kleeg005 said:

I mean, it's all chasing some jank, right? I also toyed with getting 3PO and K-2 into the mix somehow. K-2 can toss a Calculate to 3PO to activate his card text. Find room for Jyn somewhere in the list, maybe Lando. Lotta options in Extended Rebels right now.

Kleeg gets it this is definitely a janky just for funsies list.

Then again, these days I feel like even most jank combos have a shot on game day, and there have been lists that were laughed off as "jank" right up until they place or win at an event 🤣

On 2/12/2020 at 5:55 PM, nitrobenz said:

I'm sure this is not exactly a secret, but... Leia can take Hate! Remember when people fussed about Darth Maul getting force back on 10hp? Now Leia with 13hp can get double force!

Here's the two builds I just cooked up and will be trying next chance I get:

Defensive version:

(79) Leia Organa [Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter]
(12) Maul
(2) Jyn Erso
(9) Hate
(14) Ezra Bridger
(5) Cluster Missiles
(4) Stealth Device
(1) Munitions Failsafe
(3) Millennium Falcon
Points: 129

(62) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(3) Brilliant Evasion
(6) Stealth Device
Points: 71

Total points: 200

Two extra sturdy ships for a battle of attrition. Between the +1 green, title reroll, extra force, and some help from 'average' dice, she should be immune to a couple 2 die attacks before embracing the Dark side to recharge and then still consistently shrug off a damage per attack. Even if the first attack overwhelms two green dice it still blocks as much as a shield would have. Jyn is there as support to give Luke extra turtle power as well. Use gas clouds strategically for extra protection.

Offensive version:

(79) Leia Organa [Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter]
(12) Maul
(12) Kanan Jarrus
(9) Hate
(14) Ezra Bridger
(2) Electronic Baffle
Points: 128

(62) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(1) Instinctive Aim
(1) Munitions Failsafe
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
Points: 70

Total points: 198

More force for more mods! Maul and Hate stack for double recover on damage and EBaffle let's you turn around and trade that stress to get more force back at the end of the round too. You'll have to take out the opponent fast though, cuz self damage is a very short term strategy. Almost every action for Leia should probably be red Boost to avoid getting shot when possible or Lock of you're in a good position to stack mods. Instinctive Aim puts the fear of torpedoes in higher aces and don't forget that with Leia nearby Luke can K-turn/T-roll into position and get a focus for a more modified surprise torpedo! Smaller area of APT might mean you need to block the target into position. I might rather take Engine Upgrade for Leia or Foresight+bid for Luke over the Instinct Torp...

I'll put these in my box for the next game night and see if there's any legs to them.

Ezra gunner allows Maul crew

1. Leia Organa (79)
Ezra Bridger (14)
Maul (12)
C-3PO (8)

2. Luke Skywalker (62)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
R2-D2 (8)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Total: 196

Is what I would go for. C-3PO gives you two Calculates, which you can spend on guessing the amount of evades. Sadly you cannot mod the Focus result before C-3PO checks for his outcome. But the opportunity for 2 Evades for the cost of one Calculate i there. I feel like Leia wants to be stressed and in the middle though... So maybe...

1. Leia Organa (79)
Ezra Bridger (14)
Maul (12)
Herra Syndulla (4)

2. Luke Skywalker (62)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
R2-D2 (8)
Afterburners (6)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Total: 198

That second Leia is a big mean jouster... Owning that middle of the board. I also enjoy the idea of Luke having access to Boost in case he might need to escape.

EDIT:

One problem I have with this list is... Why does Leia have more Force than Luke? WIth Ezra, Kannan and Maul she is more powerful than Vader? Was she always the main villain?

15 hours ago, Schanez said:

One problem I have with this list is... Why does Leia have more Force than Luke? WIth Ezra, Kannan and Maul she is more powerful than Vader? Was she always the main villain?

Maybe... It's an alternate universe where Leia found some interesting artifacts in the temples on Yavin 4, unlocking her full dark potential? Maul is obviously there for encouragement while Luke, Ezra, and Kanan try to reel her back in.

Either that or it's just the power of teamwork! 🌈 😜 seriously though, if Leia's working with Ezra, Kanan, and Maul (who must be re-resurrected and/or a Sith spirit?) I think they should at least rival Vader's abilities.

Finally got some table time with Dark Leia. Nothing revelatory to report about my games last night except that I found both lists immensely satisfying in a 1e Rainbow Dash kind of way. I'm splitting my comments into two posts, one for the two versions I tested.

The defensive version (Maul, Jyn, Hate, Ezra, missiles, Stealth, Falcon title) can unsurprisingly tank damage, especially from multiple small shots. I double dipped Maul+Hate a couple times to top off force from a single hit. I also locked Vonreg to finish him off off later, having 3/4 arc coverage against the squirrelliest ship in the enemy list was great. I like this Leia pretty much as is, but I think I'll tweak Luke for more offence.

