Yo! So I got sent my old collection of XWMG stuff, which is mostly ST + Republic. Took her on a training run of T-70 VS. T-70, taught her a lot and she did a really good job- knocked my shields out evenly to her own! She apparently had learned a fair bit from watching me play Simulator, too.

Question is, where exactly do I go from here? I don't really know if proper listbuilding is on the cards yet, I'd like to take her against two TIEs or let her have control over those TIEs, but also thinking of Medium (ARC-170) and Large (Falcon) base runs to get familiar with different movement schemes for different sizes of ships, and what to generally expect for vessels of a different size class.

Collection's pretty healthy too.

x4 V-19
x2 Delta-7
x1 ARC-170
x1 BTL-B Y-Wing

x4 TIE/FO
x1TIE/SF
x1TIE/VN
x2 Upsilon

x4 T-70
x4 RZ-2
x3 MG-100
x2 Transport / Pod
x1 YT-1300 (escape craft)

x2 Fang

So, what do you guys recommend we do next?

I always recommend playing HotAC with your partner!

3 hours ago, Odanan said:

I always recommend playing HotAC with your partner!

This I will try, but perhaps in the future when she's a little more comfortable with all the mechanics!

EDIT: Reminder that I only own 2.0 content though.

EDIT: and no OT content.

Quickbuild cards somewhat exist, but they're... inconsistent. Most list-building kinda has to work through squadbuilders.

First Order always seems like a fair bet. Pretty much any random group of FO ships is solid, and can scale well all the way up to 200 points . Maybe leave out Upsilons other than Tavson. There's a few clunker pilots, but mostly everything is playable.

Doing like a generic ARC and pair of torrents in something like a 100 point match puts forward both experience with both Medium bases and multiple ships, without getting too fiddly. ARC + generic 7B Jedi would also be a sweet small-scale list, and a real adventure in movement. An ARC alone doesn't necessarily seem like a fun ship to play with. Pretty clunky, and a lot of the learning experience for Medium-base ships is seeing how they have to move in a field with more ships on it. Seems like an ARC is a great one to fly once scaling up out of the 50ish point range, into the 100 point range.

Resistance Falcon I'm less sold on, since it really is quite different from a lot of large-base stuff. Han with Rey gunner and Engine Upgrade is probably the best bet for a traditional large-base turret ship. Standard Rey builds (Finn, Rose, Korr Sella, Title), while strong, are pretty niche. Then again, a title/Korr Sella build for Rey mostly ignores a lot of the difficulties posed by the red actions on the Resistance Falcon, and maybe that'd be worth giving a shot. Scales well to 200 by adding a pair of Heroic/Optics Red X-Wings. There's perhaps better, more subtle and sophisticated partners for Rey, but Optics Reds are simple and consistent.

Fangs are also great. Aces can perhaps be daunting, but a Fang with Concordia Faceoff is a great tool for making beginner ace play easier. Most aces kind of have to get fully out-of-arc to be safe, but Fangs have this extra spot that isn't out-of-arc where they're a lot safer than they should be. That makes the geometry of ace ships a lot less daunting. A 100 point game of 2 Fearless Skulls vs 2 X-Wings seems like something great for learning. There's a great natural scale-up to standard 200/6 if she's into the ships, by adding a Firespray to the collection.

Yeah, after probably both sides of a 2 FO vs T-70 match (maybe also scale up to 4 FO vs 2 T-70...), getting a Fang or two in there seems really great.

I think 100-120 ish point games are a great starting point, with minimal/no upgrades and maybe just ignore pilot abilities.

Maybe Kylo Ren and two Epsilons versus Poe and Kare? (ignore Kylo's ability, it's useless)

There's some reasons for starting with that, for one, usually when I intro new people to the game they like to see the characters they recognize, and two, Resistance and First Order have very good internal faction balance and are well balanced against each other so they're the best new player/casual play factions

4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Quickbuild cards somewhat exist, but they're... inconsistent. Most list-building kinda has to work through squadbuilders.

