6 minutes ago, RStan said:

Man....that would be really sad and plummet my hype for these units.

Really? Pathfinder offense with better defense for the same price? Sign me up.

Edit: just want to point out, WW with surge has the same average hits a R without surge, but has double the ceiling and average crits. 4 of these average double the hits of a base B1 unit.

3 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

Really? Pathfinder offense with better defense for the same price? Sign me up.

Bit of a newer player, talked a bit with my more experience friends and they said the math on WW is slightly better than 1B so not as bad as I thought.

1 hour ago, RStan said:

So I might be squinting/zooming in SUPER hard here, but just above the poison token that overlaps the gun's dice, you can see a tiny sliver of black dice peaking out over top of it and that lines up for that gun to have more than one dice. Maybe black/white?

It's certainly possible, although black/white at range three is excessive. White/White is still real good though. So long as it's a minimum black with surge I'll be happy with it.

Anyone noticed Cad and Padme have 4 instead of 3 Command Cards?

Oh yeah, they do in the spread. Wonder if they actually have 4 or if it's related to the Divulge mechanic.

On 2/12/2020 at 1:43 PM, Tirion said:

Pathfinders are still the only non Commander box in the game that if you buy 2 you have minis you cannot use in completive play

Which rule states you cannot take multiple Bistans/Paos?

You can't use multiples of uniques. A dot next to their name indicates that they are unique.

9 hours ago, buckero0 said:

I don't get the point of P 2 s as well.

But the arc troopers make sense clones don't have a cheap activation that can do something

Exactly. The biggest problem I'm having with GAR, is the redundancy of their units. P1s and P2s carry a very similar role. Arc Troopers are now just another unit that does the same thing, but for a steeper price (not talking about the sniper squad).

I then look at the CIS and every unit they released is fundamentally different. B1s are dirt cheap. B2s are multi-wound / close range at a higher price. Commando Droids are a higher priced unit that will probably have high damage potential with loads of options (similar to every GAR trooper released).

9 hours ago, RStan said:

My bad, thanks for the clarification. I must've squinted incorrectly yesterday and that got ingrained in my head for the GAR snipers being cheaper. I've only opened up the builder for CIS and didn't see the numbers again for GAR. Either way, strike teams are going no where and mechanically need a RR update to help promote usage of any other special units so it's now an auto spam snipers for activation advantages. The first thing I saw most people do building lists was hit duplicate on CIS and GAR snipers for 3.

I made the same mistake yesterday. I believe someone had posted the wrong point values for both squads and then Tabletop Admiral had posted the correct pricing. Definitely agree. Strike teams are really good right now, but the new tanks may solve this problem.

I definitely will be taking x2-3 Droid Commandos snipers in my lists. They seem to be really good (even without pierce). 2 red with surge to hit is incredible.

9 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I'd rather spend 52 points on a naked Phase 1 squad than a two man strike team personally.

Depends. Republic now has the option to exceed 9 activations with these strike teams.

1 minute ago, R3dReVenge said:

Depends. Republic now has the option to exceed 9 activations with these strike teams.

I suppose if the Corps unit slot is already full but in my opinion that's a slightly different situation.

9 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

I might save some of this for a thread if you'll do that, but calling ARCs "the same" is a mistake. They don't even have the saboteur option (no tokens in their spread), and we don't know what Echo and Fives do. They don't just add new weapons, they also have other abilities. ARCs also can add Jump, and they have basically the combo platter of weapons - if you get them up close they can unload with hand-blasters, but they still retain their normal 1-3 rifles for regular shooting so it's not a B2/Fleet/Scout situation. While they can operate similar to how sniper teams have in the past (and the DC-15x is good for it) they also can have completely different strategies and options. EDIT: Oh, we also know Echo and Fives look like they have extra HP too, which is different.

The ARCs and BXs also have a different defensive profile. Both the Commandos and Scout Troopers were white saves with Low Profile - their obvious defensive intent was to maximize cover (or take Duck & Cover to get heavy cover in an open field) but that relies on cover so competitive players hate it even though cover/terrain will only get more detailed and important as the game goes on - ARCs and BXs have red saves with Impervious, letting you just be more bold and try and take hits.

We can discuss this more in detail tomorrow when I have time to write my thoughts. What I meant was they feel the same when compared to P1s and P2s, or they fill the same role.

I heard that Echo and Fives can be taken on P1 / P2 squads aswell, but they come in the ARC kit (so if they are good, why not take them on a cheaper squad? We don't have this answer yet, but just speculation).

Remember ARC troopers need to purchase a gear to give them the jump ability. This can be purchased by P1s and P2s, so I'm missing the point how this makes them unique? The gear is also quite expensive, I don't think 10 points is worth it especially when your squads are already really expensive.

