1 hour ago, DrakonLord said:

Look, i disagree.

Just looking at the effects of other 20pt admirals then 25pt admirals he fits in with the 25pt range better.

Likewise the average fleet size is about 4 combat ships (you have 2ship fleets and 8ship fleets, theres so many builds but the most common i see is 3-4) and lets say he procc's on all those ships at least once.

Slaved turrets (6pts) is the cheapest turbo that adds a red dice. If we gave those 4 ships ST youll have paid 24pts (6×4). Here romondi gives the 'same' effect on all the ships in your fleet (add 1 red die), without using the turbo slot or restricting you to 1 attack, for a small opportunity cost (needs obstruction)

Ill reiterate. Hes not OP, hes not broken, but if i only had 20-30pts for an admiral? Id choose romondi 9/10 times

If he procs on 4 ships just once each, I don’t even know if that makes him very good. Even if you count that as 8 extra red dice over the course of a game, that’s what, another 5-7 damage (and yes, hitting the bonus accuracy or double can be awesome at the right moment, but a significant portion of the time it’s just gonna be a redundant accuracy or a blank)? I mean, 20 points for an admiral who nets you half a dozen damage throughout the game (probably on different targets) and maybe forces you into hitting a couple rocks seems okaaay, but not amazing.

That said, I think he’s pretty good. I’m a buyer on Romodi. But he’s not a “windmill slam” over Jerjerrod or even Ozzel to me. I may change my mind once I use him or face off against him. And it is my hope that he IS good. I just think 20 looks about right.

4 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

If he procs on 4 ships just once each, I don’t even know if that makes him very good. Even if you count that as 8 extra red dice over the course of a game, that’s what, another 5-7 damage (and yes, hitting the bonus accuracy or double can be awesome at the right moment, but a significant portion of the time it’s just gonna be a redundant accuracy or a blank)? I mean, 20 points for an admiral who nets you half a dozen damage throughout the game (probably on different targets) and maybe forces you into hitting a couple rocks seems okaaay, but not amazing.

That said, I think he’s pretty good. I’m a buyer on Romodi. But he’s not a “windmill slam” over Jerjerrod or even Ozzel to me. I may change my mind once I use him or face off against him. And it is my hope that he IS good. I just think 20 looks about right.

Exactly though. If he proccs only 4 times in the game, thats an extra 5-7 damage. Thats the absolute MINIMUM id expect to see him proc

Hes not going to procc only 4 times a game, obstruction is soo easy to get if he isnt proccing on each ship 2-4 times then your flying extremely poorly. If he proccs 3 times on each of the 4 ships thats what, 15 or so extra damage a game? Yeah thats cool for a 20pts admiral to do

58 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:

Exactly though. If he proccs only 4 times in the game, thats an extra 5-7 damage. Thats the absolute MINIMUM id expect to see him proc

Hes not going to procc only 4 times a game, obstruction is soo easy to get if he isnt proccing on each ship 2-4 times then your flying extremely poorly. If he proccs 3 times on each of the 4 ships thats what, 15 or so extra damage a game? Yeah thats cool for a 20pts admiral to do

5 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

If he procs on 4 ships just once each, I don’t even know if that makes him very good. Even if you count that as 8 extra red dice over the course of a game, that’s what, another 5-7 damage (and yes, hitting the bonus accuracy or double can be awesome at the right moment, but a significant portion of the time it’s just gonna be a redundant accuracy or a blank)? I mean, 20 points for an admiral who nets you half a dozen damage throughout the game (probably on different targets) and maybe forces you into hitting a couple rocks seems okaaay, but not amazing.

That said, I think he’s pretty good. I’m a buyer on Romodi. But he’s not a “windmill slam” over Jerjerrod or even Ozzel to me. I may change my mind once I use him or face off against him. And it is my hope that he IS good. I just think 20 looks about right.

