So, a little context first. I have been playing hyperspace as a way to get old players back into X-Wing and to try and hook new players at my FLGS. It worked great because folks could tiptoe into 2nd without going nuts on conversion kits (except maybe one kit for returning players).

Now, though, it has become clear that hyperspace is more like MtG’s “standard” format, rotations and all, and some of the choices are hard for me to swallow. I got back into X-Wing with the clone wars faction release, and I decided to stick with Republic and Resistance as my factions rather than going nuts the way I used to. You probably know where this is going.

Resistance in hyperspace is in a great place. I love flying 5 RZ-2s or multiple T-70s, so I’m set there. However, my favorite faction is Republic, and I can’t get over the feeling that they have been gutted for this “season.”

No 7B. No Aethersprite Anakin. No Mace. No 104th. No Sinker. No V-19s at all. Gunner and Crew options gutted. I know that every faction is limited to 4-5 ships, but it just feels rough when I go to build a list.

This post, however, is not about being salty. This is me asking you all to help talk me off a ledge before I dive into playing nothing but extended. Sure, if the option is price 7B and Anakin into oblivion or take them out of Hyperspace, this is the better option, but why did we also have to lose V-19’s? And please, someone convince me that CLT isn’t straight trash that is only an option because it’s our only option.

It just feels like the only options open are Wolffe, maybe Matchstick, or a bunch of torpedos. I guess ultimately it just feels so limited. So...help?

*insert Kylo “let the past die” meme*

Have you looked at Obi/Plo+2? The Delta 7's are 100 points together so you have half a list's worth of ships to pair with them:

Unnamed Squadron (191)
Obi-Wan Kenobi — Delta-7 Aethersprite	48
Calibrated Laser Targeting	4
Ship Total: 52
Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2
 	
Plo Koon — Delta-7 Aethersprite	44
Calibrated Laser Targeting	4
Ship Total: 48
Half Points: 24 Threshold: 2
 	
"Broadside" — BTL-B Y-Wing	36
Ion Cannon Turret	5
Ship Total: 41
Half Points: 21 Threshold: 4
 	
Anakin Skywalker — Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter	41
Passive Sensors	3
Adv. Proton Torpedoes	6
Ship Total: 50
Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3

Or 3 Bravo N-1's? Or 2 Dedicated Arcs? Republic is a whole new ballgame now.

8 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

However, my favorite faction is Republic, and I can’t get over the feeling that they have been gutted for this “season.”

It depends on your local tournaments, but:

Around here, we will have 6 events until April, 3 of each. In addition, I will go to 1 or even 2 system opens. For now I play Resistance in hyperspace and Imperial in extended. Is there a reason that you can't or don't want to split it? For example, only events of one sort?

3 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

This is me asking you all to help talk me off a ledge...

*push*

3 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

So...help?

Okay, more seriously. The Republic was indeed hit hard. A lot of factions lost favourites and powerful units though, so you really can't look at your own faction choices in a vacuum.

• losing the V-19 seems a bit odd with so few ships. Well, so does the loss of the Separatist ship... To be fair, the Separatist ship loss is a bigger smack in the power levels than the V-19. That said, this is likely done so that wave 7 can just be slipped into Hyperspace format as they arrive.
• Republic have been a big power within tournaments. Jedi were very powerful, and still are. A little less aggressive, but remain defensively strong.
• Loss of 7B means more people will discover the cheaper CLT config. On high initiative Jedi this is still really good. We've seen it locally with 4 ship Republic lists, 3 are CLT high init Jedi. Obi-wan, Plo and Mace were commonly used.
• Gunner options have been greatly diminished across most factions.

CLT is decent. Obi is sorta kinda Soontir Fel, and mass CLT generic Jedi is a solid enough list.

//

But yeah, Republic is in an odd spot for now. Is it odd to say there isn't a tonne of variety?

• Aethersprite and N-1 are basically 2-red ships with nice tricks and roughly comparable toughness. They fly pretty differently, but fill a similar role in a list.
• Y-Wings and ARCs are extra-firing-arc ships with really similar dials and essentially the same statline.

You can watch Nathan beat World Champ Oli on stream at worlds with CLT jedi. They aren't bad. You don't have R2A6 which is a little rough, but CLT jedi are still really good.