My problem with the whole jump forward plan is that your opponent knows that ARCs have this. They aren't going to let them get into close range. If you sit afar and shoot with them at a distance, then your opponent will focus the ARCs down before targeting your weaker, cheaper squads. A P1 squad with the DC-15 does the ~about the amount of damage as a ARC squad with the DC-15x, but for far cheaper (82 points vs 103). Another thing to remember is that a P1 with the Z-6 at 18 inches deals similar damage as an ARC squad within 12 inches, but is far cheaper.

To me, we will see snipers being played in a similar manner. It's just going to be much harder to take down these snipers than GCW snipers. I do think the BX-Commandos are designed very well. Can't wait to see them in action.

9 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Give them Offensive Push or Hunter then. Commando droids really don't benefit as much from their training slot since D and C is useless, Endurance isn't great and without token sharing Overwatch is really niche. I could see Tenacity, but not on a strike team.

Didn't even think of this. Definitely something to toy around with. Though, Is 58 points really worth it? The more and more I think about it, I bet the GCW snipers will get another price increase.

8 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

Statistically speaking, unless you are rolling 9+ attack dice, Crit 1 is better than Surge -> hit in that your statistically only likely to roll 1 or less surges on 8 or less dice. and seeing as how a crit will get through cover it really is a better ability to have.

Except we can't assume the statistical average every time. There will be cases where a double surge is rolled and surge to hit is a better option (this has happened to be several times with my clones). Crit 1 is good in the scenario you present, but in the scenario you present, you must be shooting at a unit in heavy cover (hoping you roll a crit)? Wouldn't it be more wise to shoot as a unit in light cover, or that is out in the open?

8 hours ago, RStan said:

So I might be squinting/zooming in SUPER hard here, but just above the poison token that overlaps the gun's dice, you can see a tiny sliver of black dice peaking out over top of it and that lines up for that gun to have more than one dice. Maybe black/white?

If this is true, then Droid Commandos will definitely >>>> ARC troopers. They already seem like the superior choice, and now they have a better ranged attack. Good god 🙄

P1's and P2's can not take jetpacks. The card says that only Arc troopers and Captain Rex can take this.

30 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

Didn't even think of this. Definitely something to toy around with. Though, Is 58 points really worth it? The more and more I think about it, I bet the GCW snipers will get another price increase.

Here's the thing: You're maxing your corp with the CIS even if it's naked B1s as 36 points is a steal for a cheap activation. The next cheapest activation is the strike team. Even at 58 points, that's still cheaper than the 100 point droideka unit which is the next cheapest unit after the corp.

I'm excited to try the Commando Droids with the Shields, Offensive Push, and maybe HQ Uplink since I've got plenty of reasons to recover at that point. Expensive, but I'm a fan of running high cost SF units.

Can you spend multiple aim tokens to trigger lethal more than once?

6 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

I heard that Echo and Fives can be taken on P1 / P2 squads aswell, but they come in the ARC kit (so if they are good, why not take them on a cheaper squad? We don't have this answer yet, but just speculation).

If you take them on a more expensive squad then they come on a better chassis for the same price. Imagine choosing to add an Imperial Officer to either a Stormtrooper unit or a Deathtrooper unit. This is assuming they don't have some sort of text on the card like the jetpacks do that makes them cheaper when placed on a Corps unit.

Quote

Remember ARC troopers need to purchase a gear to give them the jump ability. This can be purchased by P1s and P2s, so I'm missing the point how this makes them unique? The gear is also quite expensive, I don't think 10 points is worth it especially when your squads are already really expensive.

Where are you getting the impression jetpacks can be take by P1s and P2s?

13 hours ago, Gii1 said:

Anyone noticed Cad and Padme have 4 instead of 3 Command Cards?

The image of the back of their boxes says there's only 3 command cards, so not sure what the extra card is?

8 hours ago, lologrelol said:

Which rule states you cannot take multiple Bistans/Paos?

The fact they have a unique dot on their card. You can only have one Bistan and one Pao, maximum, across any legal number of pathfinder units.

7 hours ago, DFocke said:

P1's and P2's can not take jetpacks. The card says that only Arc troopers and Captain Rex can take this.

I missed this!

But I still don't think it's worth 10 points. 10 points for jump 2 seems terrible!

49 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

I missed this!

But I still don't think it's worth 10 points. 10 points for jump 2 seems terrible!

Seems amazing to me. If it was only Jump 1 I would still consider it, but Jump 2 is outstanding.

