2 minutes ago, PikminToo said:

They could potentially work well in pairs. Its a huge point sink to be sure but, especially with an AAT providing covering fire, when the lines close they'll be devastating. Its also possible that range 2 will be much more valuable with some of the new deployment cards that are coming out in vital assets. Have them moving up the field behind a tank for that heavy cover or something. I think they have play, it'll just take time to find a home (plus a generic droid commander probably).

So 96+96+170+175=537 for 4 units(B2 x2, AAT,Grevious) 3 of which are range 2, how can you afford the rest of your army

Just now, Darth evil said:

So 96+96+170+175=537 for 4 units(B2 x2, AAT,Grevious) 3 of which are range 2, how can you afford the rest of your army

You run 4 B1, 3 with the 3b heavy weapon, aggressive tactics on Grievous and his gun and a few other upgrades here and there. Right now this probably isn't the way to go, no argument here. I think the list will be much more viable once CIS gets a cheaper commander and some other army slots like the rumored commando droids and such. I'm just saying I think they'll have a home, at the very least in skirmish, its just a question if its right now or later.

2 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

So 96+96+170+175=537 for 4 units(B2 x2, AAT,Grevious) 3 of which are range 2, how can you afford the rest of your army

B1 B1 B1 B1 B1

Do you have another question ? 😂

13 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

You guys are more optimistic than i am, because frankly a full squad with the most expensive heavy costs 96 points for 10 wounds with white saves and no surges. Most people thing wookies suck bad and these things seem much worst.

B2s have a few things going for them that wookies don't.

1. They're a corp unit with no competition. B1s only redeeming qualities is their cost and chaining orders. Wookies suffer from taking up a valuable SF slot. I've done good work with Wookies, but their cost and rank make them an unfavorable choice when compared to sniper spam.

2. They're the best corp unit for holding forward objectives. Heavy cover and armor 1 cancel 3 hits and you can bring it up to 4 with a dodge. White dice with no surge suck, but that much damage mitigation combined with a 10 HP unit makes for a unit that is hard to whittle down. Wookies prefer an aggressive playstyle and function similar to Tauntauns. They make for poor defensive units.

3. Surge tokens benefit the B2s more. The damage output of a 5 B2 team with the ACM trooper is higher than any other single corp unit (except snows with flamethrower and frags) with a surge token.

1 hour ago, thepopemobile100 said:

With how powerful everything but the B1s are it seems to me that the expensive commanders exist to keep your army in check.

I would be fine with this, but we know that we are getting the generic officer at some point since everything is somewhat repeating. So unless they do something crazy with the CIS one, which they may since CIS is the oddball of the factions so far. The question is more when then if.

57 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

You guys are more optimistic than i am, because frankly a full squad with the most expensive heavy costs 96 points for 10 wounds with white saves and no surges. Most people thing wookies suck bad and these things seem much worst.

I was say we are more desperate then optimistic. Sort of sucks to think that one of two new options coming out is dead on arrival, but my money is on that 6 full B1s will be the core of CIS forever. At least they are a lot of fun to play!

Just now, RyantheFett said:

I would be fine with this, but we know that we are getting the generic officer at some point since everything is somewhat repeating. So unless they do something crazy with the CIS one, which they may since CIS is the oddball of the factions so far. The question is more when then if.

I was say we are more desperate then optimistic. Sort of sucks to think that one of two new options coming out is dead on arrival, but my money is on that 6 full B1s will be the core of CIS forever. At least they are a lot of fun to play!

I agree, since this is similar to how Snipers are still very much present in competitive lists, even after the changes to range and points. If/when the CIS gets sniper strike teams, it will be hard to beat their number of cheap activations. The order chaining B1s provide also make them very order efficient.

26 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I agree, since this is similar to how Snipers are still very much present in competitive lists, even after the changes to range and points. If/when the CIS gets sniper strike teams, it will be hard to beat their number of cheap activations. The order chaining B1s provide also make them very order efficient.

CIS commandos potentially incoming from spoiler

1 hour ago, Katsutoshi said:

B1 B1 B1 B1 B1

Do you have another question ? 😂

Yes, what allows you to violate the max cap of six corps units?

