I recently proposed the idea of a jedi:ronin spec, got largely positive feedback and we spent I think 5 pages of posts debating/revising it until we got to something that I hope is fairly professional in quality and that people will consider using. That iteration can be found in this post..

In that thread I also mentioned the possibility of a jedi librarian as a 6th spec (which got a few likes) and was hoping to go through the same process of debating/revising it...

So... here is a first draft of a jedi:Librarian (please provide feedback)

career skills: computers, knowledge(education), knowledge(lore), medicine

(Medicine is up for debate)

*No* FR prerequisite

Researcher. Well Read. Grit. Secret lore

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Respected scholar --- Fact check. As the force will it --- Secrets of the jedi

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Researcher --- If it's not in the library --- Secret Lore. Transmogrify

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Mental Fortress. --- Stroke of Genius. --- Knowledge is power--- Forbidden knowledge

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Dedication --- anatomy lessons. Force Rating ‐-- Secrets of the jedi (improved)

Fact check: can oppose decision checks made against the character with knowledge lore instead of discipline, a different knowledge skill can be used at the discretion of the game master on a case by case basis.

If it's not in the library: flip a destiny point to remove despair from a knowledge check.

Forbidden knowledge: (conflict force talent) once per session the character may use darkside force pips without flipping a destiny point or taking strain. They still take conflict for spending darkside pips as normal.

Might want to work in another rank of respected scholar but don't know where I could put it

Perhaps Knowledge (player's choice)* instead of Medicine.

*Unless I'm mistaken, there was precedent for this in another spec, but I can't give a source because I don't remember.

24 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Perhaps Knowledge (player's choice)* instead of Medicine.

*Unless I'm mistaken, there was precedent for this in another spec, but I can't give a source because I don't remember.

The well read talent adds three knowledge skills of the players choice... so I didn't think it was necessary, moreover it would decrease the value of well read.

1 minute ago, EliasWindrider said:

The well read talent adds the knowledge skills of the players choice... so I didn't think it was necessary, moreover it would decrease the value of well read.

Ah, I think I was probably getting confused with the talent then. Nevermind.

3 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Ah, I think I was probably getting confused with the talent then. Nevermind.

Three knowledge skills get added, so with the 2 from spec, that's 5 of them, it I'm not sure how many knowledge skills a librarian's player would want to boost. But this makes the choice meaningful.

7 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Ah, I think I was probably getting confused with the talent then. Nevermind.

Actually, I think it was Republic Representative (away from books at the moment). I remember it was one of the new specs because we had to add one for each knowledge skill in oggdudes

Looking for more feedback on the librarian, "fine as is" is acceptable as is "it needs something but I don't know what" even that would be useful.

At a glance? It looks fine. I'd need to have someone take it and play it out before I could say anything more.

Maybe someone could try playing the librarian spec in a game and then provide feedback.

Really Needs Valuable Facts Improved Valuable Facts and Supreme Valuable facts.

Improved allows you to use Valuable Facts on your next check.

Supreme allows you to use Valuable Facts as a Maneuver once per session.

30 minutes ago, Decorus said:

Really Needs Valuable Facts Improved Valuable Facts and Supreme Valuable facts.

Improved allows you to use Valuable Facts on your next check.

Supreme allows you to use Valuable Facts as a Maneuver once per session.

Padawan has valuable facts, I didn't want to repeat non ranked talents within the jedi career, it doesn't make sense to have improved and supreme without the basic, and I don't know what 3 talents to drop in exchange for them

Drop a researcher and the secrets of the Jedi talents. Those are the signature talents of Padawan Survivor and should stay in that tree only.

9 hours ago, Decorus said:

Drop a researcher and the secrets of the Jedi talents. Those are the signature talents of Padawan Survivor and should stay in that tree only.

That's a non-starter jedi career should have secrets of the jedi, it's important for characters who cross spec into librarian to have access to lightsaber and discipline, and it totally fits the whole secret/forbidden knowledge vibe/theme of the right side of the tree, and they key off of lore which is over the top appropriate to a librarian.

