Uh huh. Oom explain the restrictions on the new comm antenna, a tank with a uplink would be broken for orders. Personally I think the oom may be a liability for deployment and actions in some games, especially if it becomes your uplink. I'm thinking it may be more likely to run lok with linked targeting array and commanding presence on my commander. Having the ability to generate it's own orders is 1 thing, being able to aim when it's losing an action to recover and will be barely pulling it's points.......

Lok should be treated like a 1 shot and not a strategy as realisticly he's only going to get maximum usefulness 3 times a game, and that's with perfect conditions.

Lastly I still stick by my announcement claim that we may well see double tank lists for separatists, and their combination potential long range threat plus a heap of heath behind red dice will shift the other factions makeups

1 hour ago, RyantheFett said:

For the GAR tank I am not sold especially on that 30 point laser. The twin laser turret and maybe a pilot I think look way better, but I do not play GAR so I am really not sure. Maybe after they get cheaper options to throw on the table????

But it's $10 cheaper! 😝

1 hour ago, OneLastMidnight said:

Good point on the army comp. The whole "no access to cheap troop" shtick may work for Warhammer, but Legion's order system is not as forgiving.

We also don't know what's planned for down the line. One of the problems with Legion is I think they playtest several things (or have done this in the past) and then release things piecemeal.

Clones shoot way better than most corps(all with their access to surge tokens) units in the game for little cost. The ability to shoot 2 units at once can be devastating (as in, wipe out an opponent's unit) so it makes sense they don't want a cheap tank that can do the same thing and ruin the game.

They (the designers) are very timid about breaking the game open too quickly and may have some balancing issues in their heads. Remember AT-ST started at 195pts and has a white die defense and no surge on attack.

We'll see if they can balance it. So far, I've preferred Legion's balance issues over X-wing 1.0's issues and 2.0's new rules/points/etc every other time I sneeze.

I am quite impressed at what this thing will play like once it arrives, the fact that you can load it out with a commander and 2 cycling ordnances for less than 200 points is fantastic!!!

This is pretty much what I'm looking at as a starting point:

AAT Trade Federation Battle Tank (170 + 23 = 193)

--T-Series Tactical Droid Pilot (5), High-Energy Shells (8), Armor-Piercing Shells (10)

Being able to start turn 1 by throwing 6 red and 1 white at range 4 with Crit 3 and high velocity is bonkers good. Pairing it up with Grievous, 5 Squads of B1's and a squad of B2's looks pretty amazing, even getting a fairly decent bid in there too:

793/800

General Grievous (175 + 31 = 206)

--Strict Orders (5), Aggressive Tactics (10), Tenacity (4), DT-57 Annihilator (12)

B2 Super Battle Droids (48 + 42 = 90)

--B2-ACM Trooper (26), B2 Super Battle Droid (16)

B1 Battle Droids (36 + 26 = 62)

--E-5s B1 Trooper (20), B1 Battle Droid (6)

B1 Battle Droids (36 + 26 = 62)

--E-5s B1 Trooper (20), B1 Battle Droid (6)

B1 Battle Droids (36 + 24 = 60)

--E-5C B1 Trooper (18), B1 Battle Droid (6)

B1 Battle Droids (36 + 24 = 60)

--E-5C B1 Trooper (18), B1 Battle Droid (6)

B1 Battle Droids (36 + 24 = 60)

--E-5C B1 Trooper (18), B1 Battle Droid (6)

AAT Trade Federation Battle Tank (170 + 23 = 193)

--T-Series Tactical Droid Pilot (5), High-Energy Shells (8), Armor-Piercing Shells (10)

2 hours ago, OneLastMidnight said:

The issue to me is point cost. The AAT has 2 options to fire twice in a round without any upgrades - 2 weapons or barrage. The Saber has to pay a significant premium to even be able to fire twice at all. Sure the Beam Turret is geat, but it better be for 30 points.

In the meantime the AAT fires 4R twice with surge crit, essentially, and High Velocity for 170pt.

I've played with the vanilla AAT in TTS and barrage isn't that great. Since you break up the attacks into 2 4 dice pools, if you are shooting into cover you lose 1-2 hits right away. And if you decide to attack the same target twice, your second attack loses 1 hit anyway due to cover. Barrage is best used against no cover units and if you have 2 targets. Otherwise it's inefficient to use 170 points to make 2 attack actions. You don't get to move, aim, or dodge. A smart player will be sitting in heavy cover anyway, so the potential with barrage is actually quite limited.

IMO, the best way to be using the AAT is taking bunker buster and high energy shells because this gives you options every round. And if you don't want to take high energy shells, bunker busters are an auto include in every tank build now because scatter lets you move your target out of cover, allowing your crappy B1s to take advantage of the situation. Bunker busters also allow you to roll for surges to use crit 2 on the main gun.

