Hey Everybody,

IMO these will be the main hitters for the HS. One has a lot of health and hits hard, the other is going to have a crazy *** bid.
What are you going to take to counter these bad boys of HS?

I am looking at FO, but wave 6 still hasn’t arrived at my LGS, so don’t know yet.

Droids

1 hour ago, Archangelspiv said:

One has a lot of health and hits hard, the other is going to have a crazy *** bid

Boba/Fenn hits at least as hard 5X does. 5X is throwing a bunch of single-modded 3-die attacks, but boba Fenn will be hitting you with a double modded 4-die and 5-die attack each turn.

If you want to beat 5X, you need to have a solution for surviving their joust - either avoid it, init-kill one, or have strong defensive capabilities (and then block/disrupt the Xs). If you want to beat boba Fenn, you need to lay a lot of hurt into boba and get him off the board. Fenn can be trapped and killed.

First order are in a great place with Kylo and the TIE/fo. Both are very resilient and pilots like scorch and TN let you hit really hard

Is boba Fenn or bofrost strictly better? Or about equal?

(*Ducks)

I've been toying around with Fenn + Bounty Hunter (generic firespray) w/ bomb + ???.

I also like droids (worked well for me in LVO) and I chewed up most bobas by spacing out my droids into waves, so not all were in range 1 at the same time, so boba had trouble jumping over/through me.

You know what I use to counter boba and 5x? Dutch with proton torpedoes. He can help you initiative kill and X-wing, and if you position him right, he can put the hurt on fenn. And at 53 points, he fits into almost any rebel squad.

2 PerCo, CC Bounty Hunters and an Outmanouvre Skull. Bait them. Kite them. Kill them at R2/3.

But the real counter is dials and obstacle placement.

Literally anything with outmanouvre. They hate it!

5 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Is boba Fenn or bofrost strictly better? Or about equal?

(*Ducks)

BoFrost is better. it has more flexibility. Plus one unlucky round or round of dice for Fenn really hampers the Boba Fenn list.

@Blail Blerg

I have played against Boba/Fenn and while tough it is beatable.

BoFrost interesting enough I have met the creator of the list @Dalli and played against him and the BoFrost list prior to the recent Hyperspace and points change. Dalli went undefeated, winning the hyper space tourney (26 players). Needless to say Dalli crushed my swarm list. Two well placed proton bombs really hurts a swarm list, he lost Frost but was still more than able to table me.

Both Dalli and Timo both fly this list extraordinarily well. Timo went undefeated 12-0 to win the UK SOS.

The current iteration of the BoFrost list for Hyperspace format has kept the meat of the list intact and it is therefore still a power house. However if the list is not flown well as with most lists things can go south real quick.

It's unfortunate and sad that every thread is always "what card do I bring to counter X" and not "what in-game decisions should I make" when that's the actually useful question.

25 minutes ago, svelok said:

It's unfortunate and sad that every thread is always "what card do I bring to counter X" and not "what in-game decisions should I make" when that's the actually useful question.

Since we all have list builders and lists are simple to paste, it is easy to talk about lists. Strategy & tactics are harder to discuss outside of playing and watching a game.
Do you have tactical advise?

I'd say Boba Fenn is nigh impossible to talk about tactically, since you have to respond to what they do. They're very flexible and can just react to whatever you do. It's a game that has to be played there and then. But don't walk into R1.

5X is fairly standard though. Stay at range to prevent shots from the back markers. Lead them through the obstacles to try and isolate them and take advantage of their turnarounds. You need to be cautious and plink until you're ahead on points and can opt in or out as the situation demands. Obviously not that simple, since a smart 5X player will also know this and adjust according to your positions and options. They totally don't have to form up and will negotiate the field easily if you make yourself obvious.

Also, lists did not carry players to the top tables at MKO. Top play did. There were a lot of different archetypes on display at the sharp end. My list could have beaten any of them, but not in my hands.

1 hour ago, Pewpewpew BOOM said:

Do you have tactical advise?

Not really, because I'm bad.

But if you look at the lists that beat Boba or 5X over the weekend, it was the same lists you'd fly vs anything else.

But even reviews of random people's own lost games vs those lists would probably be more practically useful than "counter" listing advice.

When FFG gets rid of most i6 aces, and pre move upgrades and abilities then i5 dial changer ship will rule the roost.

Im not sure why they get rid of supernatural reflexes, precog, adv sensors, Saesee Tin for republic, and even seasoned navigator crew, and keep Slave 1. Its like they purposely wanted this.