Assuming you are in a perfect world. Where all your ships magically have double arcs, magically not running over obstacles trying to get Romodi to work, Not dying from enemy ships, not dying from enemy squadrons. Assuming you have 4 combat ships with potent enough pools to deal damage to bypass evades all focused on a single target. Again, not losing a ship to say.... Demolisher, Ackbar, First/Last Shenanigans, SSDs, Admonition, Squadrons.

Yes Romodi is undercosted in a perfect world guys. WE SHOULD TOTALLY NERF HIM. It's not like half of your combat ships are flotillas most of the time anyways.

2 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

Assuming you are in a perfect world. Where all your ships magically have double arcs, magically not running over obstacles trying to get Romodi to work, Not dying from enemy ships, not dying from enemy squadrons. Assuming you have 4 combat ships with potent enough pools to deal damage to bypass evades all focused on a single target. Again, not losing a ship to say.... Demolisher, Ackbar, First/Last Shenanigans, SSDs, Admonition, Squadrons.

Yes Romodi is undercosted in a perfect world guys. WE SHOULD TOTALLY NERF HIM. It's not like half of your combat ships are flotillas most of the time anyways.

I did manage to finish off a damaged mc75 with a side shot from a gozanti on Friday. 1 blue, obstructed with Romodi gave me blue and red, and I had chosen a CF dial and had 2 blue and 1 red. mC75 had 8 damage cards and I put 3 damage in to it which was enoug, even with its brace, to finish it.

Romodi is certainly circumstantially useful. Worth bearing in mind that your opponent will, once they see you have Romodi, place half the obstacles in inconvenient places where you can't exploit them. You really need 2nd player so you can choose obstacly objectives.

13 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

see what I mean...

Bring squads and outdeploy him. Bring Ezra to move an obstacle. Etc.

5 hours ago, Bertie Wooster said:

Bring squads and outdeploy him. Bring Ezra to move an obstacle. Etc.

I know, just joking should've included the /s

10 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

Assuming you are in a perfect world. Where all your ships magically have double arcs, magically not running over obstacles trying to get Romodi to work, Not dying from enemy ships, not dying from enemy squadrons. Assuming you have 4 combat ships with potent enough pools to deal damage to bypass evades all focused on a single target. Again, not losing a ship to say.... Demolisher, Ackbar, First/Last Shenanigans, SSDs, Admonition, Squadrons.

Yes Romodi is undercosted in a perfect world guys. WE SHOULD TOTALLY NERF HIM. It's not like half of your combat ships are flotillas most of the time anyways.

Oh yes, all my above posts are assuming a perfect world, i even say above im ignoring range, upgrades, etc. Thats the point, you cant assume every situation unless your a supercomputer, thats why i chose 2, pretty average situations. 2 fleets of 4 ships (average size), proccing only a couple times per ship (average), etc

You want to see a perfect fleet and situation? Fine.

Romondi and 8 raiders. They all fly speed 4 into medium range turn 2 without losing any. The enemy fleet rolls all blanks while attacking and each raider gets an obstructed shot rolling perfect damage and blows up the entire enemy fleet turn 2.

See? I can make up stupid situations too 😜

Im not, for the 3rd time, saying hes overpowered, or broken as all heck. Im saying compared to all the other 20pts admirals on both sides hes far and away the best.

Admiral dodonna,20pts. You need to be doing face up damage and outside of rare situations wont come into effect till turn 3 or later. Great and one of my favs but at the end of the day, the enemy ship is still getting a faceup and its still going to be nasty with or without dodonna.

Admiral ozzel, 20pts. You have to be using manouver commands and he doesnt add damage to the enemy ships. Great for getting your ships to engage on their terms.

Admiral agate. 1. 1! Ship gets an extra non scatter defense token that cant be locked down.

Still not convinced? *shrugs*

If every ship in the average 4 ship fleet gets 1 obstructed shot in the entire game, its the equivalent of:

Getting 4 slaved turret upgrades (24pts) or

Getting 4 concentrate fire effects without a dial or token

AND getting the Jainas light (2pts) title for the cr90 at the same time.