For the Saber, clones are paying a premium to make 4 attacks with the beam, which makes up for the lack of total units. You can consider the Saber + Beam as a replacement to Obi-Wan since their cost is similar. The Saber can combine the beam and cannons for a crazy strong range 4 attack, or split it up for 4 attacks total which can be a clutch play when dishing out suppression. 4 suppression is equal to taking away up to 4 actions from your opponents army which is the equalizer for high cost units. I don't think the Saber gets much out of bunker busters due to the weak sides, but I could see a case for high energy shells because they are range 4 and you may not always have a triple attack with the beam.

1 hour ago, OneLastMidnight said:

It wouldn't be so disappointing if we didn't know these less valuable units were going to stay this way for a long time.

When your design philosophy for a competitive game is "try to balance it as little as possible", mistakes become ingrained quickly. I don't know why FFG didn't learn from X-Wing 2.0 with Legion.

Competitive games are difficult to impossible to balance, but trying to be right on the first try? That's just not being realistic.

It is sort of funny how Legion just happens to repeat every mistake that X-wing 1.0 made in its lifetime. Yet at the same time it feels like they really want to copy X-wing 2.0.

I really wish they did a points change every 6 months instead of just once a year. They already opened Pandora's Box when they changed it the first time. Why not just be super consertive when they do the changes (like X-wing)? We all know that Tauntauns and Shores need changes sooner rather then later (and I love my tauntauns).

7 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

It is sort of funny how Legion just happens to repeat every mistake that X-wing 1.0 made in its lifetime. Yet at the same time it feels like they really want to copy X-wing 2.0.

I really wish they did a points change every 6 months instead of just once a year. They already opened Pandora's Box when they changed it the first time. Why not just be super consertive when they do the changes (like X-wing)? We all know that Tauntauns and Shores need changes sooner rather then later (and I love my tauntauns).

It's already been announced in discord both those units are getting changed, likely nerfed in the next update.

I can't speak to X-Wing, but Legion is already way ahead of Armada in terms of rule changes and erratas. Armada tries to fix issues by making new cards and waiting 18 months to errata.

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

It's already been announced in discord both those units are getting changed, likely nerfed in the next update.

I can't speak to X-Wing, but Legion is already way ahead of Armada in terms of rule changes and erratas. Armada tries to fix issues by making new cards and waiting 18 months to errata.

Bail Organa, Governor Pryce, Strategic Advisor:

The web-based rules and points update have worked really well for X-Wing. There are ships that have widely missed the mark, as bad as the Tauntaun/Snowspeeder or worse, but have been improved or toned down through point changes only. It's not perfect by any mean - I would like to see the cards and stats modified as needed also - but it's been a positive force compared to X-Wing 1.0.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

It's already been announced in discord both those units are getting changed, likely nerfed in the next update.

I can't speak to X-Wing, but Legion is already way ahead of Armada in terms of rule changes and erratas. Armada tries to fix issues by making new cards and waiting 18 months to errata.

X-wing 2.0 system is not prefect, but it is good:

• points/rules change every 6 months and they make a big event out of it with a stream
• emergency point changes in case something really break the game. I think they have done it only once (and it was a really broken combo)?
• upgrades are not on cards so they can add or remove if something is breaking the game
• app sucks, but they said they were working on it

Legion is like the middle child of FFG Star War. They will never get the love and attention as the golden boy X-wing, BUT it will never be mistreated as the red haired step-child Armada. So Legion gets stuck in this strange middle where we enjoy all the new things they are trying to do, but gets really annoying when they just repeat the same stupid mistakes X-wing 1.0 did.

For example: Legion refusing to have points online was a huge mistake that anybody should have seen. And in the end they just caved and put point changes online.

47 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

it will never be mistreated as the red haired step-child Armada

It me though

17 hours ago, OneLastMidnight said:

Good point on the army comp. The whole "no access to cheap troop" shtick may work for Warhammer, but Legion's order system is not as forgiving.

And it's true that munitions are a cheap way to fire twice.... but only every other round.

My point is that the AAT doesn't have to spend 8 or 14 or any point to fire twice reliably all game. I don't know why they didn't give the Saber a low range 2-3B weapon like they did the AAT, or reduce its point cost since it pretty much has to pay extra to fire twice.

I've play tested the AAT, and barrage isn't as good as people think it is. Remember, you have to spend two actions to shoot twice. This means no movement which significantly limits your targets. Your opponent can exploit this greatly by hiding in cover when in LOS from the AAT, or moving out of LOS.

15 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

I've played with the vanilla AAT in TTS and barrage isn't that great. Since you break up the attacks into 2 4 dice pools, if you are shooting into cover you lose 1-2 hits right away. And if you decide to attack the same target twice, your second attack loses 1 hit anyway due to cover. Barrage is best used against no cover units and if you have 2 targets. Otherwise it's inefficient to use 170 points to make 2 attack actions. You don't get to move, aim, or dodge. A smart player will be sitting in heavy cover anyway, so the potential with barrage is actually quite limited.

