You can’t rotate nor recover.

Rotate is the one I think should be errataed. Along with damage card actions. But definitely rotate.

Damage card and recover are likely ok at later stages of the game.

1 hour ago, Biff said:

So, like, wingmates can’t repair damage. I hadn’t noticed that...

Per Epic rules – “During the Activation Phase and at all other times, a wingmate is limited to the following actions: calculate, evade, focus, reinforce, and lock.”

Abilities with the “ ACTION: ” header (as found on some condition, damage, ship or upgrade cards) are excluded from this list.

Wow – completely stunning. Each time I play this game I learn something.

I was already bummed that they can't rotate arc, but this is pretty deep stuff - my Separatist Drone wingmates can’t recover their Energy-Shell Charges missile upgrade.

Salvo, split to reload, and then regroup into formation. The restrictions only apply while in formation.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Salvo, split to reload, and then regroup into formation. The restrictions only apply while in formation.

I thought you can only voluntarily split during the planning phase and rejoin, with a stress token and if at range 0-1 of the wing leader, during the end phase. This exposes the wing leader during engagement and is a bit of a faff.

23 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

I thought you can only voluntarily split during the planning phase and rejoin, with a stress token and if at range 0-1 of the wing leader, during the end phase. This exposes the wing leader during engagement and is a bit of a faff.

I meant over a few turns, sorry for the confusion.

My humble take: at 400-500pt epic battles, the game is pretty much over around the 9-10th round or so. (Its definitely decided by then, I suggest a lot of people stop playing around then, although it actually continues on probably to 15-16th rounds to complete death match end).

Anyway, by the 9-10th round or so (a normal 200pt game is also 9-10 rounds fyi), unless you're completely butchering the other player, your wings are relatively depleted/broken up. At which point, the functional difference of needing to do reloads, damage card actions and other actions while in-wing is starting to decrease.

It takes something like, what 2-3 turns to voluntarily split and do your actions and then fly back close enough to rejoin, then shed stress and everything else, the game is probably functionally over by then and also likely back to either 200pt levels of equal combat or like 400vs150 unequal butchering. either way, kind of doesn't matter anymore.

edit: take it back, I can't read. Yes, Seppies would like ESC reloads much earlier than 9th round. Take it back, that's a good reason to allow reload as a wing action.

---

anyway, still would be nice to be able to do rotate and reload at least in wing. Ywing wings plz. ESC Seppies.

Damage cards next.

After that, reinforce.

Heck. In my house rules, you're allowed to do those. I wanna see those interesting wings. Also, doesn't really seem broken.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Yes, Seppies would like ESC reloads much earlier than 9th round. Take it back, that's a good reason to allow reload as a wing action.

That's a touch awkward, though, because for Energy Shells that's not adding to the allowable actions, that's adding ACTION headed triggers on upgrades as a wing action.

Which feels like a very open-ended door if the intent was to have a clean and simple restriction.

(or you could just have a Hyeena wing, since other missiles are available* and they have a bin of multiple charges without reloading)

Not allowing you to fix damage cards whilst in formation is an interesting point to note.

Although breaking off because "I've got a bad malfunction" is entirely characterful, I guess.

* Sorry. Heresy, I know.

I'm fine with most actions being limited while in a wing, but being unable to repair should probably be changed in the rules to be allowed. However, it does seem somewhat thematic for a ship to need to break formation to repair their ship before rejoining the battle group.

9 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Rotate is the one I think should be errataed. Along with damage card actions. But definitely rotate.

This violates the KISS principle of wings.

A. Rotating the indicator will be a PIA with all those models in close proximity.

B. Players are now going to be spending time figuring out which rotated ships are doing what. Exactly the opposite intent of wings.

C. Thematically, each ship being rotated differently means they are not following the wing leader.

Or, rotate becomes an action only the leader can perform, and all wingmen lose a second action to follow suit, but again, now you have lost the simplicity of wings.

Wings are powerful. Some incentives to fly solo aren't bad.

