Hi apologies if this is the wrong place for this, if so please direct me to where I can post.

So I'm doing a beginner EOTE adventure and the group are escaping captivity. My character is also an FSE, but isn't aware of her powers.

So there is a point where 3 stormtroopers attacking us, shooting to kill, and we ran towards the ship we are trying to steal. We got through the blast doors of the hanger and locked them on the other side and proceeded to get into the ship etc. As we were getting ready to leave, the storm troopers blew up the blast doors and were coming in after us. I was on the ventral gun and had an opportunity to attack them before they attacked the ship and the pilot assisted in the roll. So I fired at the masonry above the blast door to knock it down onto all three stormtroopers and succeed. I did not use the force to do so.

However the GM then said that I would move more towards the dark side for that move as I had taken 3 lives. I took 1 strain and I think he may have flipped a destiny chip.

The concept of moving towards the dark side bothered me so I ended up looking into it and saw that he may have been using the morality system and was perhaps using it harshly in my view.

Does that outcome sound right to you? If not should I talk to my GM about it next session?

On 2/4/2020 at 4:56 AM, Gelfling83 said:

Hi apologies if this is the wrong place for this, if so please direct me to where I can post.

So I'm doing a beginner EOTE adventure and the group are escaping captivity. My character is also an FSE, but isn't aware of her powers.

So there is a point where 3 stormtroopers attacking us, shooting to kill, and we ran towards the ship we are trying to steal. We got through the blast doors of the hanger and locked them on the other side and proceeded to get into the ship etc. As we were getting ready to leave, the storm troopers blew up the blast doors and were coming in after us. I was on the ventral gun and had an opportunity to attack them before they attacked the ship and the pilot assisted in the roll. So I fired at the masonry above the blast door to knock it down onto all three stormtroopers and succeed. I did not use the force to do so.

However the GM then said that I would move more towards the dark side for that move as I had taken 3 lives. I took 1 strain and I think he may have flipped a destiny chip.

The concept of moving towards the dark side bothered me so I ended up looking into it and saw that he may have been using the morality system and was perhaps using it harshly in my view.

Does that outcome sound right to you? If not should I talk to my GM about it next session?

No, it does not sound right. The Morality chart grants Conflict for committing murder , and unprovoked violence, not killing in self defense , or the defense of others. You were in a battle situation against Storm Troopers, who were out to kill you. So no Conflict is warranted.

Back up a sec... why were the stormtroopers trying to kill you to begin with?

Yeah, trump is right. Otherwise Luke would’ve become a Sith Lord the moment he blew up the Death Star. Morality is more of a measurement of intent, not a law that always applies flatly. I mean the empire is literally the inst

i mean, I’m the kind of player who thinks my GM can be way too soft in terms of handling conflict, but it seems strange to tax self defence like that.

I spoke to my DM in passing about it and he said that he didn't make it generate conflict this time.

I'll show him this thread with responses from other DMs here, and hopefully that will help the gameplay in the future.

4 hours ago, Vorzakk said:

4 hours ago, Vorzakk said:

Back up a sec... why were the stormtroopers trying to kill you to begin with?

I don't know it may be a different take on the starter campaign. My character has a vision shortly before it, then they looked at my character, shouted "there they are", we ran and then they started firing. The laser colour was red.

I don't know if that makes sense as I'm not familiar with the campaigns, being only my second time playing an EotE campaign. The first time I played, which was years ago, the group ended up disbanding shortly after starting.

This is the first time with the new character.

4 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

No, it does not sound right. The Morality chart grants Conflict for committing murder , and unprovoked violence, not killing in self defense , or the defense of others. You were in a battle situation against Storm Troopers, who were out to kill you. So no Conflict is warranted.

Thanks Tramp Graphics, I'll talk to my DM about it.

3 hours ago, LordBritish said:

Yeah, trump is right. Otherwise Luke would’ve become a Sith Lord the moment he blew up the Death Star. Morality is more of a measurement of intent, not a law that always applies flatly. I mean the empire is literally the inst

i mean, I’m the kind of player who thinks my GM can be way too soft in terms of handling conflict, but it seems strange to tax self defence like that.

Thanks LordBritish.

Great name by the way. Never actually played any of the Ultima games myself, but my brother used to tell me all about them years ago!

Yeah Stormtroopers are literally the Face of the Evil Empire, not mention that's really not how morallity works.

I just played through Fallen Order (and yes it's a video game so obv very different) but in that, there's no question at all thay you're tje good guy, and on the light side, yet you can literally force pull an enemy to you across a room and run them through with your sabre.

In short killing the boys in white is always fine, unless they're already defenceless prisoners or something.

I personally do not use the morality system in terms of a numerical value but instead make it more narrative based for my players. I find it often clunky to use and myself and my players often forget to roll at the end for Conflict resolution, but that may change with my next campaign.

That being said, I wholeheartedly disagree with the adding of conflict in self defense unless it was directly provoked for the sake of killing them. It's a tricky line at times to walk, but with the trigger happy stormtrooper corps, there is very few times where I have considered make it a dark side act to kill them.

Hopefully your GM is willing to express in more detail how they are handling conflict as a whole that may overall explain this particular ruling.

And on another note, whenever there is the opportunity for Conflict, or your decisions seem immoral, the GM should be highlighting this, almost as though he were your conscience, and double checking that you are sure you want to take the "quick and easy path".

Thanks all. I'll talk to my DM next session.

5 hours ago, Stethemessiah said:

yet you can literally force pull an enemy to you across a room and run them through with your sabre.

I think that's a misstep, though. The game letting you do that without commenting on how horrifying it is for the victims, and what doing that says about the main character.

On 2/7/2020 at 6:44 PM, Stan Fresh said:

I think that's a misstep, though. The game letting you do that without commenting on how horrifying it is for the victims, and what doing that says about the main character.

Are you saying any use of the Draw Closer talent should give you conflict?

2 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

Are you saying any use of the Draw Closer talent should give you conflict?

Not every single use, but it definitely tends toward the horrific when portrayed similarly to Fallen Order's depiction of it.

Did I get this right?
You were running from the stormtroopers, reached already your ship and decided to unload the equivalent of heavy artillery fire onto those three poor sobs, despite them having little to no chance to harm you anymore, because small-arms tend to not so well against space ships.

And you called it self-defense? 😉
I kind of get what the GM was thinking.

2 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Did I get this right?
You were running from the stormtroopers, reached already your ship and decided to unload the equivalent of heavy artillery fire onto those three poor sobs, despite them having little to no chance to harm you anymore, because small-arms tend to not so well against space ships.

And you called it self-defense? 😉
I kind of get what the GM was thinking.

If the Storm troopers were able to blow up a set of blast doors , then they weren't using " small arms", they were using some serious fire-power that likely could do some serious damage to the ship.