2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Between the why bothers and the you'd betters, I'm getting a sense of why the devs stay out of here.

I was hoping to drive the point home by picking the obscure faction of intelligent dinosaurs

Nothing really to add... except having reread a books lately a ship called Sgafow Chaser pops up. Also, the Razor Crest would be in the same time frame if you were adding scum stuff.

17 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Two things about the XJ:

A. I'd like to do the Stealth-X. I'm not sure the faction would need another all-Jedi X-Wing.

Yeah, that's fair. Stealth-X is basically the XJ with more interesting tech, so I guess that makes sense.

Of course, with the way X-Wing works these days you could include both in one ship. Make it the XJ series X-Wing (whether it's the XJ3 or XJ5 really doesn't matter) and include a Stealth-X config or modification to give it the extra ability.

17 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

B. I'm already reluctantly including the Stealth-X. I sorta consider the New Jedi Order yet another era, and if I were lumping designs from the Yuuzhan Vong garbage storyline, I would actually make them a Subfaction of the New Republic. I guess even further down the line you have the Galactic Alliance and the Second Civil War, which I guess I would definitely avoid. . .

Oof. Opinions on NJO aside (personally I think it was one of the best things to happen to Legends), I think that's also fair. It would be a shame to have NJO era ships on the NR side and not have their intended opponents. And I don't think a Yuuzhan Vong faction would be interesting, they just don't have small scale ship analogues.

Would probably be best to leave it within the bounds of the Bantam Era.

And yeah, I'd also have no interest in post NJO Galactic Alliance.

17 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Jade's Fire should be Imperial, since she was still The Emperor's Hand at that point.

Not sure what you're thinking of, but Jade's Fire is the ship Mara gets in the Corellian Trilogy. She and Luke later take it to Nirauan in the Hand of Thrawn duology, where it's destroyed.

17 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

OK, I5 it is, with his 1.0 ability intact. Sadly, the callsigns are all over the place. Why he is not Rogue 2 (second in command) is beyond me, but he is also Rogue 9. I found Rogue 7 in Wookieepedia, so, meh.

Hmm, didn't see Rogue 7 on the wookiee page, and I'm not sure where that might be from.

Tycho's callsign history, as far as I'm aware is: Rogue 9 when he joins the squadron under Luke around Hoth; unknown during the first squadron reform under Wedge in the comics - I don't think they ever gave callsigns, and I don't see any in a quick flick through; Rogue 'Null' in the first three X-Wing novels where he's grounded after being captured and only allowed to fly training Z-95s and support shuttles; Rogue 2 in Wedge's renegade Rogue Squadron in the Bacta War; Rogue Leader when Wedge leaves to start up the Wraiths; Rogue 2 when Wedge resumes command of both squadrons in Solo Command, continuing with the callsign through Isard's Revenge and the Thrawn Trilogy; Rogue Leader when Wedge finally accepts promotion and serves as General aboard the Lusankya.

18 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

And technically, I haven't even tossed in the Millennium Falcon, which would make yet another faction appearance. . .

May as well go all out with the Falcon if it's going to be in yet another faction.

Give it the lightning gun from Dark Empire. Include a Millennium Falsehood title/pilot that includes some bonkers rules to make it a weird decoy ship.

17 hours ago, KCDodger said:

At least the ships are actually different models.

Barely.

And... so are the NR versions. They just look more similar. Until you get to those models that don't, like the XJ.

Also, that's totally shifting the goal posts. The Resistance is still X-Wings, Y-Wings, A-Wings and the Falcon. That's still "the Rebels with extra steps", just one of those steps is a slight visual tweak. You can't call out a theoretical faction for that without accepting it's true of an existing faction.

7 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

The Hawkbats are Scum pilots. They work for the new republic, in secret, but they have Scum restrictions.

What does that mean? What Scum restrictions?

The Hawkbats are very much NR faction. They make a point of restricting themselves to Imperial targets. The Hawkbat personas are total bluster. It's a paper thin disguise that's nearly exposed several times by their unwillingess to do anything actually Scummy. The worst thing they do is shoot one of their own to throw off Zsinj's suspicions, and Dia, who pulls the trigger, is traumatised by it despite only doing it because she was convinced he was already dead.