1 hour ago, EliasWindrider said:

That's a non-starter jedi career should have secrets of the jedi, it's important for characters who cross spec into librarian to have access to lightsaber and discipline, and it totally fits the whole secret/forbidden knowledge vibe/theme of the right side of the tree, and they key off of lore which is over the top appropriate to a librarian.

Well secrets of the jedi makes lightsaber a career skill and reduces the difficulty of lightsaber mods. That does not actually fit the theme of what you have here. Other than the name.

13 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Well secrets of the jedi makes lightsaber a career skill and reduces the difficulty of lightsaber mods. That does not actually fit the theme of what you have here. Other than the name.

Jedi and lightsaber goes hand in hand, if it wasn't a jedi spec you might have a point. However besides simply being a jedi spec (and say a sage cross spacing into librarian and gaining lightsaber as a skill that way), the talents key off of knowledge lore (like so much of the tree) which plays to a character being book smart at lightsabers and not being awesome at using them, which is totally appropriate... but paired with anatomy lessons you get the "wait how did **you** do that" moment, with the answer being an academic discourse... so they're not completely hopeless... it's a great stereotype to play to.

36 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Well secrets of the jedi makes lightsaber a career skill and reduces the difficulty of lightsaber mods. That does not actually fit the theme of what you have here. Other than the name.

Just a minor clarification: Secrets of the Jedi helps with lighsaber hilt construction and repair, while Secrets of the Jedi (Improved) helps with lightsaber modding. But the spirit of your point remains.

1 hour ago, EliasWindrider said:

Jedi and lightsaber goes hand in hand, if it wasn't a jedi spec you might have a point. However besides simply being a jedi spec (and say a sage cross spacing into librarian and gaining lightsaber as a skill that way), the talents key off of knowledge lore (like so much of the tree) which plays to a character being book smart at lightsabers and not being awesome at using them, which is totally appropriate... but paired with anatomy lessons you get the "wait how did **you** do that" moment, with the answer being an academic discourse... so they're not completely hopeless... it's a great stereotype to play to.

Except making lightsabers easier to construct is not the schtick of a jedi librarian.

2 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Except making lightsabers easier to construct is not the schtick of a jedi librarian.

Knowing obscure ways to modify crystals is definitely within their schtick

1 hour ago, EliasWindrider said:

Knowing obscure ways to modify crystals is definitely within their schtick

They arent obscure ways. It feels more like you are throwing it in so you dont have to buy another spec.. instead of it actually fitting the schtick.

7 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

They arent obscure ways. It feels more like you are throwing it in so you dont have to buy another spec.. instead of it actually fitting the schtick.

Given that it's not a talent jedi padawans, knight, generals, or masters have access to and it's named secrets of the jedi... it seems pretty obscure.

And I have no plans to take the spec myself... I just think the jedi career should have access to the secrets of the jedi , and if not padawan (something that all jedi knew) then at least something a loremaster knew

1 hour ago, EliasWindrider said:

Given that it's not a talent jedi padawans, knight, generals, or masters have access to and it's named secrets of the jedi... it seems pretty obscure.

And I have no plans to take the spec myself... I just think the jedi career should have access to the secrets of the jedi , and if not padawan (something that all jedi knew) then at least something a loremaster knew

That would be because as the Devs noted you can take these advantages at the temples.

2 hours ago, Daeglan said:

That would be because as the Devs noted you can take these advantages at the temples.

That was a dev suggested house rule not RAW, besides a jedi temple's repository of knowledge is its library, and a librarian is likely the sentient who has internalized the most of that knowledge. And if you listen further into that order 66 episode (126 execute collapse of the republic) , to the equipment section (in particular when talking about the lightsaber mod that makes it go boom, starting about 1 hour and 17 minutes in lasting less than 2 minutes) the dev said he took that back, they should have the talent.

To be honest if I was to redo/tweak the padawan spec I'd remove the sense danger and valuable facts talents move beginner's luck to where valuable facts was, then put secrets of the jedi where see ense danger was and secrets of the jedi (improved) where beginner's luck officially is (so that secrets of the jedi and improved are in the same places as in the padawan survivor tree which had the same layout as padawan). Removing valuable facts from Padawan means it could put in librarian without duplicating a non ranked talent in the jedi career... then with secrets of the jedi and improved moved from librarian to padawan I could drop a rank of researcher and do as @Decorus suggested with valuable facts, improved and supreme. But I'd have to shuffle/redo the librarian tree layout. That would be the optimal solution if altering padawan were allowed.