Giving Luke evade saved him a lot of damage, which would have been more if not for Midnight sneaking up on him to pop the stealth device right away. I did actually trigger Brilliant Evasion once that game which probably kept him on the board. I now feel that Brilliant Evasion is probably about as good as Heroic, maybe? But it costs 2 more points so... maybe not.

Not sure what direction to go with optimizing this list.

19 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

I now feel that Brilliant Evasion is probably about as good as Heroic, maybe? But it costs 2 more points so... maybe not.

Let's see some quick dice calcs, vs 4 3-red focused attacks: http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi_preset/?d=IwAAAAMAAAAE&a1=AgMAAA&a2=AgMAAA&a3=AgMAAA&a4=AgMAAA and variants:

At Range 3:

• Poe Plain: 4.867
• Poe Heroic: 4.649
• Luke Plain: 2.633
• Luke Brilliant Evasion: 2.552
• Luke Heroic: 2.301
• 7B Plo Plain: 3.300
• 7B Plo Brilliant Evasion: 3.043
• 7B Plo Heroic: 3.039

At Range 2:

• Poe Plain: 6.126
• Poe Heroic: 5.722
• Luke Plain: 4.310
• Luke Brilliant Evasion: 4.298
• Luke Illegal Heroic: 3.653
• 7B Plo Plain: 4.687
• 7B Plo Brilliant Evasion: 4.549
• 7B Plo Heroic: 4.155

Wow. Wasn't expecting Brilliant Evasion to be this far below Heroic, but since they don't directly compete... My sense is that Brilliant Evasion isn't so much an "evade-adding" talent as much as it's a force-saving talent. Sure, sometimes that'll mean evades added, but with Luke's bottomless well of force charges, BE kinda doesn't add too much to him. I think it probably wouldn't be bad on a CLT Jedi, but otherwise... meh. Maybe on Vader, since Hate is out of Hyperspace, but not vital.

The offense version (Maul, Kanan, Hate, Ezra, Baffle) was also really fun for me, this one in particular reminded me of 1e Rainbow Dash with the big force pool giving constant focus mods and Kanan clearing stress on any standard maneuver

First game against a Phasma mini-Swarm+Rush I managed to get Ezra to trigger twice while Rush was attempting to flank which brought up my output with the reroll to take out the rest of the list a little faster and Luke kept Rush dodging instead of getting dice mods. I never seriously considered using Baffle here, but I did double dip on force recovery (Maul+Hate) to top off my force pool like every other turn that I didn't boost.

Second game, against 4 Resistance A's & Vi Moradi, went a lot rougher after I got Leia Intimidation blocked in the kill box during the first/second engagement. Both Luke and Leia survived by a few hit points though and struggled to pick off the A-wings until the endgame where 3 health Leia was up against Zizi and Greer. After a few rounds of exchanging fire to minimal effect the game ended with simultaneous kills between Zizi and Leia, leaving Greer the sole victor! In that game I only considered using Baffle once, but I wished I had the falcon title several times so I think I'll switch that upgrade.

Again, I'm not sure what I want to do with Luke here... I couldn't pin Rush with Instinctive ATP and the 1 extra die didn't make a difference against the A-wing I used it on. With the switch from Baffle to title on Leia there's only 9pts including bid for Luke. I'm considering R5-D8 and a 3pt bid for my next test, but maybe there's just a better wing mate than Luke for 60-70 points? I like the Skywalker twins idea though...

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

My sense is that Brilliant Evasion isn't so much an "evade-adding" talent as much as it's a force-saving talent. Sure, sometimes that'll mean evades added, but with Luke's bottomless well of force charges, BE kinda doesn't add too much to him.

Yeah, that one success has blown my confirmation bias out of proportion. I spent both force on my attack and used the one recovered force to block 2 damage, meanwhile my opponent only got heroic once all game. Thanks for crunching the numbers bitterfig

Dark Leia actually could be good, but I'm fairly certain that Ezra Gunner is the very worst Ezra there is (which is saying something). Ezra TIE is a very affordable Sense carrier and blocker. Ezra Attack Shuttle can take Sense and Cassian for some crazy information-overload shenanigans (and perfect-information dial-setting). Even sheathipede Ezra isn't much more than AP-5. On the other hand, Ezra gunner gives you... one more force charge? You'll never use the double-tap, making the re-roll totally irrelevant. Hate makes larger force pools better, but 14 points better? I think not.

With that in mind, maybe:

Leia Organa (79)
Hate (9)
Maul (12)
Lando Calrissian (2)

Ezra Bridger (TIE Fighter) (31)
Sense (5)

Luke Skywalker (62)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z393X204WWW48W44WWWY14X75WY4XWWWW142&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

You could alternatively drop Ezra to foresight and bump Lando up to the Title (which is strictly better), but I'm not sure whether that Ezra would still be worthwhile.

You could even take Ezra naked for Title + Stealth.

18 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Ezra TIE is a very affordable Sense carrier and blocker. Ezra Attack Shuttle can take Sense and Cassian for some crazy information-overload shenanigans (and perfect-information dial-setting). Even sheathipede Ezra isn't much more than AP-5.

