I used the T-21 once or twice in a mix with Shoretroopers.
The units had targeting scopes, the captain and offensive push for 94 points.

That way the unit is pretty much guaranteed to have an aim, sometimes even 2. 13 to 17 white dice with critical 2 are actually pretty decent. It usually results in 3 to 5 critical hits. The output is still worse than shoretroopers, but they do have some advantages that make them a good addition to a gunline:

- The critical hits make them more flexible against a lot of targets like vehicles, Tauntauns in cover or units with guardian.

- They can deal with losses better, because their output is more backloaded. A bigger part of it is concentrated in the heavy weapon and the aim tokens.

- Even with all the extras, they are still cheaper than shoretroopers.

1 hour ago, M.Mustermann said:

I used the T-21 once or twice in a mix with Shoretroopers.
The units had targeting scopes, the captain and offensive push for 94 points.

That way the unit is pretty much guaranteed to have an aim, sometimes even 2. 13 to 17 white dice with critical 2 are actually pretty decent. It usually results in 3 to 5 critical hits. The output is still worse than shoretroopers, but they do have some advantages that make them a good addition to a gunline:

- The critical hits make them more flexible against a lot of targets like vehicles, Tauntauns in cover or units with guardian.

- They can deal with losses better, because their output is more backloaded. A bigger part of it is concentrated in the heavy weapon and the aim tokens.

- Even with all the extras, they are still cheaper than shoretroopers.

13-17 white dice?

2 hours ago, M.Mustermann said:

I used the T-21 once or twice in a mix with Shoretroopers.
The units had targeting scopes, the captain and offensive push for 94 points.

That way the unit is pretty much guaranteed to have an aim, sometimes even 2. 13 to 17 white dice with critical 2 are actually pretty decent. It usually results in 3 to 5 critical hits. The output is still worse than shoretroopers, but they do have some advantages that make them a good addition to a gunline:

- The critical hits make them more flexible against a lot of targets like vehicles, Tauntauns in cover or units with guardian.

- They can deal with losses better, because their output is more backloaded. A bigger part of it is concentrated in the heavy weapon and the aim tokens.

- Even with all the extras, they are still cheaper than shoretroopers.

how did you get 13 dice from a unit that can only produce 9 dice maximum ?

9 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

how did you get 13 dice from a unit that can only produce 9 dice maximum ?

If he’s counting the rerolls as separate dice with scopes it’s +4, double aim +8. But if that’s the case it’s misleading because obviously it’s still max 9 hits (as unlikely as a perfect roll on white dice is). It’s the only way I can make sense of the math.

10 hours ago, Platinum_V said:

If he’s counting the rerolls as separate dice with scopes it’s +4, double aim +8. But if that’s the case it’s misleading because obviously it’s still max 9 hits (as unlikely as a perfect roll on white dice is). It’s the only way I can make sense of the math.

The maximum hits are not as relevant, because you are fishing for crits with the T-21.

It is about average hits and the probability to get a certain minimum of hits past dodge, cover, Armor and so on.

On 2/8/2020 at 2:18 AM, M.Mustermann said:

The maximum hits are not as relevant, because you are fishing for crits with the T-21.

It is about average hits and the probability to get a certain minimum of hits past dodge, cover, Armor and so on.

you still haven't explained your math for a unit which can only roll 9 dice amd yet you mention 13 to 17 dice.

He is saying, if its only the crits that matter because everything else will be blocked by cover or dodge,

5 squaddies + rt97 or t21 gives you 9 dice. An aim with scopes gives you another 4 (so 13). Spend another aim and its potentially 17, disregarding keeping the surges and crits you have rolled along the way. Ceiling being the ideal 9 crits which you wouldn't expect to happen.

Edit wouldnt expect to happen

21 hours ago, Darth evil said:

you still haven't explained your math for a unit which can only roll 9 dice amd yet you mention 13 to 17 dice.

Well, honestly I assumed that you were just trying to troll, especially after Platinum_V pretty much explained it.

I described a setup where you have a full unit of Stormtroopers with 9 White Dice, Precise 2 and one or two aim tokens.

I thought it is quite obvious how you get to the equivalent of 13 respectively 17 white dice in this setting.

Even if you are not going for critical hits to bypass Armor or a combination of heavy cover and guardian or dodge tokens, the difference is more or less irrelevant in game terms.

The difference between 9 white dice, precise 2 and 1 aim tokens vs 13 white dice is almost not existent.

The difference between 9 white dice, precise 2 and 2 aim tokens and 17 white dice is significant on the first glance, but will actually have an effect in less than 20% of all cases (depending on the defence dice of the defender maybe even far less).

(Just in case: The percentages are rounded, so they wont add up to exactly 100% in allof the rows)

My broader point however was another one.

If you are going for raw damage output and efficiency, you are looking at the wrong unit.

Even with the RT-97C, Stormtroopers will never be able to compete with Shoretroopers there, especially with Aggressive Tactics.

Stormtroopers are a viable option if you want a cheap utility unit, usually without a heavy weapon.

Instead, they could also be better than shoretroopers against niche targets with the combination of precise 2 and critical 2.

The maths of the next table might be a bit off, because it is really complex to calulate Crit 2 properly. The percentages should be in the somewhere near of the correct results though.

A unit with T-21 will also generate more or less the same amount of critical hits after having lost 2 or 3 miniatures, which makes them a decent bait to pull an opponent into strike distance of the rest of your gunline.

2 or 3 lost Shoretroopers will affect the damage output of a unit much more.