52 minutes ago, daggertx said:

Citation needed for Iran.

Read the news.

"in a socialist country like the Empire"

3 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

"in a socialist country like the Empire"

What you didn’t know they had universal healthcare in the Empire?

11 hours ago, Eoen said:

The Nimitz would cost considerably less if it was built in a socialist country like the Empire. Also look at Nazi Germanys impressive weapons research programs, their basic research ideology is still superior in terms of results vs capital spent (in terms of embracing failure in scientific research not talking their morals).

We (the US) currently vastly out spend the competition (bu so much of it is waste) and they (Russia, China, and even Iran) are pulling ahead of us in many military technologies, like fighters, missiles, radar and SAMs.

Also Star Wars factory’s are highly automated, the supply chain being the biggest limiting factor.

The Empire is more fascist than socialist. They're also pretty **** corrupt and have private companies build their stuff.

Nazi reseatch programs were pretty **** ineffective as well. Their general anti-intellectual stance together with their rather divided focus meant they didn't really get much done. Their rocket program for instance cost as much as the Manhattan project and killed more laborers than enemies. Not really the most effective use of resources.

2 hours ago, Darth Revenant said:

The Empire is more fascist than socialist. They're also pretty **** corrupt and have private companies build their stuff.

Nazi reseatch programs were pretty **** ineffective as well. Their general anti-intellectual stance together with their rather divided focus meant they didn't really get much done. Their rocket program for instance cost as much as the Manhattan project and killed more laborers than enemies. Not really the most effective use of resources.

Nazi stands for National Socialists. They are Socialists.

33 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Nazi stands for National Socialists. They are Socialists.

Well, other than not having one singly socialistic policy...

The name is more about the image they wanted to project thanwhat they actually were about.

40 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Nazi stands for National Socialists. They are Socialists.

And the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a Democracy... because if you slap a title on it, then it must be true 🙄

48 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Nazi stands for National Socialists. They are Socialists.

That's some Fox News level propaganda you're spewing there.

54 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Nazi stands for National Socialists. They are Socialists.

Yeah, except they weren't. Even if they did have it in the name. They were more racist fascists and that's pretty much it.

1 hour ago, Stan Fresh said:

That's some Fox News level propaganda you're spewing there.

No it is not. I suggest you actually read some history. Because that is literally what Nazi Stands for.

1 hour ago, Darth Revenant said:

Yeah, except they weren't. Even if they did have it in the name. They were more racist fascists and that's pretty much it.

Oh they were socialist if ypu actually look at there economic policies

At the risk of turning this into a High School level civics class:

In socialism: Public or collective ownership of the means of production.
In fascism: Government ownership of the means of production.

These are economic systems in direct polar opposition.

Totalitarian governments lay claim to several of these systems including capitalism.

Both the Nazis and the Galactic Empire were totalitarian regimes that practiced fascism. Neither were socialist.

On 2/15/2020 at 5:00 PM, Daeglan said:

No it is not. I suggest you actually read some history. Because that is literally what Nazi Stands for.

Evidently, the sum total of your knowledge of German history is the name of the Nazi party.

I can't quite do that well, only having received years of schooling on Nazi Germany in history, literature, ethics, and social sciences classes. What with, you know, having gone to school.

In Germany.

3 minutes ago, Mistervimes said:

At the risk of turning this into a High School level civics class:

In socialism: Public or collective ownership of the means of production.
In fascism: Government ownership of the means of production.

These are economic systems in direct polar opposition.

Totalitarian governments lay claim to several of these systems including capitalism.

Both the Nazis and the Galactic Empire were totalitarian regimes that practiced fascism. Neither were socialist.

So tell me the practical difference between the government owning the means of production and the public owni g the means of production given that what actually happens is the government runs the means of production. I see no real world difference between the 2 given the same people run both.

It is kind of l8ke the difference between socialism and communism.they are different on paper but the reality is the same people end up running both.

Just now, Daeglan said:

So tell me the practical difference between the government owning the means of production and the public owni g the means of production given that what actually happens is the government runs the means of production. I see no real world difference between the 2 given the same people run both.

Fascists subsidized privately owned business that could practice private initiative so long as it benefited the state. In Socialism the means of production is controlled by the workers. Germany, Italy, and Spain during the second world war are practical examples.