Is it just me, or does the B2-HA heavy make a meh unit into something not bad. I wish they could put Cycle on all the old units that tap. They might see play then. 😁

1 hour ago, GooeyChewie said:

With Esteemed Leader can I send a hit to this guy and cancel it with Armor?

Guardian does not work that way. Guardian cancels the hit, so it’s no longer attack damage, then you roll defense dice and take damage for each blank (or surge if you don’t convert). So by that point it’s no longer a hit, it’s damage from the guardian mechanic. Hope that makes sense.

1 hour ago, thepopemobile100 said:

2. They're the best corp unit for holding forward objectives. Heavy cover and armor 1 cancel 3 hits and you can bring it up to 4 with a dodge. White dice with no surge suck, but that much damage mitigation combined with a 10 HP unit makes for a unit that is hard to whittle down. Wookies prefer an aggressive playstyle and function similar to Tauntauns. They make for poor defensive units.

Disagree here (with the best corp for holding objectives). The only benefit they have over other units is Armor 1. Every other corps unit can get heavy cover + dodge to cancel three hits. The difference is that When a storm trooper takes a hit, they have a 33% better chance of making the save. That's without accounting for the fact that 2x base Stormtrooper units cost less than a max B-2 squad. Sure you lose some firepower and two wounds, but get an extra activation and a bit better range.

I think you have to think about what the B2s bring to the CIS army and to the table as a whole, and not just in a matter of statistics.

The B2s are a unit you cannot ignore, and that you have a very strong incentive to shut down as soon as possible. So, when you have a Grievous or a Sith Lord rushing at you, a AAT Tank firing at your troops and B2s marching toward you... Which one will you try to shut down fast, really fast ?

Exactly.

Tabletop Admiral updated

Just now, werdnaegni said:

Tabletop Admiral updated

You're doing the lord's work.

24 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

The only benefit they have over other units is Armor 1. Every other corps unit can get heavy cover + dodge to cancel three hits

Yet the only corp unit that can keep the dodge over multiple attacks are rebel troopers. When was the last time you've seen a rebel trooper take a dodge action? Most (all) corp units will use the second action if available to aim then shoot.

27 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

The difference is that When a storm trooper takes a hit, they have a 33% better chance of making the save

And for every fail they make they lose a valuable trooper. The red defense dice also are more prone to attracting pierce attacks, namely snipers. B2s behind heavy cover force snipers to rely on crits to deal damage and, again, don't need to rely on the underused dodge action to cancel 3 hits.

31 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

That's without accounting for the fact that 2x base Stormtrooper units cost less than a max B-2 squad. Sure you lose some firepower and two wounds, but get an extra activation and a bit better range.

The only good a naked squad of any corp is good for is for holding objectives that are on your side of the board and padding. 4 white attack dice even with an aim and surge are worthless beyond putting a suppression on the board.

Speaking of Suppression, B2s are droid troopers with Courage 2. They do not get suppressed, and only panic at 4. AI:Attack is also less of a problem, since their default is R2, unless you equip the B2-HA (which also cycles down) you'll have a smaller area where it triggers, so these units can leave the shelter of their commanders and act more independently. I'm seeing them as a "give a little, get a little" kind of unit - they are definitely an investment, but if you can use them smartly they'll pay you back. Also despite the expense the B2-HA is pretty darned good, having both blast and Impact 2, and will be useful for mirror matches and the possibility of the oncoming tank menace. The only reason why these guys aren't immediately replacing all your B-1s is because their lowered range and expense.

43 minutes ago, Katsutoshi said:

I think you have to think about what the B2s bring to the CIS army and to the table as a whole, and not just in a matter of statistics.

The B2s are a unit you cannot ignore, and that you have a very strong incentive to shut down as soon as possible. So, when you have a Grievous or a Sith Lord rushing at you, a AAT Tank firing at your troops and B2s marching toward you... Which one will you try to shut down fast, really fast ?

I like this in theory

17 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Yet the only corp unit that can keep the dodge over multiple attacks are rebel troopers. When was the last time you've seen a rebel trooper take a dodge action? Most (all) corp units will use the second action if available to aim then shoot.