. Good point! How could I forget all the Ezra pilots? I don't know about dropping Leia down to only 2 force though, especially with Hate. In my games so far I would regularly boost Leia to only take one shot, spend most/all of her force on attack & defense, then use Hate & Maul to get back up to cap minus 1 so I could get it to full at the end of the round. With less than 3 force I don't see as much need for Hate+Maul...

I'll definitely have to take another look at Ezra as a pilot. With Kanan to bring the force back up to 3 there's not really room for Luke as a third ship, but there's some other good options or maybe it's just Leia and Ezra

8 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Dark Leia actually could be good, but I'm fairly certain that Ezra Gunner is the very worst Ezra there is (which is saying something). Ezra TIE is a very affordable Sense carrier and blocker. Ezra Attack Shuttle can take Sense and Cassian for some crazy information-overload shenanigans (and perfect-information dial-setting). Even sheathipede Ezra isn't much more than AP-5. On the other hand, Ezra gunner gives you... one more force charge? You'll never use the double-tap, making the re-roll totally irrelevant. Hate makes larger force pools better, but 14 points better? I think not.

With that in mind, maybe:

Leia Organa (79)
Hate (9)
Maul (12)
Lando Calrissian (2)

Ezra Bridger (TIE Fighter) (31)
Sense (5)

Luke Skywalker (62)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z393X204WWW48W44WWWY14X75WY4XWWWW142&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

You could alternatively drop Ezra to foresight and bump Lando up to the Title (which is strictly better), but I'm not sure whether that Ezra would still be worthwhile.

You could even take Ezra naked for Title + Stealth.

So the thing I want to do with this is to equip Leia with Han Gunner and missiles (and cut Lando... I just don't think Lando crew is any good). Now that'd be a way to really spend all that force you'd have.

• Ezra-TIE (Sense) 36
• Arvel Crynyd (Intimidation) 37
• Leia (Hate, Maul, Han Solo, Concussion Missiles, Engine Upgrade) 127

Oh god. This list is so bad. I think it's hilarious, however.

//

More broadly, that Han Gunner + Concussion Missiles package might be OK in general... Lando or Leia both can easily get an Init 7 primary attack, followed by an Init 5 missile attack.

9 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

More broadly, that Han Gunner + Concussion Missiles package might be OK in general... Lando or Leia both can easily get an Init 7 primary attack, followed by an Init 5 missile attack.

After the initial nerf of Han Gunner+Roark double tap I tried Han Gunner + missiles on Lando and Dash to get diagonal bullseye double taps. At that time my local meta shifted hard to arc dodgers though so it wasn't very successful

I think it's worth revisiting in the current meta and Leia adds the ability to take Instinctive Aim so you can virtually have a 270 arc without the need to Lock, plus you can still have those diagonal bullseye double taps.

2 hours ago, nitrobenz said:

After the initial nerf of Han Gunner+Roark double tap I tried Han Gunner + missiles on Lando and Dash to get diagonal bullseye double taps. At that time my local meta shifted hard to arc dodgers though so it wasn't very successful

I think it's worth revisiting in the current meta and Leia adds the ability to take Instinctive Aim so you can virtually have a 270 arc without the need to Lock, plus you can still have those diagonal bullseye double taps.

The thing which strikes me: a primary + missile attack probably does about as much damage as a Finn Rey. Not quite as brutal at Range 1 (switch to Mag Pulse?), to be sure, and not as Sloop-Happy. However, you'll be a lot better equipped to switch to side arcs and boosts after the first pass. Realistically, it's more of a thought for a regular Light -not- Dark Leia, but pair with Luke with either Heightened Perception or Instinctive Aim and Proton Torpedoes, and you've got an interesting sort of squad.

Alright, this week I tried lists with Ezra pilots instead of Gunner and... Was not happy with my results

Ezra-pede is going to take a style of play that I can't get a handle on to optimize in a 2 ship list. I feel like I might as well have flown with a 60pt bid if I didn't need him around to enable Maul.

My Ezra-TIE list made enough room to squeeze in a decent third ship, but I still wasn't happy with it. I feel like I was missing all my toys and just struggled to make headway due to constant stress limiting force availability.

In all of the games where I didn't have them I really missed both Hate getting my force back as well as Engine Upgrade boosting without getting stressed! Even with Kanan I would prefer to go into every turn with full force instead of down 1. Also, Stealth Device put in serious work in my Ezra-pede list, it saved me around 4 damage in Long range/obstructed territory before getting popped. Han Gunner was good for front arc double tapping, but I'm conflicted on whether Instinctive is worth the opportunity cost of losing Hate, and if I can't find an Ezra-pilot I like it won't matter since I'll need him back in the Gunner seat to keep Maul on board.

TL,DR: I'll have to proxy Ezra-shuttle for next week's games and see if that feels any better, but at this point I'm leaning towards a return to 2 ship which means sticking with Ezra-gunner.