They're still commission NR officers. They still act as an official squadron from time to time during the operation, and they're fully assigned to the Mon Remonda for the final third of the campaign. If anything, they're more officially NR than the Rogues were during the Bacta War where they actually resigned their commission.

More straightforward than that, though, the Wraiths flew TIEs in several operations alongside Rogue Squadron (Selaggis and the destruction of the Razor's Kiss most prominently). If you made the Wraiths Scum faction in the game, you couldn't fly them alongside the Rogues.

That wouldn't be right.

6 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

But. . .<<spoilers>>, TIE Droids, Scimitar Bombers, and

SKIPRAY BLASTBOATS.

Skiprays should be main Imperial faction, tbf.

They're the perfect medium base replacement for the Firespray they lost going into 2e.

Don't know if you've already done it yourself, but I've had a go at making a 2e Skipray (just needs a couple more pilots and a finalised dial). Might give you some ideas if you wanted.

Also, don't forget Zsinj's TIE Raptors, the Invids' TIE Clutches, I-7 Howlrunners and Preybird Starfighters all eventually being used by the remnant.

While I would love to see skipray blastboats in the game, iirc they were primarily depicted in the books as being used by Talon Karrde's organization so they should be scum. Though I wouldn't object to them being duel faction 😁 .

BTL-SB3 Y-Wing:

Mostly making an appearance to reuse plastic, the Y-Wing continues to be a part of all the "Light Side" factions. As @GuacCousteau rightly points out, the Rebel Y-Wing actually has the wrong designation: The -A4 should feature a better primary weapon with either a front-locked turret or no turret at all (since it only has a single pilot). Luckily, there is a variant of a variant that allows for an interesting in-game mechanic IMHO, so I'm going to go with the "heavy ship buster" -SB3 version.

Also, instead of trying to make the the ship chassis extra tough, I've elected to have the pilot abilities make the ship into a "dreadnaught hunter." Also, there is a paucity of New Republic Y-Wing pilots, so Horten Salm gets to make another appearance.

Other generic squadrons: Champion Squadron, Warden Squadron, Guardian Squadron, Green Squadon.

Ther is no reason to add these two new factions to the game, but I would love to see some more Legends ships (for Rebels and Empire): TIE Hunter, TIE Avenger, Nssis Clawcraft, Skypray Blastboat and T-Wing.

1 hour ago, Odanan said:

Ther is no reason to add these two new factions to the game,

Yeah, that's what everyone said about PT factions two. But I'm betting those factions are currently doing the heavy lifting for FFG financially right now.

Quote

but I would love to see some more Legends ships (for Rebels and Empire): TIE Hunter, TIE Avenger, Nssis Clawcraft, Skypray Blastboat and T-Wing.

Me, too. So here are my arguments for NOT dumping them into the Empire and Rebels:

A. Those factions are "complete." Which has the following advantages:

a. They have enough ships to do what a faction needs to do within the framework of XWM.

b. They are pretty well balanced. Dumping new material into them risks unbalancing them.

c. They have all the ships we see in media; ergo, they are canon with a few exceptions. If they get new ships, I think those should also be canon (ergo, TIE Brute, Zeta Shuttle, etc.).

B. Adding EU ships as independent factions has the following advantages:

a. The excitement of players getting into a faction at the beginning and playing it as it grows.

b. Some ships like the TIE Hunter and TIE Avenger simply duplicate roles already present in those older factions. In a new faction, they go from being another interceptor to the interceptor.

c. These factions are non-canon. I guess in the long run, I would fall into a purist camp of "I want these ships, but they no longer make sense in the story arcs of the PT/OT/ST."

d. As I have pointed out, enough ships overlap that. . .

1. The faction is up-and-ready with a cardboard conversion for existing plastic

2. The overlap are the actual classic canon ships. Ergo, no complaints about "all these EU ships make the game not look like Star Wars."

C. New factions is just new options. I think having 9 ways to listbuild is better than 7.

a. Those not interested just ignore it.

b. Those who are interested probably already have half the faction in their Plano Box already. . .buy a CK starter to change your X-, B-, Y-, E-, K-, A- wings into New Republic and then start adding on the EU ships.

c. It basically only means you can't fly the Ghost with A-9 Interceptors, for example, because Wrong Era and Not Canon. Unless you are at home, of course.