Full disclosure... doing that would make the jedi:padawan/knight/ronin/master one of my favorite combos... I normally deliberately to avoid creating combos that I think are wow.

Here's a version like @Decorus suggested but I've moved valuable facts from padawan to librarian to prevent duplication of a non ranked talent within the jedi career and moved secrets of the jedi and improved to the Padawan tree in the same place they occur in the padawan survivor tree which has an identical layout.

Librarian

career skills: computers, knowledge(education), knowledge(lore), medicine

(Medicine is up for debate)

*No* FR prerequisite

Grit Respected scholar Secret lore Well Read

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Supreme valuable facts Researcher --- valuable facts --- Secret Lore

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improved valuable facts --- If it's not in the library --- Fact check As the force wills it

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Mental Fortress --- Stroke of Genius Force Rating ---- Knowledge is power

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Dedication --- anatomy lessons Transmogrify -‐- Forbidden knowledge

Fact check: can oppose decision checks made against the character with knowledge lore instead of discipline, a different knowledge skill can be used at the discretion of the game master on a case by case basis.

Improved valuable facts you may use Valuable Facts on your next check.

Supreme valuable facts once per session you may use Valuable Facts as a Maneuver

If it's not in the library: flip a destiny point to remove despair from a knowledge check.

Forbidden knowledge: (conflict force talent) once per session the character may use darkside force pips without flipping a destiny point or taking strain. They still take conflict for spending darkside pips as normal.

Padawan

Career skills: coordination, knowledge(education), mechanics, vigilance

Parry Toughened quick draw grit

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Toughened ---- reflect ---- well rounded ---- secrets of the jedi

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Parry ---- Learning opportunity Beginner's luck ---- Force rating

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Reflect ---- grit something to prove --- adaptable

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Improved secrets of the jedi --- temple training --- sincerest flattery ---- dedication

21 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Here's a version like @Decorus suggested but I've moved valuable facts from padawan to librarian to prevent duplication of a non ranked talent within the jedi career and moved secrets of the jedi and improved to the Padawan tree in the same place they occur in the padawan survivor tree which has an identical layout.

Librarian

career skills: computers, knowledge(education), knowledge(lore), medicine

(Medicine is up for debate)

*No* FR prerequisite

Grit Respected scholar Secret lore Well Read

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Supreme valuable facts Researcher --- valuable facts --- Secret Lore

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improved valuable facts --- If it's not in the library --- Fact check As the force wills it

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Mental Fortress --- Stroke of Genius Force Rating ---- Knowledge is power

| | |

Dedication --- anatomy lessons Transmogrify -‐- Forbidden knowledge

Fact check: can oppose decision checks made against the character with knowledge lore instead of discipline, a different knowledge skill can be used at the discretion of the game master on a case by case basis.

Improved valuable facts you may use Valuable Facts on your next check.

Supreme valuable facts once per session you may use Valuable Facts as a Maneuver

If it's not in the library: flip a destiny point to remove despair from a knowledge check.

Forbidden knowledge: (conflict force talent) once per session the character may use darkside force pips without flipping a destiny point or taking strain. They still take conflict for spending darkside pips as normal.

Padawan

Career skills: coordination, knowledge(education), mechanics, vigilance

Parry Toughened quick draw grit

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Toughened ---- reflect ---- well rounded ---- secrets of the jedi

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Parry ---- Learning opportunity Beginner's luck ---- Force rating

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Reflect ---- grit something to prove --- adaptable

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Improved secrets of the jedi --- temple training --- sincerest flattery ---- dedication

So after relistening to the Collapse of the Republic episode of the Order 66 podcast I think since Padawan already has Discipline and Lightsaber as career skills. So it would meed to be a different talent that could give you those benefits and maybe something else as the career skill portion is already a part of the career.