Broadside is probably the best control piece in the game right now, and ion is a pretty great way to set up CLT.

You have a lot of options to plug in with the rest of the points.

I personally love Republic, but I do kind of agree with you that they are in a rough spot in comparison. They might be sneaky good though, as their good pieces like Wolffe and Broadside match up well against Fang fighters too.

• Losing all the Torrents is odd and I get the hurt feelings there. Not like anyone was getting burned by the named V-19s!
• You will be getting LAAT Gunships soon* so you have that to look forward to!
• Obi-Wan was (arguably) the best pilot for the points before the January update and he went up one. stinking. point. He has to still be crazy good even with CLT not 7B.
• I think Da Force is still stupid undercosted so experiment with different combos of Jedi and see what sticks.
• My take: Republic probably needed the most severe pruning of any faction to encourage creativity in hyperspace list building. 7B Jedi or Sinker backed up with Torrents were so successful that entire chassis were just going to be ignored without some severe limitations.
• CLT is pretty meh but you can still get it to do some work.

*for certain definitions of soon

once I figured out that the following Poe is hyper legal I've had so much fun.

Poe Dameron (68)
Outmaneuver (6)
BB-8 (8)
Spare Parts Canisters (4)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Primed Thrusters (10)
Black One (2)
Autoblasters (3)
Total: 101

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

he's not cheap. but this is the most fun I've had in quite a while. just keep the wings closed and make things hurt.

28 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

So, a little context first. I have been playing hyperspace as a way to get old players back into X-Wing and to try and hook new players at my FLGS. It worked great because folks could tiptoe into 2nd without going nuts on conversion kits (except maybe one kit for returning players).

Now, though, it has become clear that hyperspace is more like MtG’s “standard” format, rotations and all, and some of the choices are hard for me to swallow. I got back into X-Wing with the clone wars faction release, and I decided to stick with Republic and Resistance as my factions rather than going nuts the way I used to. You probably know where this is going.

Resistance in hyperspace is in a great place. I love flying 5 RZ-2s or multiple T-70s, so I’m set there. However, my favorite faction is Republic, and I can’t get over the feeling that they have been gutted for this “season.”

No 7B. No Aethersprite Anakin. No Mace. No 104th. No Sinker. No V-19s at all. Gunner and Crew options gutted. I know that every faction is limited to 4-5 ships, but it just feels rough when I go to build a list.

This post, however, is not about being salty. This is me asking you all to help talk me off a ledge before I dive into playing nothing but extended. Sure, if the option is price 7B and Anakin into oblivion or take them out of Hyperspace, this is the better option, but why did we also have to lose V-19’s? And please, someone convince me that CLT isn’t straight trash that is only an option because it’s our only option.

It just feels like the only options open are Wolffe, maybe Matchstick, or a bunch of torpedos. I guess ultimately it just feels so limited. So...help?

*insert Kylo “let the past die” meme*

While I get Anakin isn’t in the hyper mobile ultra defensive Aethersprite. I think it’s a bit odd he’s forgotten in the Y-Wing for some reason. Either acting as a Ion monster with his force mods in a durable ship once he gets you he probably has you along with his wingmen. As a torp carrier again just potentially brutal. He’s still I6 he can still potentially Barrel roll and not care about any stress he takes due to his ability.

it does force people to look into and consider some ships they haven’t previously given thought to. There’s some interesting potential but it’s a matter of looking beyond the old standards you set for yourself.

Not liking Hyperspace, but not liking Extended? Simply, create your own format. If you don't like what was cut from Hyperspace, add it back in. I do think the rotation in Hyperspace will be different than other games, as I suspect stuff can come back in.

57 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

It just feels like the only options open are Wolffe, maybe Matchstick, or a bunch of torpedos. I guess ultimately it just feels so limited. So...help?

Little. Yellow. Death.

I love these guys. But you will want torps.

I was a little surprised to see them cut all the V-19s. I mean, they come with the Republic starter, so this really does hurt new Republic players. I think you're right that they're now going to use Hyperspace as a rotating format to freshen up the game and force players to play different things and try (and buy) new ships.