On 2/3/2020 at 7:30 PM, Darth Meanie said:

Did the Rogues ever have A-Wings? Wouldn't Tycho have been in a different squadron at that point in his career?

As for alternate pilots for a Legends New Republic faction, I'd like to see:

Voort "Piggy" saBinring

Wraith Twelve

I4

T-65 X-Wing (With White Calculate rather than Focus)

After you perform a <calculate> action, you may gain a deplete token to perform a red <coordinate> action.

StealthX

The good guys get a cloaked ship, but with a catch: if the ship is running any instrumentation at all, it's not actually cloaked. Thus, pilots of the StealthX must rely on their Force senses to guide the ship while "running silent". . .

Initial ideas. Aces will get 2 Force; recover 1. I wonder if the ship ability should include "execute a 2 OR DECLOAK.

Can I ask what you're using to make the cards? They're really well formatted

5 minutes ago, Prosk_019 said:

Can I ask what you're using to make the cards? They're really well formatted

Strange Eons.

And while I'm at it, I should thank @Hinnyboy for including my suggestion that points and slots can be made to appear on-card.

It makes all this fun possible with a no extra documentation.

19 hours ago, KarlVonCarstein said:

While I would love to see skipray blastboats in the game, iirc they were primarily depicted in the books as being used by Talon Karrde's organization so they should be scum. Though I wouldn't object to them being duel faction 😁 .

I don't know about 'primarily'. Karrde only had a couple. Two appear in Heir to the Empire and are both destroyed when Mara chases Luke, one shows up in Dark Force Rising. They're not exactly a staple of his organisation.

The Skipray Blastboat was invented for the original Star Wars pen and paper RPG and debuted in the Imperial Sourcebook. Zahn cribbed heavily off the Imperial Sourcebook when writing the Thrawn trilogy, and most of the vehicles and vessels he uses come from there. The Skipray was definitely an Imperial craft. Karrde just happened to nab a few after the start of the Empire's decline. Saying they're not an Imperial ship primarily is like saying the TIE Interceptor isn't an Imperial ship either because the Wraiths used some.

I also don't think they add much to the Scum faction from a gameplay perspective. Scum has a lot of potent medium base ships that already fill a similar role, from the Firespray through the Aggressor to the G1-A.

The Empire has a big hole when it comes to offensively minded medium base ships. They only have the Reaper, which is primarily a support ship with quirky movement.

19 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

BTL-SB3 Y-Wing:

Luckily, there is a variant of a variant that allows for an interesting in-game mechanic IMHO, so I'm going to go with the "heavy ship buster" -SB3 version.

Also, instead of trying to make the the ship chassis extra tough, I've elected to have the pilot abilities make the ship into a "dreadnaught hunter." Also, there is a paucity of New Republic Y-Wing pilots, so Horten Salm gets to make another appearance.

There's some nice, if niche, pilot ideas here but the ship ability doesn't work. 'While Evading' isn't a timing indicator, it's a condition. 'Evading', per FFG's language, just means having an evade token. As written, there's nothing to tell you when the ability triggers. Look at Dengar and Quickdraw for examples of wording for making bonus attacks. You need a definitive timing in which to make the attack. As it's an evasive thing, I'm guessing the intention was to be after you defend? The other problem here is that the Y-Wing has no way of getting an evade token, so the condition doesn't work either. If by 'evading' you meant defending, then you need to be clearer with your language. As above, Evading is a defined term in second edition that means having an evade token.

I think it's good to make this bonus attack somewhat conditional, though. So why not use an action the Y-Wing does have? Locks are a good shout, and seem to fit with the fluff of what you want this turret to do.

Also, while the rules state that you can only make one bonus attack per round anyway, I think it's interesting that both Quickdraw and Dengar also use the charge mechanism. It's arguably not necessary, but I think it's a good way of tracking the ability. If Dengar gets shot multiple times around, you might forget if you triggered his ability on the first attack by the time the third rolls around. Having to spend a charge as soon as you decide to use the ability gives you a visual marker that you've used the ability this round.