First Order always seems like a fair bet. Pretty much any random group of FO ships is solid, and can scale well all the way up to 200 points . Maybe leave out Upsilons other than Tavson. There's a few clunker pilots, but mostly everything is playable.

Doing like a generic ARC and pair of torrents in something like a 100 point match puts forward both experience with both Medium bases and multiple ships, without getting too fiddly. ARC + generic 7B Jedi would also be a sweet small-scale list, and a real adventure in movement. An ARC alone doesn't necessarily seem like a fun ship to play with. Pretty clunky, and a lot of the learning experience for Medium-base ships is seeing how they have to move in a field with more ships on it. Seems like an ARC is a great one to fly once scaling up out of the 50ish point range, into the 100 point range.

Resistance Falcon I'm less sold on, since it really is quite different from a lot of large-base stuff. Han with Rey gunner and Engine Upgrade is probably the best bet for a traditional large-base turret ship. Standard Rey builds (Finn, Rose, Korr Sella, Title), while strong, are pretty niche. Then again, a title/Korr Sella build for Rey mostly ignores a lot of the difficulties posed by the red actions on the Resistance Falcon, and maybe that'd be worth giving a shot. Scales well to 200 by adding a pair of Heroic/Optics Red X-Wings. There's perhaps better, more subtle and sophisticated partners for Rey, but Optics Reds are simple and consistent.

Fangs are also great. Aces can perhaps be daunting, but a Fang with Concordia Faceoff is a great tool for making beginner ace play easier. Most aces kind of have to get fully out-of-arc to be safe, but Fangs have this extra spot that isn't out-of-arc where they're a lot safer than they should be. That makes the geometry of ace ships a lot less daunting. A 100 point game of 2 Fearless Skulls vs 2 X-Wings seems like something great for learning. There's a great natural scale-up to standard 200/6 if she's into the ships, by adding a Firespray to the collection.

Yeah, after probably both sides of a 2 FO vs T-70 match (maybe also scale up to 4 FO vs 2 T-70...), getting a Fang or two in there seems really great.

I think you're bang-on about the Fangs, because that's the first 2.0 content I played with too! Fenn Rau is a great one to really learn what it's like to play an ace, but Skulls are wonder Ace-Lites for beginners. Resistance Falcon... Yeah, it's a weird pick tbh. But it's the only large turret I got. Figured bowties are worth teaching and two TIE/FOs is a pretty good starting point to teach how turrets work proper.

Reminder, she's good and a **** of a lot smarter than me. I'm excited to see what kinds of lists she ends up building.

3 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I think 100-120 ish point games are a great starting point, with minimal/no upgrades and maybe just ignore pilot abilities.

Maybe Kylo Ren and two Epsilons versus Poe and Kare? (ignore Kylo's ability, it's useless)

There's some reasons for starting with that, for one, usually when I intro new people to the game they like to see the characters they recognize, and two, Resistance and First Order have very good internal faction balance and are well balanced against each other so they're the best new player/casual play factions

Two epsilons are pretty unfun to play for a beginner, so I'd have to gun with that one. Does teach pretty good target priority though.

hmm. Epsilons are among my five favorite ships in the game. I guess to each their own.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you currently have three Starfortresses and a girlfriend who will play X-wing with you, there’s nowhere to go but down!

Seriously though, you have a lot of Resistance and FO. You don’t need a big system like HotAc to plays some missions. Make up a plot and let her be whatever group she likes better. You can rescue a ship, make props like bases out of paper. Draw a little map and have objective-driven missions. You can skew points toward her for now as she’s learning.

(I’m assuming she’s not going to be super into competitive skirmish right out of the gate. If so, just make up some lists and play. You might be surprised how fast she starts beating you.)

22 minutes ago, dadocollin said:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you currently have three Starfortresses and a girlfriend who will play X-wing with you, there’s nowhere to go but down!