I really don't know what to do with Rebel troopers. Dodge is probably what you should do as they do zilch for damage with their terrible dice.

8 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Yet the only corp unit that can keep the dodge over multiple attacks are rebel troopers. When was the last time you've seen a rebel trooper take a dodge action? Most (all) corp units will use the second action if available to aim then shoot.

And for every fail they make they lose a valuable trooper. The red defense dice also are more prone to attracting pierce attacks, namely snipers. B2s behind heavy cover force snipers to rely on crits to deal damage and, again, don't need to rely on the underused dodge action to cancel 3 hits.

The only good a naked squad of any corp is good for is for holding objectives that are on your side of the board and padding. 4 white attack dice even with an aim and surge are worthless beyond putting a suppression on the board.

And this unit likely will be shooting (if it even can due to range restrictions) with no aim. With a range of 1-2 it likely won't find many opportunities where it is within range to aim/shoot or it may not have an order token to bypass AI:Attack. There's a reason fleet troopers don't see much use. This unit is in that same boat.

what's everyone's guess as to a release date?

46 minutes ago, Katsutoshi said:

I think you have to think about what the B2s bring to the CIS army and to the table as a whole, and not just in a matter of statistics.

The B2s are a unit you cannot ignore, and that you have a very strong incentive to shut down as soon as possible. So, when you have a Grievous or a Sith Lord rushing at you, a AAT Tank firing at your troops and B2s marching toward you... Which one will you try to shut down fast, really fast ?

Exactly.

You just easily range them. At range 1-2 they aren't going to be offensively effective until they get into opposing lines, and that's going to take a few turns, especially when they have to jump from cover to cover to survive. This unit in the open is going to be toast.

4 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

what's everyone's guess as to a release date?

They will tell us a date in mid-February, but actually be available mid-late March.

4 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

what's everyone's guess as to a release date?

End of February

Thinking that AI really hurts their usability. Can't argue against blast and impact 2, cept those 32pts and need to ready on a unit that has to shoot first. That is a lot of pts for something that might get a couple shots off.

8 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

what's everyone's guess as to a release date?

FFG:
B2 Super Battle Droids Unit Expansion
Star Wars: Legion - Separatist Alliance Expansions
US release date: February | Latest update: 11/15/2019

I suspect March, but I'm hopeful the upcoming page is accurate for once.

16 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

And this unit likely will be shooting (if it even can due to range restrictions) with no aim. With a range of 1-2 it likely won't find many opportunities where it is within range to aim/shoot or it may not have an order token to bypass AI:Attack. There's a reason fleet troopers don't see much use. This unit is in that same boat.

Neat. They still average 5 (B2-HA) to 5.5 (ACM) damage a shot without one. A single surge, which isn't hard to get, brings it to 6 and 6.5 damage respectively. They don't need an aim to hit hard.

You also don't seem to grasp why fleet troopers don't see much use competitively anymore. They're heavily terrain dependent which, at least in the early days, was made worse with how sparse tournament tables tended to be. Courage 1 is the other major issue: it's easy to strip an action on them when they really need both to do their jobs. The officer upgrade helps a lot, but with how many range 4 suppression weapons Imperial lists are able to stack, it made approaching them nigh impossible.

B2s suffer from the first problem just as much as fleet troopers, but not the second one. And armor 1 helps a lot with snipers. Snipers against CIS lists have substancially less value than other factions.

20 minutes ago, Mep said:

Thinking that AI really hurts their usability. Can't argue against blast and impact 2, cept those 32pts and need to ready on a unit that has to shoot first. That is a lot of pts for something that might get a couple shots off.

Is this really an issue though?

I'm asking sincerely. I've only played the droids twice but both times out of the box I didn't have much trouble getting around the AI with foot soldiers. They get command tokens and surge tokens pretty easily due to Coordinate and chaining tokens with Aggressive tactics, etc.

I saw these guys and thought they would be amazing in skirmish, but we play with a lot of terrain, so fleet troopers were really good all of a sudden as well.