So I think it would make sense to use the charge mechanic here too. Something like "After you defend, if you have a lock on the attacker you may spend 1 [charge] to perform a bonus [turret] attack. "

Make the timing and condition whatever you want, but that's the sort of wording you want to use.

Also, the cost needs to go way up.

You've currently got your I1 2 points cheaper than the Rebel I2 Gray Squadron, despite the stats being identical and gaining a bonus attack ability. Bonus attacks are really strong. You've basically given them Veteran Turret Gunner as a ship ability. A single point of Initiative also isn't really worth 2 points. I'd say the Lightning Squadron Pilot needs to be a good 6 or 7 points more expensive, and you can probably apply a similar curve to the rest of the pilots. It's a bit discounted vs VTG because of the lock requirement on the bonus attack. But I'd probably stretch the gap between the higher Initiatives and their Rebel equivalents as locks are easier to get at higher initiatives and bonus attacks get better as they stand a better chance of Initiative killing an opponent. Horton, for example, should be paying for his increase in Initiative over his Rebel equivalent and at I5 should be paying the full equivalent cost to having Veteran Turret Gunner. This Horton Salm should be 48 points.

14 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Did the Rogues ever have A-Wings? Wouldn't Tycho have been in a different squadron at that point in his career?

Depends what you go by, I guess.

They never use A-Wings in the novels or the original comics. Tycho does use an A-Wing in the Rogue Leader comics that came out alongside the Gamecube game of the same name, and the Rogues also use A-Wings in the Rogue Squadron games. But the games are set almost entirely before and during Endor, and the Rogue Leader comic is set just after. Tycho flew an A-Wing at Endor, while he was technically still part of Rogue Squadron. He was assigned temporarily to Green Squadron for the battle, though.

I don't believe Tycho flies an A-Wing in any material after the formation of the New Republic.

14 hours ago, JJ48 said:

As for alternate pilots for a Legends New Republic faction, I'd like to see:

Voort "Piggy" saBinring

Wraith Twelve

I4

T-65 X-Wing (With White Calculate rather than Focus)

After you perform a <calculate> action, you may gain a deplete token to perform a red <coordinate> action.

This is a really cool ability and so, so close to being perfect, IMO.

But I think taking a deplete and a stress is too punishing given that you've already downgraded his focus to a calculate.

Either make it just a red action, or have him take a deplete to perform a white coordinate.

Beyond that, I love it. It's so spot on to Piggy in the books, and such a unique thing to give an organic the calculate action.

@Darth Meanie I don't know if you'd rather just do all this from scratch as part of the fun of custom content, but in case you're interested this is the Skipray I came up with:

The GAT-12h is supposedly the most common model. I thought about configs for the variants, but honestly the differences are so minor they're basically covered by the slots and what upgrades you take anyway. The hardpoint ability is basically the easiest way to implement the variants and loadout options. And yes, the extra cannon slot is intentional. Some versions of the Skipray have ion cannons and tractor beams. The slots are to allow you to run that variant.

This is a medium base designed to fill the niche in the Imperial faction left by the Firespray becoming Scum only. It's a medium base that can shoot from multiple arcs and carry cannons or ordnance with a crew slot. It's got a weaker primary and worse agility than the Firespray, but it's also one of the few ships to get a native white jam action. And naturally it's significantly cheaper. I still need to work out the dial, but I'm thinking probably the Firespray dial with the 4 forward and 3 banks red, and s-loops instead of tallon rolls.

Logro Elsin, by the way, is a random Galaxies pilot. He hangs around an Imperial officer so that the officer can escape at a moment's notice. I figured that escape ship could have been a Skipray, so he gets the job.

@GuacCousteau I don't disagree that the skipray was designed as an imperial ship, but it's primary refrence in legends is the ones Karrde had. And he did have more than 2 of them, he loaned one to Mara in dark force rising. He only had two on myrker at the time that Luke was held there. Seems like a good opportunity to add Mara Jade as a pilot.

I like your thoughts for the skipray, but those look based around a large based ship. I'd think the skipray was more medium base and I'd increase its agility to 2 and decrease its hull and shields to 5 and 3 respectively.