Oh well, only 5 more months of Boba meta.

Could be worse, they could of released harpoon missiles.

10 hours ago, Estarriol said:

Literally anything with outmanouvre. They hate it!

Intimidation is cheaper, goes with blocking, works on all your attacks, and doesn't care about their arcs. Boba hates rolling 1 green die for a full round. He can reroll it all day but will never get 2 evade results.

That said, Slave I makes it super easy to opt out of a block, so you have to plan carefully. It's a lot of health behind a lot of mods, but long-range focus-fire still works. Both of them hate R2. Make them fear the block so they have to be conservative with their maneuvers, then trap them at R2-3.

14 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ducks

That. Also bring ducks. Lots of ducks. Definitely a hard counter to Boba Fett.

5 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

5X is fairly standard though. Stay at range to prevent shots from the back markers. Lead them through the obstacles to try and isolate them and take advantage of their turnarounds. You need to be cautious and plink until you're ahead on points and can opt in or out as the situation demands. Obviously not that simple, since a smart 5X player will also know this and adjust according to your positions and options. They totally don't have to form up and will negotiate the field easily if you make yourself obvious.

They can also close really quick to force an engagement if their player is willing to drop to 2 reds to boost>red focus (closed foils).

4 hours ago, svelok said:

Not really, because I'm bad.

But if you look at the lists that beat Boba or 5X over the weekend, it was the same lists you'd fly vs anything else.

But even reviews of random people's own lost games vs those lists would probably be more practically useful than "counter" listing advice.

I think you have mistaken a discussion on what’s in people’s heads when planning for a large tournament for list advice.
Net listing by bad players never works. I started the thread because I was curious what goes on in other people’s minds when creating a list for a large tournament. I prefer to fly what I like to fly and go from there. At the last Australian SoS I flew Kylo,Blackout and Scorch. I like to fly Silencers but I knew Jedi where going to be everywhere so I built for being second player. I went 5-1 day one so I didn’t do too bad.

As a list builder and tweaker, I spend easily 5-6 games tweaking my own versions of my lists. Sometimes a change in upgrade can make a rather huge different in flight pattern. But over the 5-6 games I also jotted down about 3-4 different changes of play I needed to do to beat certain boogeymen squads.

I think I try and talk about tactics along with list-building as much as possible. People have heard me talk about flight patterns and focus rule among other topics.

Droids

5Xs just jousted Duncan. Boba just turned into Duncans swarm. These are good players in top cut. Droids want nothing more than the enemy coming right into them. They need to stay together to share calcs, and when the enemy obliges, well, as a droid flyer you are exactly where you want the fight to be.

Most people dont know how to fight droid swarms. Been seeing it for awhile. So, im probably taking droids.

13 hours ago, wurms said:

Droids

5Xs just jousted Duncan. Boba just turned into Duncans swarm. These are good players in top cut. Droids want nothing more than the enemy coming right into them. They need to stay together to share calcs, and when the enemy obliges, well, as a droid flyer you are exactly where you want the fight to be.

Most people dont know how to fight droid swarms. Been seeing it for awhile. So, im probably taking droids.

would you say, as droids you should really avoid splitting and instead go all in to try and block and kill box one thing with the whole swarm, then move on?

5X isn't that bad. 4 fat T-70 is worse imo, despite the loss of red dice.

The Will To Win

33 minutes ago, tampermagnitude said:

The Will To Win

That's a first edition upgrade.

5 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

would you say, as droids you should really avoid splitting and instead go all in to try and block and kill box one thing with the whole swarm, then move on?

In playing a friend's Boba/Fenn list, we talked a little about what to do to counter it afterwards - he was of the opinion that you need to commit to Boba, as I've seen elsewhere on the forums, with the swarm. The problem is that when you do that, you give Boba all the passive mods he wants, as well as some active ones. You need to be prepared to take some heavy losses to the swarm if your dice aren't behaving, so work around that. At the time, I was flying a six-ship swarm with DBS-32C and five tougher Vultures. I made some adjustments after that, with the knowledge that if I'm flying 32C, I'm going to want more ships. The revised version is a 7-Ship swarm (5 Vultures, 2 Hyenas) that bulks up the Hyenas a bit and plans for disposable Vultures. I think, though, that if I were to use a swarm against that list, I'd think more about an 0-66 + 5 Vultures model to give it some staying power to survive against Fenn creeping in from the back and blasting away.