Seriously though, you have a lot of Resistance and FO. You don’t need a big system like HotAc to plays some missions. Make up a plot and let her be whatever group she likes better. You can rescue a ship, make props like bases out of paper. Draw a little map and have objective-driven missions. You can skew points toward her for now as she’s learning.

(I’m assuming she’s not going to be super into competitive skirmish right out of the gate. If so, just make up some lists and play. You might be surprised how fast she starts beating you.)

Erm… I don't think it'll surprise her at all. Re:

46 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Reminder, she's good and a **** of a lot smarter than me. I'm excited to see what kinds of lists she ends up building.

1 hour ago, KCDodger said:

Two epsilons are pretty unfun to play for a beginner, so I'd have to gun with that one. Does teach pretty good target priority though.

Epsilon is the squadron of the i1 Tie FO generic. He meant Kylo + 2x i1 FO not two upsilon shuttles.

How do FOs offer unfun experience for someone new? I don’t understand.

1 hour ago, KCDodger said:

Reminder, she's good and a **** of a lot smarter than me.

Always and unironically a good plan.

1 hour ago, KCDodger said:

Two epsilons are pretty unfun to play for a beginner, so I'd have to gun with that one. Does teach pretty good target priority though.

That reminds me: non-Gunner TIE/sf are really solid beginner ships. They've got a pretty open dial, and those rear shots are handy. Optics is great for making sure they're not ineffective at shooting stuff, but plain even works. If you're looking for an excuse to add an extra TIE/sf to your collection, that'd be a great one.

I'd ask her what she wants to play next.

She either wants to learn more or she doesn't.

Maybe she just wants to hang out and it doesn't matter what you do.

Don't obsess on which ships or scenarios to play if she doesn't have a preference. Just put stuff on the table.

3 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Epsilon is the squadron of the i1 Tie FO generic. He meant Kylo + 2x i1 FO not two upsilon shuttles.

How do FOs offer unfun experience for someone new? I don’t understand.

I'm SO STUPID. Epsilons are fine! Wow! See? SEe? I'm an idiot. I thought you said Upsilons! Gods ****!

3 hours ago, dadocollin said:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you currently have three Starfortresses and a girlfriend who will play X-wing with you, there’s nowhere to go but down!

Seriously though, you have a lot of Resistance and FO. You don’t need a big system like HotAc to plays some missions. Make up a plot and let her be whatever group she likes better. You can rescue a ship, make props like bases out of paper. Draw a little map and have objective-driven missions. You can skew points toward her for now as she’s learning.

(I’m assuming she’s not going to be super into competitive skirmish right out of the gate. If so, just make up some lists and play. You might be surprised how fast she starts beating you.)

I dunno' dude she mains Wolf in Smash, she's kind of intimidating despite being uh. 5'3.

2 hours ago, Bucknife said:

I'd ask her what she wants to play next.

She either wants to learn more or she doesn't.

Maybe she just wants to hang out and it doesn't matter what you do.

Don't obsess on which ships or scenarios to play if she doesn't have a preference. Just put stuff on the table.

Oh yeah sho'nuff just kinda' collecting thoughts and opinions. Mind, we live together so just hanging out is something we do at literally all times.

Agree on letting her pick. I would suggest - whatever you do - having a few games at 100 points with more-or-less generic ships, then move onto aces.

That's not because they're necessarily harder to play. It's because complexity scales fast and learning to predict movement and eyeball final positions is an important skill players sometimes skip over in the search for the highest initiative pilot and card-combo-building.

Winning by turrets and I-move-after-you repositioning is all well and dandy but sooner or later you'll face a squad with higher initiative and/or a bigger bid than you and it'll feel like slamming into a brick wall.

By all means take the higher initiative generics, but get a few games in with the A-wings, or Silencer, or Fangs - stuff where you can learn what this 'boost' and 'barrel roll' stuff does without being left tokenless and useless if you guess wrong - and then move onto whatever iconic ship or pilot catches her eye.