5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

This violates the KISS principle of wings.

A. Rotating the indicator will be a PIA with all those models in close proximity.

B. Players are now going to be spending time figuring out which rotated ships are doing what. Exactly the opposite intent of wings.

C. Thematically, each ship being rotated differently means they are not following the wing leader.

Or, rotate becomes an action only the leader can perform, and all wingmen lose a second action to follow suit, but again, now you have lost the simplicity of wings.

Wings are powerful. Some incentives to fly solo aren't bad.

Huh what the duck.

5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Or, rotate becomes an action only the leader can perform, and all wingmen lose a second action to follow suit, but again, now you have lost the simplicity of wings.

How about allowing rotate actions for wingamates, but adding also "When wingamates perform the rotate action, they must rotate their arc to the same facing as the wing leader."

I guess it still allows half the squad to point in different directions, if some rotate and some don't, but seems like a middle ground that gives a squad of Y-Wings or whatever a means to turn their guns to the side.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I guess it still allows half the squad to point in different directions, if some rotate and some don't,

Then on the next round, a different set of "some do, others don't" and before long the wing is shooting every which way.

I'm not entirely against the idea of wings getting to rotate, but I do think every gun should be required to point in the same direction.

Something like: "if wing leader rotates turret, all wing members must rotate their turret facing same direction and can't perform any more actions:?

11 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Then on the next round, a different set of "some do, others don't" and before long the wing is shooting every which way.

I'm not entirely against the idea of wings getting to rotate, but I do think every gun should be required to point in the same direction.

Forcing them to point the same direction feels just as complex to me as letting them not, so I'm not sure I see the point. I gonna be strange here and say maybe it should stay not allowed, but not because of complexity. A full wing that can readily switch from 'everything in front of us will be ioned' to 'pick any angle, we've still got guns on you' might be what they're trying to prevent here. VS right now, you pick one or the other, and you're stuck that way until you break up the wing.

But I don't think damage cards should be allowed, it feels right to have to break off to fix things, and one of the downsides to having an action crit is you can't boost/roll away from combat and repair at the same time. Reload is in the same boat, wing leader rolling out of arc while everyone else reloads might be too strong.

Could be completely wrong though.

2 minutes ago, imprezagoatee said:

it feels right to have to break off to fix things,

"Get clear Wedge!! You can't do any more good back there!!!"

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Then on the next round, a different set of "some do, others don't" and before long the wing is shooting every which way.

I'm not entirely against the idea of wings getting to rotate, but I do think every gun should be required to point in the same direction.

I mean, you can just start the game with guns pointing every direction.

I wonder... maybe individual wing ships shouldn't have been granted actions at all. Leader Movement action: just place the wing in the final position. Leader Focus/Lock/Evade? Everyone gets the right tokens, or locks the same target. Leader Rotate? Everyone's arc points the same direction.

51 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

"Get clear Wedge!! You can't do any more good back there!!!"

Did Wedge really have a problem with his ship, or did he just not want to die for some rookie hayseed yammering on about Womp Rats?

https://www.starwarsreport.com/2015/01/27/sorry-the-wedge-antilles-problem/

53 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Did Wedge really have a problem with his ship, or did he just not want to die for some rookie hayseed yammering on about Womp Rats?

https://www.starwarsreport.com/2015/01/27/sorry-the-wedge-antilles-problem/

He was still recovering from being too sick to show up at Scarif.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, you can just start the game with guns pointing every direction.

I wonder... maybe individual wing ships shouldn't have been granted actions at all. Leader Movement action: just place the wing in the final position. Leader Focus/Lock/Evade? Everyone gets the right tokens, or locks the same target. Leader Rotate? Everyone's arc points the same direction.

Did Wedge really have a problem with his ship, or did he just not want to die for some rookie hayseed yammering on about Womp Rats?

https://www.starwarsreport.com/2015/01/27/sorry-the-wedge-antilles-problem/

Allowing leader actions and more actions would simplify things. You would still need to break to repair.