51 minutes ago, Derrault said:

@buckero0
"Sometimes the Red defense dice are just so good."

For example, +1/6 times per die roll over the White surge defense dice.

It's +16.667%, and a whole lot of overactive imaginations.

It's +16.667 percentage points , which is an important distinction, because they block 50% more hits on average.

2 hours ago, Lochlan said:

It's +16.667 percentage points , which is an important distinction, because they block 50% more hits on average.

Yeah, from 2 hits to 3. It’s really not that impressive when you make it real numbers.

2 hours ago, Derrault said:

Yeah, from 2 hits to 3. It’s really not that impressive when you make it real numbers.

Yeah, because math, who cares ...

Let's put it in numbers: In order to wipe out a standard 5 mini unit with white/surge you need an average 7,5 hits. To wipe out the same unit with red/noSurge you neetd10 hits. A lot of empire units can reasonably dish out 7-8 hits (with a fire supporting Mortar on range 4), Rebel units need to almost max out their hits to come to 10 hits and Imperials can still use a surge token to boost the defenses.

If you set up shores for a first strike (which you get with krennics 1-pip) with just 1 aim (you get for free at the start) and a supporting mortar you have a 44% chance of insta-killing a rebel squad. If you push it to the limits (surge token, targeting scopes and offnsieve push) you can increase the probability to 72% in the open and still 42% in heavy cover, definitely crippling the unit. In order to achieve something similar with rebels, you need to get Fleet Troopers at range 2, set up a blaster trooper at range 3, play Solos 1-pip and invest in not only one but 2 HQ uplinks on troopers.

sure no biggie 😉

i have a question: shores are so good because of the chain of orders, but is it worth to take just one unit with a mortar (with comms relay of course)? Or 2 is a minimum?

1 hour ago, rafparis said:

i have a question: shores are so good because of the chain of orders, but is it worth to take just one unit with a mortar (with comms relay of course)? Or 2 is a minimum?

Sure, even one pair brings already great value.

15 hours ago, Derrault said:

@buckero0
"Sometimes the Red defense dice are just so good."

For example, +1/6 times per die roll over the White surge defense dice.

It's +16.667%, and a whole lot of overactive imaginations.

But everything's in context. If they are really good instead of average when you line up a good shot or catch them in the open, then it can change a game. If everything was statistics, then why roll the dice? A couple of good rolls at the beginning will outweigh any poor dice rolls toward the end of the game because the attrition if your own troops, causes you to lose shots

Besides, you make it sound like all dice are created equal and that they all roll evenly. There's been lots of articles showing that FFG dice are pretty poorly made and generally do not roll equally on all sides.

Nothing is lacklustre as long as you love how it looks.

Yeah, because math, who cares ...

Let's put it in numbers: In order to wipe out a standard 5 mini unit with white/surge you need an average 7,5 hits. To wipe out the same unit with red/noSurge you neetd10 hits. A lot of empire units can reasonably dish out 7-8 hits (with a fire supporting Mortar on range 4), Rebel units need to almost max out their hits to come to 10 hits and Imperials can still use a surge token to boost the defenses.

If you set up shores for a first strike (which you get with krennics 1-pip) with just 1 aim (you get for free at the start) and a supporting mortar you have a 44% chance of insta-killing a rebel squad. If you push it to the limits (surge token, targeting scopes and offnsieve push) you can increase the probability to 72% in the open and still 42% in heavy cover, definitely crippling the unit. In order to achieve something similar with rebels, you need to get Fleet Troopers at range 2, set up a blaster trooper at range 3, play Solos 1-pip and invest in not only one but 2 HQ uplinks on troopers.

sure no biggie

Uhm, math does matter. Which is exactly why I pointed out that just throwing out the percentage is deceptive when we're talking about a very tiny real number difference.

Rebel Troopers have white surge defense dice, and in a fully staffed unit, 6 wounds that (assuming a Z-6) deal 4 expected damage.
Those 6 wounds require an average of 9 hits to eliminate (+2 per attack for heavy cover, +1 per dodge)

Stormtroopers have red defense dice, and in a fully staffed DLT unit have 6 wounds and deal 3.625
Those 6 wounds require an average of 12 hits to eliminate (+2 per attack for heavy cover).

At that rate the incoming fire of a rebel trooper wipes the stormtroopers in 3 attacks (6 in heavy cover)
The Stormtroopers wipe the same Rebels in 2.48 attacks (5.53 in heavy cover; 3.4 against just dodge; 14.4 attacks with dodge and heavy cover).

I do agree, the fire support possibilities are great, which is why deployment/positioning when considering the next round of combat are extremely important considerations! That being said, players are, mostly, pysching themselves out when valuing +1 on the die result so so much. To put it another way; With 6 hits against 6 minis: With white surge, 2 survive, with red dice, 3 survive; on average.

If everything was statistics, then why roll the dice?

Because these are just averages. I've had all blanks on red/black attack dice, and I've seen 5/6 crits on white z-6 dice. It's absurdly improbable, but sometimes it happens.

Can you link the articles regarding the FFG dice? I tried googling but nothing on that topic came up on the first few pages.