18 hours ago, JJ48 said:

As for alternate pilots for a Legends New Republic faction, I'd like to see:

Voort "Piggy" saBinring

Wraith Twelve

I4

T-65 X-Wing (With White Calculate rather than Focus)

After you perform a <calculate> action, you may gain a deplete token to perform a red <coordinate> action.

The one I made was so similar. I gave him calculate, with the ability “after you perform a calculate, gain an additional calculate. You may treat focus on upgrade cards as calculate.” Also I4.

I like what you did as well, but I would make it less penalizing for that cost. Either no cost just a red coordinate after calc, or a cost for a white coordinate

22 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

BTL-SB3 Y-Wing:

Can you explain how you intend the ship ability to work? How do they get an Evade token? They can just take the bonus attack at any point when they have an evade token? Even on other ship's/playeer's activation?

13 minutes ago, KarlVonCarstein said:

@GuacCousteau I don't disagree that the skipray was designed as an imperial ship, but it's primary refrence in legends is the ones Karrde had.

Again, I disagree that's the primary reference.

It's one prominent example. Just because the Thrawn Trilogy is particularly well known, doesn't mean that it overrides all the other sources that describe the Skipray as an Imperial designed and deployed ship.

There's enough examples of its use by non Imperials that I guess a Scum version could be warranted, but I find that less satisfying than using it to fill a gap in the Imperial faction. Even if it would get Mara on the board as a pilot.

14 minutes ago, KarlVonCarstein said:

And he did have more than 2 of them, he loaned one to Mara in dark force rising.

3 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

Karrde only had a couple. Two appear in Heir to the Empire and are both destroyed when Mara chases Luke, one shows up in Dark Force Rising.

Yes I know. I said that.

I don't believe the three craft owned by Karrde's syndicate really make them particularly emblematic. Not in the same way the Wild Karrde is.

14 minutes ago, KarlVonCarstein said:

I like your thoughts for the skipray, but those look based around a large based ship.

3 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

This is a medium base designed to fill the niche in the Imperial faction left by the Firespray becoming Scum only. It's a medium base that can shoot from multiple arcs...

No, it's designed to be a medium base ship. Again, I said that.

15 minutes ago, KarlVonCarstein said:

I'd think the skipray was more medium base and I'd increase its agility to 2 and decrease its hull and shields to 5 and 3 respectively.

The stats are based around other current medium base, heavy attack ships like the ARC-170, K-Wing, Kimogila and G1-A.

For reference:

All of those are 1 agility, 9HP ships.

The Skipray is not a maneuverable ship. It isn't more agile than a Y-Wing. It's bigger and more sluggish than an ARC-170 and a Kimogila.

The Skipray gets an extra HP versus these other medium base ships, but it also has lower primary attack power than all of them. 1HP probably isn't enough to make up for a single arc 2 dice turret vs the 3 dice primaries or bow tie arc of the above ships, but the rest of the gap will be made up for with the costing, dial and available upgrades. The Skipray is most similar to the G1-A with its cannon slot and white jam action, but it has a better dial, extra ordnance and a gunner slot.

I feel like the stats I gave it are pretty consistent with the other medium base ships already in the game of similar size and mission profile. If anything, it's a little behind the curve being the only one without access to any sort of reposition action.

In addition, a 2 agility, 8HP statline puts it in the same area as the TIE Reaper. There's no need for them to overlap that much.

I'm not trying to force this down your throat or anything, just trying to justify the design choices by pointing out the thought that went into them.

33 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Can you explain how you intend the ship ability to work? How do they get an Evade token? They can just take the bonus attack at any point when they have an evade token? Even on other ship's/playeer's activation?

No I can't. (Or, yes I can, I need Y-Wings to have an action they don't.}

As an Imperial player, I'm used to every ship having Evade. Doh. Gotta rework that for sure, so thanks to you and @GuacCousteau for pointing out I'm a bonehead.

B-Wing/E

As it turns out, FFG got the nomenclature slightly wrong for the B-Wing as well. The -E2 was a single ship used by Admiral Akbar that had a 3rd seat added for Leia to ride shotgun. The mainline mod is the -E, which in 2E should add a gunner as was suggested by @GuacCousteau . Also, since the -E is slightly clunkier than the Rebel B-Wing, I stapled the S-Foil cannon abilities without the extra actions to make them tankier without movement/action options.