9 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

If this is true, then Droid Commandos will definitely >>>> ARC troopers. They already seem like the superior choice, and now they have a better ranged attack. Good god 🙄

I've had my expectations tamed a bit knowing now that white dice have a small black outline on them so it could also be 2 White dice which are slightly better than 1 black according to my more experienced friends running the math.

38 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Seems amazing to me. If it was only Jump 1 I would still consider it, but Jump 2 is outstanding.

Can you explain why you think it's "amazing"? With that adjective, I would think that the is an auto-include.

My thoughts: It makes an already expensive squad more expensive when it's DPS is almost identical to a P1 squad. At that point the squad would cost 30+ more points AND isn't even a corps option.

12 minutes ago, RStan said:

I've had my expectations tamed a bit knowing now that white dice have a small black outline on them so it could also be 2 White dice which are slightly better than 1 black according to my more experienced friends running the math.

Good point. I suspect it will be 1 black though.

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

But I still don't think it's worth 10 points. 10 points for jump 2 seems terrible!

While I don't think it is an auto-include, it can be very useful and very good. You must play on very different tables than I do then. Take a look at the LVO tables here, which are close to what I have at my FLGS:

Personally, having the ability to jump over or onto impassable, LoS blocking terrain rather than run around it can be a huge increase in mobility, and survivability since you avoid being shot before you choose to commit. It also allows you to put objectives in places that are only easily reachable with Jump. So either moving supply crates, or reaching out of the way moisture evaporators.

Just now, Caimheul1313 said:

While I don't think it is an auto-include, it can be very useful and very good. You must play on very different tables than I do then. Take a look at the LVO tables here, which are close to what I have at my FLGS:

Personally, having the ability to jump over or onto impassable, LoS blocking terrain rather than run around it can be a huge increase in mobility, and survivability since you avoid being shot before you choose to commit. It also allows you to put objectives in places that are only easily reachable with Jump. So either moving supply crates, or reaching out of the way moisture evaporators.

My tables are fairly clustered with terrain. This is a good point, maybe it works out, but I just don't think it's worth the price. You are paying over 100 points for a squad that has the same damage as a P1 squad. It just doesn't resonate with me. Even having a mobility advantage. We will see how it plays out in competitive play.

18 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

My tables are fairly clustered with terrain. This is a good point, maybe it works out, but I just don't think it's worth the price. You are paying over 100 points for a squad that has the same damage as a P1 squad. It just doesn't resonate with me. Even having a mobility advantage. We will see how it plays out in competitive play.

Why 100 points? I'd honestly consider running a squad with just a Jetpacks for 82 as a flanker. It's got decent damage output without the heavy weapon option in my opinion (4b 4w at 1-2). I've had good luck with Fleets throwing worse dice with worse maneuverability, survivability, keywords, etc etc.

This is predicated on Ascension cables not providing some bonkers movement benefit for cheaper (albeit only once per game in practice most of the time).

Edit: Maybe 87 for adding in a Frag grenades to give surge->crit at range 1...

54 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

Can you explain why you think it's "amazing"? With that adjective, I would think that the is an auto-include.

My thoughts: It makes an already expensive squad more expensive when it's DPS is almost identical to a P1 squad. At that point the squad would cost 30+ more points AND isn't even a corps option.

Good point. I suspect it will be 1 black though.

It is most certainly two dice. Notice the difference between the top of the melee dice diamond and the top border, and compare that to the distance between the covered range portion. There is about two times the amount of gap on the left side as compared to the right.

3 hours ago, bwingstrike said:

The image of the back of their boxes says there's only 3 command cards, so not sure what the extra card is?

Perhaps it is a faction-specific generic command card like the GCW factions got with their Specialist Expansions?

4 hours ago, NeverTellMeTheOdds said:

Can you spend multiple aim tokens to trigger lethal more than once?

As far as we know, yes

10 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

My problem with the whole jump forward plan is that your opponent knows that ARCs have this. They aren't going to let them get into close range. If you sit afar and shoot with them at a distance, then your opponent will focus the ARCs down before targeting your weaker, cheaper squads. A P1 squad with the DC-15 does the ~about the amount of damage as a ARC squad with the DC-15x, but for far cheaper (82 points vs 103). Another thing to remember is that a P1 with the Z-6 at 18 inches deals similar damage as an ARC squad within 12 inches, but is far cheaper.

The thing with the ARCs is they give the Republic a huge amount of options they don't currently have. The Jump packs give them some mobility they are currently lacking, on a 2-courage unit. You could potentially run 3x 2-man strike teams and Rex with Jump for objective grabbing, or even run full 5-man squads with the generic sniper and Jump. The fact that ARC's inherently have Scout 2 and can take Recon Intel gives them even more options.

I was going to go double-check some info on the card spread on the Asmodee webstore but they took the card spread off all 4 new unit pages.