There is no real world practical example of a purely socialist state. They've never existed. Socialist programs exist in various world governments. Using the collective wealth (through taxation) to benefit society. The internet, roads, healthcare, state defense, price controls on utilities, subsidies for the poor, and even bank bailouts are all examples.

No practical examples of pure capitalism exists. What most people call captitalism is consumerism. Consumerism is present in capitalism, fascism, and socialism.

I recommend "World Fascism: A Historical Encyclopedia, Vol. 1" by Paul Jackson and Cyprian Blamires for better understanding. Fascists opposed both international socialism and free market capitalism.

5 minutes ago, Mistervimes said:

Fascists subsidized privately owned business that could practice private initiative so long as it benefited the state. In Socialism the means of production is controlled by the workers. Germany, Italy, and Spain during the second world war are practical examples.

There is no real world practical example of a purely socialist state. They've never existed. Socialist programs exist in various world governments. Using the collective wealth (through taxation) to benefit society. The internet, roads, healthcare, state defense, price controls on utilities, subsidies for the poor, and even bank bailouts are all examples.

No practical examples of pure capitalism exists. What most people call captitalism is consumerism. Consumerism is present in capitalism, fascism, and socialism.

I recommend "World Fascism: A Historical Encyclopedia, Vol. 1" by Paul Jackson and Cyprian Blamires for better understanding. Fascists opposed both international socialism and free market capitalism.

There is no real practical difference between a business owner having to ask for every decision and the government just dictating what will be done.

13 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

It is kind of l8ke the difference between socialism and communism.they are different on paper but the reality is the same people end up running both.

I agree with you to a point. But you've left out capitalism, mercantilism, and every other economic system. On paper they say one thing, but how the government system (different than economic) executes that economic system is what reality is. The point being that no purely socialist nation exists, just as their are no pure capitalist states. Economics is often conflated with government systems. All real examples of economic systems contain consumerism (which places the greatest value on ownership). All real examples of government systems range between Absolute Authoritarianism and Anarchy.

In reality there are three (some argue four) main types of economies: free market, command, and mixed.

Spoilers: The majority of the world is mixed.

All of these systems share a single flaw:They require money and power to operate. Consequently they attract people who want money and power.

7 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

There is no real practical difference between a business owner having to ask for every decision and the government just dictating what will be done.

Both of those examples are fascism.

In pure socialism the workers decide. That's the difference.

Again, I recommend "World Fascism: A Historical Encyclopedia, Vol. 1" by Paul Jackson and Cyprian Blamires for better understanding of the differences.

2 minutes ago, Mistervimes said:

Both of those examples are fascism.

In pure socialism the workers decide. That's the difference.

except that the workers never actually decide. The workers deciding generally ends up being a puppet show with those in government leadership actually making the decisions.

Just now, Daeglan said:

except that the workers never actually decide. The workers deciding generally ends up being a puppet show with those in government leadership actually making the decisions.

That's execution by a government system, not an economic system. No practical example of pure socialism has ever been implemented at a national level - and certainly not by the Nazis.

Guys? Is this really necessary? For this thread?

It's an important discussion, but here?

Socialism=bad, Communism=bad, Fascism=bad, Nazis=bad. There, can we move on?

1 minute ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Guys? Is this really necessary? For this thread?

It's an important discussion, but here?

Socialism=bad, Communism=bad, Fascism=bad, Nazis=bad. There, can we move on?

Happy to do so. My copy of S&S is still pending shipping. Monday is a holiday, so unless it goes out today I expect it to ship Tuesday and receive it by Friday.
I personally would like to see vehicles from the new trilogy or "The Mandalorian" era.

5 minutes ago, Mistervimes said:

I personally would like to see vehicles from the new trilogy or "The Mandalorian" era.

I think you'll be out of luck there. The former falls outside the period the other "collection" books have covered, while the latter came about too late for likely inclusion. But there's always hope. And something something built on something.

3 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Well, other than not having one singly socialistic policy...

The name is more about the image they wanted to project thanwhat they actually were about.

National health care, 3 weeks of paid vacations, state works programs, smoking bans, the autobahn, state direction of industry, youth indoctrination programs, women’s programs, they where a Green Party (and the Green Party was founded by ex-nazis).

Fascism is a form of socialism and there’s no pure anything once it’s off paper.

Capitalism isn’t an economic system (The free market existed before capitalism) it’s the class of people who run the government.