And we can bring back Keyan Farlander. Do we dare let him have Force talent AND a B-Wing??

@Darth Meanie So, just, food for thought. Have you considered that FFG didn't get the nomenclature wrong, so much as it's the one that's being used for non-legends, canon versions of the craft?

Also not to be a debbie downer but most of those Y-Wing abilities are the same. Don't you think that maybe you should make it a chassis ability to perform better against large ships, rather than a pilot ability? That allows each pilot to interact with the chassis differently.

6 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

This is a really cool ability and so, so close to being perfect, IMO.

But I think taking a deplete and a stress is too punishing given that you've already downgraded his focus to a calculate.

Either make it just a red action, or have him take a deplete to perform a white coordinate.

Beyond that, I love it. It's so spot on to Piggy in the books, and such a unique thing to give an organic the calculate action.

2 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

The one I made was so similar. I gave him calculate, with the ability “after you perform a calculate, gain an additional calculate. You may treat focus on upgrade cards as calculate.” Also I4.

I like what you did as well, but I would make it less penalizing for that cost. Either no cost just a red coordinate after calc, or a cost for a white coordinate

Yeah, I was concerned a Coordinate on an X-Wing might be strong, but perhaps I erred too much the other way. I think I prefer keeping the Deplete and making the Coordinate white.

I also like the idea of being able to treat Focus on upgrades as Calculates.

4 hours ago, KCDodger said:

@Darth Meanie So, just, food for thought. Have you considered that FFG didn't get the nomenclature wrong, so much as it's the one that's being used for non-legends, canon versions of the craft?

Also not to be a debbie downer but most of those Y-Wing abilities are the same. Don't you think that maybe you should make it a chassis ability to perform better against large ships, rather than a pilot ability? That allows each pilot to interact with the chassis differently.

I think the -E2 should be a unique Title, then.

As for the Ys, you might have something there. Especially since my Defensive Turret idea is a bust. Then, I could just design "Defensive Turret" as a new turret, maybe even making it BTL-SB3 only.

Like 2 dice, R1-2. You may also spend a focus token to use this turret as a bonus attack.

7 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I think the -E2 should be a unique Title, then.

As for the Ys, you might have something there. Especially since my Defensive Turret idea is a bust. Then, I could just design "Defensive Turret" as a new turret, maybe even making it BTL-SB3 only.

Like 2 dice, R1-2. You may also spend a focus token to use this turret as a bonus attack.

Here's an idea for a defensive turret - make it a gunner of some sort if you want as an alternative, "When attacked, you must rotate your (turret arc) to face the most recent attacker."

Thinking back to some of the much earlier comments about pilots from the EU, I couldn’t help but lament about how the A-Wing in 2.0 lacks variety in pilots or even high initiative ones above 4. Here’s my theory for rectifying that some while thematically sticking more with the old Rogue Squadron books:

Tycho being in either an A-Wing or X-Wing is fine by me, as he flew the X heavily in the books. Add in Airen Cracken’s son, Pash Cracken as an A-Wing ace. While he did fly X’s with Rogue, he was well-known for his exploits as a squadron leader of A-Wings. His ability could either be a self-enhancing ability, or a benefit to nearby A-Wings/Rebel ships (depending on preference).

Thoughts?

3 hours ago, RipleyDH said:

.Add in Airen Cracken’s son, Pash Cracken as an A-Wing ace. While he did fly X’s with Rogue, he was well-known for his exploits as a squadron leader of A-Wings. His ability could either be a self-enhancing ability, or a benefit to nearby A-Wings/Rebel ships (depending on preference).

Thoughts?

On 2/3/2020 at 6:30 PM, Darth Meanie said:

RZ-1 A-Wing Mk II

I guess my main thought is "are you reading this thread?"

I am, but when I saw the previous posts I didn’t see any others but Tycho. Sorry for missing them. Also, the red reload for the A-Wing, coupled with the rear arc, just makes it way too strong. Basically means unlimited Prockets if you can fly the fighter right.