13 hours ago, KCDodger said:

So, what do you guys recommend we do next?

Get married.

3 hours ago, S4ul0 said:

Get married.

Oh, yeah, working on that. It'll take a hot minute but trust me we've talked more than once about it and we're very happy together.

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Agree on letting her pick. I would suggest - whatever you do - having a few games at 100 points with more-or-less generic ships, then move onto aces.

That's not because they're necessarily harder to play. It's because complexity scales fast and learning to predict movement and eyeball final positions is an important skill players sometimes skip over in the search for the highest initiative pilot and card-combo-building.

Winning by turrets and I-move-after-you repositioning is all well and dandy but sooner or later you'll face a squad with higher initiative and/or a bigger bid than you and it'll feel like slamming into a brick wall.

By all means take the higher initiative generics, but get a few games in with the A-wings, or Silencer, or Fangs - stuff where you can learn what this 'boost' and 'barrel roll' stuff does without being left tokenless and useless if you guess wrong - and then move onto whatever iconic ship or pilot catches her eye.

Sounds like a hella' good idea, Magnus. Thanks dude.

Also, she seems to be gravitating towards the idea of having an excuse to fly the Slave I / Boba Fett.

This is the way.

3 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Also, she seems to be gravitating towards the idea of having an excuse to fly the Slave I / Boba Fett.

This is the way.

Mr Bob. A. Feet and one or two Fangs is not a bad squad once you've gotten up to speed, and it's a nice balancing act between having lots of options to use but still 'working' without them, so it's a good one to ultimately aim for. But don't throw all the options in at once.

A generic Bounty Hunter and a Zealous Recruit has most actions going in the game, including boost and barrel roll, linked actions, red actions, secondary arcs of fire, and varying initiative and base sizes across the squad, and it's basically 100 points (okay, okay, it's 2 points over. For intro games with a new player, that's close enough).

That lets someone get the hang of flying the ships for a couple of games against whatever enemies you want to throw in - 4 TIE/fo ("This is 'blocking'. Getting blocked is bad"), a pair of T-70s with some Heavy Laser Cannons (this is "Bullseye". "Getting Bullseyed is bad."), and then when she's happy, promote them to 'proper' Boba/Fenn and let her see how scary the 'proper' pilots are.

Maybe with one game against at 200-100 against a list she's played with the generics, to appreciate why the ace versions are so much scarier...

18 hours ago, KCDodger said:

So, what do you guys recommend we do next?

I would recommend looking for something like Heroes of the Aturi Cluster. The thing about that is it's a co-op game where you are both on the same side and defeating the AI enemy together. It can be a good thing to share with someone and is less about the competitive aspect that can turn the game into a negative experience.

I'm not sure if there is something like HotAC for the new era (Resistance vs. First Order). Then again, I haven't been down the rabbit hole of all the different variants of HotAC that have been made. I would expect that there is one done.

You can also look at Epic Battles which is 11 different scenarios. They range from each person having a single ship up to 500 pts per side. There are many that have 300 pts per side and that is do-able with the collection you have. It is also only $25.

My wife played X-wing for a bit, @KCDodger . Enjoyed scenarios, HotAC, and even just free play 1 vs 1. She even won the Decimator in our collection of ships at a tournament at the local store.

Word of advice: Avoid combo-wing. This killed it for my wife, playing at the local shop and feeling powerless despite flying well, and she hasn't played much since those dark days of 1.0. Yes, 2.0 is much better than 1.0 for power combo cards, but you can still make some pretty significant combos if your opponent is unprepared for it - which she will be since she hasn't the experience. If your girlfriend decides to introduce power combos through list building, that's when you can start. Otherwise, keep your list "friendly and fun."

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Mr Bob. A. Feet and one or two Fangs is not a bad squad once you've gotten up to speed, and it's a nice balancing act between having lots of options to use but still 'working' without them, so it's a good one to ultimately aim for. But don't throw all the options in at once.