I think it's going to be good for the game in general and probably good for the FFG bottom line. As others have pointed out, these formats only really apply to the tournament scene, but it probably will hurt getting old players back or maintaining interest from players who are dedicated to a specific ship/build. On the flip side, players who have been obsessed with certain ships/builds that have not been meta may get the format to rotate into their favorite ships. If you have a limited collection, I would never expect to always have the hottest meta builds in any format. I think it's probably reasonable for FFG to expect players to invest fully into at least one faction to play in the (top tier) competitive scene. (By invest fully, I mean buy multiples of every ship in the faction.)

They're going to mix up the hyperspace meta for two reasons: 1) To rotate out dominant ships/builds so the meta doesn't get stale or NPE; 2) To get players to play/buy other ships that aren't seeing much table time. With Republic, they're clearly removing the few dominant ships/cards and trying to get more Y-wings and N-1s onto the table (notice Rick Olie survived the purge). Removing the V-19s is how they're trying to accomplish the second goal for this faction.

49 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:

Broadside is probably the best control piece in the game right now, and ion is a pretty great way to set up CLT.

You know, this may actually be the missing piece of the puzzle that I needed to break through the grumpiness I’ve been feeling.

CLT Obi, CLT Plo, Wolffe with R3 and Tail Gunner, Broadside with ion turret.

It might not work out but it definitely has gotten the gears turning. This is what I needed, I was just focusing so much on what was lost and couldn’t get past that to see what could still be done.

I think the new Hyperspace format is awesome. It is true/back to the original intent at least: new-players-friendly. Someone who only has access to the 2.0 releases is not missing anything. They can't play everything they own though obviously. It think it's fine, as it'll always be temporary anyway.

My previous Republic Hyperspace list is no longer legal in both Hyperspace and Extended:
- Mace (Delta-7B)
- Wolffe (Cody)
- 104th
- 104th

But... so what? I'll play something else, even though I really liked that list. I like variety in the game even more. Yes, the latest Hyperspace is quite restricted, and maybe seems more so for certain factions, upgrade types, etc. but we're all in the same boat. It's like a 6-month-long "puzzle" that we need to figure out... or, more importantly, that we can have FUN with until the next update.

I've been playing since the game's original release, in 2012. I've never been more happy with X-Wing than right now, with all the new formats we have access to, card packs, scenarios/missions, etc.

i initially thought scum was in a pretty bad spot in hyperspace and then i realised fang fighters are still really good vs the field. backed up by one or two mining guild or m-3A intercepters or even runing one or two with boba looks very solid. less ships all around means less options but also less options for every faction. i knda like what FFG r doing with hyperspace, its the first time ive really shown an intererst in switching from extended to hyperspace but im a deidicated scum player so probbably not the same feels for other factions.

32 minutes ago, Ronu said:

While I get Anakin isn’t in the hyper mobile ultra defensive Aethersprite. I think it’s a bit odd he’s forgotten in the Y-Wing for some reason. Either acting as a Ion monster with his force mods in a durable ship once he gets you he probably has you along with his wingmen. As a torp carrier again just potentially brutal. He’s still I6 he can still potentially Barrel roll and not care about any stress he takes due to his ability.

it does force people to look into and consider some ships they haven’t previously given thought to. There’s some interesting potential but it’s a matter of looking beyond the old standards you set for yourself.

I just have trouble justifying 60 points for a naked Y-Wing. An I6 torpedo carrier is obviously powerful, but that’s a lot of points to sink into a Y-Wing (and N-1s feel like better torp carriers). Ion and force mods are also nice, but it feels like Matchstick can be almost as effective for a lot cheaper.

Ultimately I feel like Anakin in the Y-Wing is a dogfighting ace in a ship that really doesn’t dogfight well. Just my thoughts.

But yes, you are ultimately correct, I just need to break through and be willing to try new stuff.

Thank you, folks, most of these suggestions have really helped, and a realization hit me like a ton of bricks.