If you want to argue getting the extra dice is discounted to 20pts thats fine. He should be at minimum 22pts then for the ignores obstruction effect as well.

You dont see admirals getting the -add to the fleet- effect till the 24pt mark with motti adding health, or garm/tagge adding tokens at 25pts. Yet here romondi is not only giving you an effect of ignoring obstruction, but also adding a dice!

4th time reminder, hes not game breaking, hes not over powered, hes not a auto include, but at 20pts hes too close to being one

@DrakonLord Posting in a fit of Insomnia at 5am probably didn't help my argument. Personally I am glad he is around. Hopefully he can make MSU a bit more viable with the imperials. They really need help with that sorta game play.

11 hours ago, DrakonLord said:

If he proccs 3 times on each of the 4 ships thats what, 15 or so extra damage a game? Yeah thats cool for a 20pts admiral to do

Whoa. 3 x 4 = 12. That’s 12 RED dice, which is generous, considering you have to be bringing 4 combat-ready ships to begin with, and like, that’s not always easy to do; MSU fleets aren’t exactly the most reliable in a world of Starhawks and SSDs, right? But let’s say you get an ISD and 3 Arqs, all doing their thing, and they DO get 3 procs each on Romodi. There’s your 12 dice. Yeah, they could spike and get you as many as 24 damage, but MY reds usually come up with blanks and redundant accuracies. I would consider myself very lucky to wind up with 8 or 10 more damage out of that. I think 15 damage is extraordinarily optimistic.

And honestly, if you can get 3 SHOTS out of each of 4 real combat ships, you’re already flying really well. Never mind having to set up obstruction for all of those.

1 hour ago, DrakonLord said:

Admiral agate. 1. 1! Ship gets an extra non scatter defense token that cant be locked down.

1 ship gets an extra token. Every ship gets the discard to resolve ability on all their tokens, though only one per attack.

Just now, The Jabbawookie said:

1 ship gets an extra token. Every ship gets the discard to resolve ability on all their tokens, though only one per attack.

Since when did Agate work on other ships for the discard?

9 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Since when did Agate work on other ships for the discard?

You’re right. That’s also not how Agate works.

...what have I been on this week?

Deathsticks.

2 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

@DrakonLord Posting in a fit of Insomnia at 5am probably didn't help my argument. Personally I am glad he is around. Hopefully he can make MSU a bit more viable with the imperials. They really need help with that sorta game play.

Hes definitely gonna make things a bit more interesting id like to see a small base imperial ship or 2 be released now as well

2 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Whoa. 3 x 4 = 12. That’s 12 RED dice, which is generous, considering you have to be bringing 4 combat-ready ships to begin with, and like, that’s not always easy to do; MSU fleets aren’t exactly the most reliable in a world of Starhawks and SSDs, right? But let’s say you get an ISD and 3 Arqs, all doing their thing, and they DO get 3 procs each on Romodi. There’s your 12 dice. Yeah, they could spike and get you as many as 24 damage, but MY reds usually come up with blanks and redundant accuracies. I would consider myself very lucky to wind up with 8 or 10 more damage out of that. I think 15 damage is extraordinarily optimistic.

And honestly, if you can get 3 SHOTS out of each of 4 real combat ships, you’re already flying really well. Never mind having to set up obstruction for all of those.

Once again. Obstruction is extraordinary easy to set up. You have 6 obstacles and every ship on the board as a potential source.

If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball. If you can avoid obstruction you can get obstruction.

As for red dice, you have a 2/8 chance of missing? So with 12 dice you have about 3 blanks on average with every other face having damage or an acc, and this is with the faction that has the most ways to reroll dice?

Also, 12 red dice. For bringing 4 ships you get more than a ISDs front arc dice over the course of the game for 20pts.

As for not being easy to bring 4 combat ships to the table, even your flotillas can be run as combat vessels, dont be thick.