A generic Bounty Hunter and a Zealous Recruit has most actions going in the game, including boost and barrel roll, linked actions, red actions, secondary arcs of fire, and varying initiative and base sizes across the squad, and it's basically 100 points (okay, okay, it's 2 points over. For intro games with a new player, that's close enough).

That lets someone get the hang of flying the ships for a couple of games against whatever enemies you want to throw in - 4 TIE/fo ("This is 'blocking'. Getting blocked is bad"), a pair of T-70s with some Heavy Laser Cannons (this is "Bullseye". "Getting Bullseyed is bad."), and then when she's happy, promote them to 'proper' Boba/Fenn and let her see how scary the 'proper' pilots are.

Maybe with one game against at 200-100 against a list she's played with the generics, to appreciate why the ace versions are so much scarier...

Valid! I'll consider this approach.

4 hours ago, LagJanson said:

My wife played X-wing for a bit, @KCDodger . Enjoyed scenarios, HotAC, and even just free play 1 vs 1. She even one the Decimator in our collection of ships at a tournament at the local store.

Word of advice: Avoid combo-wing. This killed it for my wife, playing at the local shop and feeling powerless despite flying well, and she hasn't played much since those dark days of 1.0. Yes, 2.0 is much better than 1.0 for power combo cards, but you can still make some pretty significant combos if your opponent is unprepared for it - which she will be since she hasn't the experience. If your girlfriend decides to introduce power combos through list building, that's when you can start. Otherwise, keep your list "friendly and fun."

Oh trust me I feel ya'. The only reason I'm not entirely too worried is that she used to play League of Legends with silver and gold level buddies, powergames the **** out of Fallout 4 and is a **** of a Smash player. She plays to win as much as she has fun, love that about her.

But pacing is KEY! So yes. I'll make sure to introduce these things slowly.

1 hour ago, KCDodger said:

But pacing is KEY! So yes. I'll make sure to introduce these things slowly.

I think that sums it up. I know you said she's smart, and an experienced gamer, but there are plenty of layers of complexity, and there is a definite learning curve. On that note, how does she deal with i.e. a new video game? Does she take her time and explore around, or is she a 'skip the tutorial' type? That should give you a clue about how to pace the introduction of new things.

Past that, do what she's interested in. If she's a Mando fangirl, let her play Boba. ("TIE FIGHTERS!!! *squee* - My GF, any time I ask what she wants to play) If she wants to play "together", look into HotAC scenarios.

Above all, make sure she's having fun. Which should be obvious, but I'm still surprised by the number of people who have different ideas in mind when it comes to the "proper" introduction technique for new players.

3 hours ago, Hatemonger said:

I think that sums it up. I know you said she's smart, and an experienced gamer, but there are plenty of layers of complexity, and there is a definite learning curve. On that note, how does she deal with i.e. a new video game? Does she take her time and explore around, or is she a 'skip the tutorial' type? That should give you a clue about how to pace the introduction of new things.

Past that, do what she's interested in. If she's a Mando fangirl, let her play Boba. ("TIE FIGHTERS!!! *squee* - My GF, any time I ask what she wants to play) If she wants to play "together", look into HotAC scenarios.

Above all, make sure she's having fun. Which should be obvious, but I'm still surprised by the number of people who have different ideas in mind when it comes to the "proper" introduction technique for new players.

She's happy to take her time to learn things. Real proponent of the idea that she doesn't know anything, and that's the first step to learning stuff. If anything I'm a skip-the-tutorial type because I always figure that I'll, "Learn it on the fly".

I DO NOT ALWAYS LEARN IT ON THE FLY.

Dunno' how she feels about Mandalorians but she definitely likes the Firespray's design, so hey. (No fan of TIEs though, actively dislikes their design. I resonate with that sentiment.)

4 hours ago, KCDodger said:

(No fan of TIEs though, actively dislikes their design. I resonate with that sentiment.)

Grrr.