IMO, the best way to be using the AAT is taking bunker buster and high energy shells because this gives you options every round. And if you don't want to take high energy shells, bunker busters are an auto include in every tank build now because scatter lets you move your target out of cover, allowing your crappy B1s to take advantage of the situation. Bunker busters also allow you to roll for surges to use crit 2 on the main gun.

For the Saber, clones are paying a premium to make 4 attacks with the beam, which makes up for the lack of total units. You can consider the Saber + Beam as a replacement to Obi-Wan since their cost is similar. The Saber can combine the beam and cannons for a crazy strong range 4 attack, or split it up for 4 attacks total which can be a clutch play when dishing out suppression. 4 suppression is equal to taking away up to 4 actions from your opponents army which is the equalizer for high cost units. I don't think the Saber gets much out of bunker busters due to the weak sides, but I could see a case for high energy shells because they are range 4 and you may not always have a triple attack with the beam.

It's funny because I just responded to his post without reading yours and you highlight exactly what I've encountered.

16 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

I am quite impressed at what this thing will play like once it arrives, the fact that you can load it out with a commander and 2 cycling ordnances for less than 200 points is fantastic!!!

The pilot makes the tank a "Field Commander" not a commander. You still need to field Dooku, or General Rot Lung.

4 hours ago, CyberClaw said:

The pilot makes the tank a "Field Commander" not a commander. You still need to field Dooku, or General Rot Lung.

well yes, I meant pilot upgrade rather than the tank as a commander clearly, in this instance referring to the Tac Droid pilot.

22 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

X-wing 2.0 system is not prefect, but it is good:

• points/rules change every 6 months and they make a big event out of it with a stream
• emergency point changes in case something really break the game. I think they have done it only once (and it was a really broken combo)?
• upgrades are not on cards so they can add or remove if something is breaking the game
• app sucks, but they said they were working on it

Legion is like the middle child of FFG Star War. They will never get the love and attention as the golden boy X-wing, BUT it will never be mistreated as the red haired step-child Armada. So Legion gets stuck in this strange middle where we enjoy all the new things they are trying to do, but gets really annoying when they just repeat the same stupid mistakes X-wing 1.0 did.

For example: Legion refusing to have points online was a huge mistake that anybody should have seen. And in the end they just caved and put point changes online.

Does the loss of FFG Interactive impact X-Wing's app and online points? It's possible the dev team or leadership team at FFG/Asmodee knew the ax was coming and decided not to go that route. I've been playing Legion since launch and I'm glad they are using the RRG to house all the erratas. It's accessible to everyone and you can have it printed. I don't really see what your complaint is because as you said, the erratas are already online. You can screenshot or have a copy of it on your phone. And the erratas are coming in roughly 6 month cycles. I think we have had 3 of them with only one being a point change.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Does the loss of FFG Interactive impact X-Wing's app and online points? It's possible the dev team or leadership team at FFG/Asmodee knew the ax was coming and decided not to go that route. I've been playing Legion since launch and I'm glad they are using the RRG to house all the erratas. It's accessible to everyone and you can have it printed. I don't really see what your complaint is because as you said, the erratas are already online. You can screenshot or have a copy of it on your phone. And the erratas are coming in roughly 6 month cycles. I think we have had 3 of them with only one being a point change.

No. They outsourced everything for the X-Wing app.

19 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Does the loss of FFG Interactive impact X-Wing's app and online points? It's possible the dev team or leadership team at FFG/Asmodee knew the ax was coming and decided not to go that route. I've been playing Legion since launch and I'm glad they are using the RRG to house all the erratas. It's accessible to everyone and you can have it printed. I don't really see what your complaint is because as you said, the erratas are already online. You can screenshot or have a copy of it on your phone. And the erratas are coming in roughly 6 month cycles. I think we have had 3 of them with only one being a point change.

The X-wing app was done outside the company, at least that is what they all say. Pretty much why the app is considered lack luster and their promise to improve the whole system soon. They also said that the app cost too much and they are not a fan of it iirc?

As for Legion I loved that they went online, one of their best decisions! I just think (and maybe I'm wrong in this) that they seem to repeat a lot of mistakes that the other FFG games made. And while they do eventually fix their mistakes it just seems like a lot of wasted time and energy?

For example: Maybe they should switch to a six months point change? X-wing gets a lot of hype for point change days and the community is really positive about the whole thing. Right now in Legion the big offenders are pretty obvious https://thefifthtrooper.com/las-vegas-open-top-8-lists/ and I don't know how to feel about their hands off approach................................. hopefully it won't ever be as bad as TLT or flotillas.