Fleet 750 (65/395/400) ====================== Victory II-class Star Destroyer (85 + 36: 121) + General Romodi (20) + Gunnery Team (7) + Disposable Capacitors (3) + XI7 Turbolasers (6) Victory II-class Star Destroyer (85 + 16: 101) + Gunnery Team (7) + Disposable Capacitors (3) + XI7 Turbolasers (6) Arquitens-class Light Cruiser (54 + 7: 61) + Linked Turbolaser Towers (7) Raider I-class Corvette (44 + 3: 47) + External Racks (3) 3 x Tie Interceptor Squadron (3 x 11) 4 x Tie Fighter Squadron (4 x 😎

Bam, 4 combat ships and it took me all of a minute to build change the arquitens for 2 gozantis and a extra upgrade or so and wow what do you know, you know have 2 more ways to generate obstruction and gain shots on.

We’re really descending into pedantry, here. I understand your points, and I understand that it’s totally possible to build a 4+ ship fleet and get some obstruction. It’s just that you’re treating it all as if it’s totally trivial, and then pretending that you’re going to roll like the devil himself and get an imaginary 15 damage from a sort-of-hand-wavey projection of 12 dice. Yeah, might happen! Probably not, though. Romodi’s real value isn’t likely to be a constant stream of extra dice, anyway. It’s much more likely to be a matter of a couple of important, impactful, well-timed attacks where the extras really help you pile on and break your opponent’s ship.

As for your math on how much a fleet commander ought to be worth, I don’t think this is as precise a science as you’re trying to make it out to be. Check it out:

Ackbar. Ackbar costs 38 points. Let’s say you have three combat ships in your Ackbar fleet. We’ll say they’re AFMkII-Bs. Ackbar on an AFMkII -B is essentially like having both Enhanced Armament AND Slaved Turrets on it at the same time (two Turbolasers! Two Modifications!) except that the ship isn’t using its Modification slot OR its Turbolaser slot. And just using hard numbers, that’s 16 points of “bonus” upgrade per ship. With three ships, that means that Ackbar “ought” to cost 48 points, not 38. And then consider that you can actually stack this WITH Enhanced Armaments, Quad Battery Turrets, or any other Turbolaser you like? From a sheer points perspective, Ackbar seems to be absolutely busted!

But he’s not.

Is he good? Sure he is! In some fleets, he’s fantastic! But he’s probably costed about right.

You can’t just take a Commander, do a little math, and expect that it’s always going to work out. And when you’re trying to say that Romodi is worth 3 Slaved Turrets plus 3 Jaina’s Light titles, and therefore ought to be worth 24 points or so, I’m afraid I’m unconvinced. There are gonna be games where you roll out Romodi, use a sneaky obstructed shot with a Concentrate dial from your Gozanti Assault Carrier, rip 4 damage and an Accuracy, and kill a hurting Liberty with it, and then on the following turn, Romodi chucks you another couple of dice and your Onager rolls ten damage from just reds in its pool and blows away an untouched Pelta or something, and you come away thinking Romodi ought to cost 25 or 30 points. And then you’ll have games where you get him to proc like, three times, you keep accidentally ramming your own ships and hitting asteroids, and half your dice come up blank, and you’ll walk away thinking he’d be too expensive at 15 points.

The truth is probably somewhere in between.

So if a ship with a single dice attack is obstructed you normally can’t gather dice to attack.

So if Romodi is in play I take it you can gather dice as it’s a plus one? And the normal obstruction rules doesn’t apply?Otherwise, Romodi would be pretty limited.

46 minutes ago, ISD Avenger said:

So if a ship with a single dice attack is obstructed you normally can’t gather dice to attack.

So if Romodi is in play I take it you can gather dice as it’s a plus one? And the normal obstruction rules doesn’t apply?Otherwise, Romodi would be pretty limited.

You would ordinarily gather, but discard before rolling.

We were given advice previously thst “cancelled if you cannot gather” is intended to be “gather AND roll.”

The obstacle rules apply - you are just not losing the die for the obstruction portion - this is VERY important in the case of dust fields.