Let's say you're playing something that is either so bulky that realistically most games end up with a lot on the table (sinker swarm, 5Ys, 4BZ, 4Resistance joust) or even a list with aces that run. What are the guidelines/rules for asking a player to speed up?

Is it ok to say: This archetype is known to have leftover ships on the table 90% of the time, please increase your speed of play?

Assume they aren't playing horribly slow and are well within the bounds of respectful play. Is it possible to ask for a speed up anyway?

31 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Assume they aren't playing horribly slow and are well within the bounds of respectful play. Is it possible to ask for a speed up anyway?

No. If the opponent is playing at a less-than-reasonable pace, you can ask them to speed up (or call a judge and have them ask the opponent to speed up), but you can't ask them to rush just because you'd like the score to read 200-[x].

Asking someone to speed up can be seen as bullying or harassment right?
If you think they are slow playing, you can call a judge, there are a gamut of factors that could be impeding their speed of play.
I wouldn’t play swarms myself for this reason. Pretty sure any game I played would go down to final salvo after 5 turns in 75 minutes.

If they're already playing at a reasonable pace they have no obligation to rush things. Trying to go too fast can result in sloppy movement, knocking ships and obstacles, etc.

I've also seen players try to make their opponent miss triggers (or overlook sloppy play or rule breaking) by constantly pressuring their opponent to rush, so pushing someone for speed when they're playing at a normal pace could be seen as a bit of a jerk move.

Ok.

I need bulk killer.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ok.

I need bulk killer.

Bulk (mass of ships) does not necessarily mean punch. Yes flying 6-8 ships take time. and in this game time is relative. Just because player a is flying a mass of ships does not mean that time is on their side all the time. I am a sometime swarm player and know this.

you do not necessarily need a bulk killer. Use that time against them. Fly better. get in. Get points. Maiming is good a kills are better. try not to give up points. get out and use that time and maneuverability against that cumbersome list.

I lost a 75 min tourney game flying a swarm list vs vader soontir inq list on the last round of combat 2012-188. 1/2 points of a vulture.

I would definitely slow down if someone asked me to speed up.

4 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ok.

I need bulk killer.

Try drinking a glass of water with lemon juice before bedtime, every night.

6 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Let's say you're playing something that is either so bulky that realistically most games end up with a lot on the table (sinker swarm, 5Ys, 4BZ, 4Resistance joust) or even a list with aces that run. What are the guidelines/rules for asking a player to speed up?

Is it ok to say: This archetype is known to have leftover ships on the table 90% of the time, please increase your speed of play?

Assume they aren't playing horribly slow and are well within the bounds of respectful play. Is it possible to ask for a speed up anyway?

The list being likely to go to time isn't a reason to ask for a speed-up, only the pace of play procedure is.

If it is the wrong kind of list get the guy in trouble for "slow play" "exploiting a stalemate condition." Perhaps you'll be able to keep the list out of the right TO's tourney entirely. 😉

9 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ok.

I need bulk killer.

I played a few swarms at LVO and only had a problem with a 5 ship swarm player playing slow. The way you mitigate without Judge interference is put them on the defensive immediately. Proton Torps from afar, Prockets, DBS-404 with APT's, etc. Fast/maneuverable ship with one time High offense can drop or 1/2 point a ship.

12 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Let's say you're playing something that is either so bulky that realistically most games end up with a lot on the table (sinker swarm, 5Ys, 4BZ, 4Resistance joust) or even a list with aces that run. What are the guidelines/rules for asking a player to speed up?

Is it ok to say: This archetype is known to have leftover ships on the table 90% of the time, please increase your speed of play?

Assume they aren't playing horribly slow and are well within the bounds of respectful play. Is it possible to ask for a speed up anyway?

if they are playing at a reasonable speed then its not okay to rush them. rushing them could be seen as trying to panic them or give you advantage, which is unsporting and rude, possibly even cheating.

If it seems like they are deliberately slowing down for advantage then they're cheating.

