Please @ / quote me for rules questions answers.

Can I grapple open when I maneuver thru a rock but don't land on it? (The while you execute and "overlap" thing confuse me)

Can I grapple open by BR onto a rock?

12 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Please @ / quote me for rules questions answers.

Can I grapple open when I maneuver thru a rock but don't land on it? (The while you execute and "overlap" thing confuse me)

Can I grapple open by BR onto a rock?

Struts stay closed if you didn't land on an asteroid or debris cloud during your maneuver. What you described in your first example is outlined in the Rules Reference as "move through". Overlapping is landing on top of an object.

Moving though, and overlapping, are not the same thing. And overlapping is described as.

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it overlaps an object if the ship’s final position would physically be on top of an object.

So you can move though, but not overlap an asteroid or debris, and you wont be overlapping it, so the struts do not trigger.

53 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Can I grapple open by BR onto a rock?

No. The requirement for the struts is specifically executing a maneuver, and barrel rolling is not a maneuver (tho it is a movement).

That said. Once you are on an obstacle, with the struts open, you can barrel roll becuase of the open wording.

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You ignore obstacles at range 0 and while you move through them

Moving includes any change in position, either from a maneuver or changing position (barrel rolling or boosting).

49 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

That said. Once you are on an obstacle, with the struts open, you can barrel roll becuase of the open wording.

There is a disagreement on this in certain regions of the world. General North American consensus is that, as long as you are ignoring an obstacle, you may freely barrel roll over it. However, many European events rule that, even while ignoring an obstacle , the template may not overlap the obstacle itself, as it violates the rules for barrel roll actions.

It's a disagreement in an interpretation of the rules, and honestly, I see both interpretations as valid... as long as they're consistent.

1 hour ago, emeraldbeacon said:

There is a disagreement on this in certain regions of the world. General North American consensus is that, as long as you are ignoring an obstacle, you may freely barrel roll over it. However, many European events rule that, even while ignoring an obstacle , the template may not overlap the obstacle itself, as it violates the rules for barrel roll actions.

It's a disagreement in an interpretation of the rules, and honestly, I see both interpretations as valid... as long as they're consistent.

I can see this dispute.

... hmm. wonder how to resolve that.

On 2/1/2020 at 12:55 AM, emeraldbeacon said:

There is a disagreement on this in certain regions of the world. General North American consensus is that, as long as you are ignoring an obstacle, you may freely barrel roll over it. However, many European events rule that, even while ignoring an obstacle , the template may not overlap the obstacle itself, as it violates the rules for barrel roll actions.

It's a disagreement in an interpretation of the rules, and honestly, I see both interpretations as valid... as long as they're consistent.

Sorry but i dont see both sides.

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RR pg 29: A ship that is “ignoring obstacles” does not apply the effects of overlapping or moving through them.

RR pg 14 : A ship moves through an object if the template is placed on that object when the ship moves.

Neither the struts, nor Dash Rendar, nor the Mining Guild Tie's, are restricting their ignore ability to just maneuvers. If that is all FFG wanted them to ignore, they would state "maneuvers" not simply "move" or "move though". And it seems like ignoring the obvious to state that the ship base can move, as long as the template doesnt move though, while the ability states its allowed to 'move through'. I dont see how the europeans are ignoring all that or what they think "move though" means.

Remember, Barrel rolling so the ship base is on an obstacle, but the template is not, is not "moving though" that obstacle. Its simply overlapping it. Thats why 'move though' and 'overlapping' are always listed explicitly separate from each other.

8 hours ago, Lyianx said:

Sorry but i dont see both sides.

Neither the struts, nor Dash Rendar, nor the Mining Guild Tie's, are restricting their ignore ability to just maneuvers. If that is all FFG wanted them to ignore, they would state "maneuvers" not simply "move" or "move though". And it seems like ignoring the obvious to state that the ship base can move, as long as the template doesnt move though, while the ability states its allowed to 'move through'. I dont see how the europeans are ignoring all that or what they think "move though" means.

Remember, Barrel rolling so the ship base is on an obstacle, but the template is not, is not "moving though" that obstacle. Its simply overlapping it. Thats why 'move though' and 'overlapping' are always listed explicitly separate from each other.

The argument is that "ignore obstacles" means "ignore the effects of obstacles, but not effects that check for the presence/absence of obstacles." Boosts/barrel rolls fail if the template overlaps an obstacle. The 'European' ruling is that failing a boost/barrel roll in this manner is not an effect of an obstacle, but rather an effect that checks for the presence/absence of obstacles. Therefore, boosts and barrel rolls that move through an obstacle will fail even if you are ignoring the obstacle in question.

(NB: I am with my American brethren in believing this is an incorrect ruling. Go ahead and barrel roll across the stars to your heart's content.)