I love playing RZ-2s, and a CLT Jedi Knight is only 2 points more expensive than a Heroic/AO Blue Squadron Recruit. Obviously they will fly a little differently, will require more careful aiming, and don’t have the failsafe of Heroic, but they also aren’t so tied to blue maneuvers. As something close enough to what I’m used to playing over in Resistance, it’s worth a shot to just put 5 Jedi on the table and roll some dice.

so fun fact, a four ship republic list got top 4 at our hyperspace tournament last weekend. they're still good.

it was one of each ship, Obi, little Anakin, Broadside, and Wolffe iirc

14 minutes ago, Greedo_Sharpshooter said:

i initially thought scum was in a pretty bad spot in hyperspace and then i realised fang fighters are still really good vs the field. backed up by one or two mining guild or m-3A intercepters or even runing one or two with boba looks very solid. less ships all around means less options but also less options for every faction. i knda like what FFG r doing with hyperspace, its the first time ive really shown an intererst in switching from extended to hyperspace but im a deidicated scum player so probbably not the same feels for other factions.

Interesting fact - the new points update allows you to put three Fangs and two MGTs together, in various combinations. For example...

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 41
Zealous Recruit - (41)

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 41
Zealous Recruit - (41)

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 41
Zealous Recruit - (41)

Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 37
Mining Guild Surveyor - (23)
Snap Shot (7)
Hull Upgrade (7)

Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 37
Mining Guild Surveyor - (23)
Snap Shot (7)
Hull Upgrade (7)

Total: 197/200

or...

Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Sentry - 22
Mining Guild Sentry - (22)

Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Sentry - 22
Mining Guild Sentry - (22)

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 54
Zealous Recruit - (41)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 50
Zealous Recruit - (41)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 50
Zealous Recruit - (41)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)

Total: 198/200

are two possibilities.

If you feel options in hyperspace are more limited than extended your probably not building your extended lists correctly or aggressively enough.

Generally speaking extended has maybe 2-4 correct lists that should be brought to tournaments at any given time. Everything else is “wrong”. The power gaps between lists are so severe there is basically an implied ban list built into the format.

Not having 7b and a huge list of other undercosted extended pieces might feel bad for some players who prefer to run the few correct things but it massively opens up the rest of the hyperspace card pools competitive relevance.

I suppose I'm also a little salty that Sinker is gone, not just Torrents. Like, is Sinker really that scary in a 4 ARC list?

Just now, theBitterFig said:

I suppose I'm also a little salty that Sinker is gone, not just Torrents. Like, is Sinker really that scary in a 4 ARC list?

They more or less removed all of the force multiplier dice modding abilities and any sort of action sharing that isn't co-ordinate from Hyperspace. I don't think you can keep Sinker and then not keep Howlrunner. But absent Sinker it doesn't much explain getting rid of all the Torrents.

15 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

They more or less removed all of the force multiplier dice modding abilities and any sort of action sharing that isn't co-ordinate from Hyperspace. I don't think you can keep Sinker and then not keep Howlrunner. But absent Sinker it doesn't much explain getting rid of all the Torrents.

Fair enough. I guess the difference is that Sinker without Torrents doesn't have much of a force to multiply.

1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

Interesting fact - the new points update allows you to put three Fangs and two MGTs together, in various combinations. For example...

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 41
Zealous Recruit - (41)

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 41
Zealous Recruit - (41)

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 41
Zealous Recruit - (41)

Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 37
Mining Guild Surveyor - (23)
Snap Shot (7)
Hull Upgrade (7)

Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 37
Mining Guild Surveyor - (23)
Snap Shot (7)
Hull Upgrade (7)

Total: 197/200

or...

Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Sentry - 22
Mining Guild Sentry - (22)

Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Sentry - 22
Mining Guild Sentry - (22)

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 54
Zealous Recruit - (41)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 50
Zealous Recruit - (41)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)

Fang Fighter - Zealous Recruit - 50
Zealous Recruit - (41)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)

Total: 198/200

are two possibilities.

or...

Fenn Rau (68)
Outmaneuver (6)

Ship total: 74 Half Points: 37 Threshold: 2

Zealous Recruit (41)
Ship total: 41 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

Zealous Recruit (41)
Ship total: 41 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

Mining Guild Sentry (22)
Ship total: 22 Half Points: 11 Threshold: 2

Mining Guild Sentry (22)
Ship total: 22 Half Points: 11 Threshold: 2


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z97X126WY102XY102XY304XY304X&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

OR...

Get rid of the Outmaneuver on Fenn, and swap out a MGT for a Cartel Spacer with a tractor beam.

Gotta work in those tractor beams...