Personally I never think its apropriate to hassle someone unless you think theyre behaviour is poor or cheating, because we're all playing for fun. the win isnt worth souring the game if youre opponent is well meaning.

Put another way: Regen, high agility, low attack, swarms, running away, upgrade spam, complicated abilities, combos, repositioning, rerrolls and many more things litrrally slow the game down. that doesnt mean you can scold your opponents for using those parts of the game in their play. mathematically the fastest play would be a low count of glass cannon jousters on both sides flying straight at eachother, so anything else could be seen as "slowing the game down". but most of us fly something different which is what makes it fun. its irritating to see 8 ships move 1 at a time then barrel roll, but thats the game sometimes

Socially, I don't.

I'd rather let me opponent have the time they want to make the move they are sure of. And if that means I sip my beer, cool.

In tournaments, I don't.

I'd rather we win or lose on our best thought out moves. So I expect to give, as I get, as I give.

Sadly, there's not much you can do to objectively prove someone is slow playing anyway, so... Realistically what do you do? Instead I just point it out to them that I am of the belief that they may be intentionally slow playing, and that it's not respected. Their reaction will either confirm or deny my belief, and I'll just verbally jab at them on the subject until they step up their game. 🤗 ❤️ All's fair in love and war after all 😁

4 hours ago, Jyico said:

I played a few swarms at LVO and only had a problem with a 5 ship swarm player playing slow. The way you mitigate without Judge interference is put them on the defensive immediately. Proton Torps from afar, Prockets, DBS-404 with APT's, etc. Fast/maneuverable ship with one time High offense can drop or 1/2 point a ship.

Note as someone who's been testing against this for at least 12 games or so, PTs are too expensive to gain the joust advantage vs generic bulk.

Yes it might work against 5SFs from afar, but against other things. Say 4BZ.

There's two answers here.

Casual; Against most people I average 9-10 rounds or so. But one player I play with has a high positive yet passive way of playing at a faster clip. He just says with a smile, "My dials are down" and that makes me want to play faster, as he makes it fun.

We average 12 to 14 rounds typically, which I love, because it means more x-wing. If one of us makes a mistake with a manuever that is pretty apparent and not as a result of a block or board agency, we just allow the intended manuever to get reps versus the best a list has to offer. Same thing with reasonable action choices.

Competition; If playing competitively in an OP event it's certainly different. I'd just ask the person if they enjoy usually playing faster or slower games, give them my own answer of "faster" in a friendly way, and smile and say "maybe we can meet in the middle for pace of play a bit." I'd think that would be a kind prompt.

If not receptive or fail to pick up on the subtle hint, and I'm ahead on points, I'd mention the current score to give them urgency. If I'm behind, I'd then take note of time remaining, then say something aloud to the effect of "hm, 20 minutes remaining, 4 to 5 minutes a round, looks like we have reasonably 5 rounds or so left. Guess I need to make up some ground to give you a challenge!" I'd make sure to smile genuinely and be pleasant.

Then if they don't take the hint or resist, I'd call a judge.

My two cents, cheers.

On 2/12/2020 at 12:55 AM, Ysenhal said:

If they're already playing at a reasonable pace they have no obligation to rush things. Trying to go too fast can result in sloppy movement, knocking ships and obstacles, etc.

I've also seen players try to make their opponent miss triggers (or overlook sloppy play or rule breaking) by constantly pressuring their opponent to rush, so pushing someone for speed when they're playing at a normal pace could be seen as a bit of a jerk move.

This has happened. Kinda fraked me out, so I threw down a 1-straight and lost

Exploding proton bombs make swarms player faster...also, that waiting music from Jeopardy.

18 hours ago, Roller of blanks said:

This has happened. Kinda fraked me out, so I threw down a 1-straight and lost

Next time this happens: set down everything in your hands, rest your hands on the table, lean in deep while looking into their eyes, and say in your rock star voice real slow like, "I'll let you know when I'm ready."

Really, you put in the work to show up and play YOUR game. Don't let some one take that from you.