Hello there,

I have 4 questions that came up during a match yesterday, and I think it is best to just put them all into 1 Topic.

1.: Turrets and Arcs: These are actually 2 questions. First: If the Turret Arc Indicator is pointing to the front, does this also act like a forward Firing Arc for Upgrades like "Outmaneuver" ? Or does a ship with just a turret not have a front firing arc, therefore can't use "Outmaneuver"? And Second: Can Ships with a Turret (and no shaded arc) only fire front facing special Attacks (like Torpedos) if the Turret Arc Indicator is also pointing to the front , or regardless of the Indicator's current position?

2.: Predator: When an enemy ship (e.g. a huge ship) is in range 3 of my Bullseye Arc but in Range 2 of my Standard (forward) Firing Arc , can I use " Predator " for the range 2 attack` ? Or do I have to attack at the Bullseye Arc's range? Since the Text says "... if the Defender is in your [Bullseye Arc]...", and not "When Attacking with your [Bullseye Arc]..." I would think I can attack using my default Arc, but I'd rather make sure.

3.: Blinded Pilot: How exactly does this Crit work? Specifically, what does the "...for their default effect"-part mean? Can I only use Force Tokens to change the Dice according to the default rules of Force tokens (spend 1 or more Force Tokens to change that many 'Eye'-Results to Hits) and Upgrades like "Fifth Brother" ( spend 1 Force Token to change 1 'Eye'-Result to a critical Hit ), Or can I spend a Force Token to then use my Evade Tokens , for example? So in other words: Do I have to "buy" the ability to change my Dice with Force, or can I only change them using Upgrades etc.?

4.: Precision Shot Effects: This is another one that I kinda think I know how it works by looking at the rules, but I want to make shure I get it; Does the Attacking Ship have to be completely in the specified Arc for the Precision Shot 's effect on Huge Ships's Damage Cards to resolve? Or does it simply need to be partially inside that Arc ? Since the rules don't specify, that the entire Base has to be inside the Arc (like they do for Reinforce Tokens), I would guess that a small portion would be enough, but as I said: better safe than sorry.

Thanks in Advance for any answers for any of these questions!

1: A [turret arc] weapon is not a [V] weapon, so it cannot trigger Outmanouevre. Individual [V] arc special weapons can always be fired out of the ship's front quadrant (assuming other requirements like charges, tokens etc are met) regardless of where the turret is pointing.

2: yes, all that matters in that instance is the position of the ship relative to you. it doesn't matter if the ship isn't in bullseye at the range of the weapon you're using, only that it's in bullseye a all..

3: It means you can't use a specific pilot or upgrade ability that spends force for an effect other than the standard 'change an eye to a hit' option. You cannot spend any other tokens or make any other modifications than spending a force to turn eyes to hits. Do what the card says, don't do what it doesn't say.

Someone more au fait with the EPic rules will have to take number 4.

Thanks for your answers, thespaceinvader.

Make me wonder why "Outmaneuver" does not have the "V"-arc listed as a requirement on the left side of the card...

Also, I think I was just confused what "their" referred to on "Blinded Pilot": the force Tokens or the Dice

18 minutes ago, CptAmmogeddon said:

Thanks for your answers, thespaceinvader.

Make me wonder why "Outmaneuver" does not have the "V"-arc listed as a requirement on the left side of the card...

Because it has it in the text. Any card that has the arc symbol in the text is basically stating a requirement, just as if they were using a focus symbol to explain something.

6 minutes ago, InterceptorMad said:

Because it has it in the text. Any card that has the arc symbol in the text is basically stating a requirement, just as if they were using a focus symbol to explain something.

Oh, you're right! Makes sense.

Also I kinda thought that the Squad Builder only let's you use Upgrade that work, but I guess it just looks at requirements and limitations on cards

4. You are correct. A ship only has to have a portion of that ship in the relevant arc, not be wholly within that arc. Otherwise it would be impossible to ever trigger the precision shot effect.

12 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

4. You are correct. A ship only has to have a portion of that ship in the relevant arc, not be wholly within that arc. Otherwise it would be impossible to ever trigger the precision shot effect.

Oh, right. Duh... Thanks!

2 hours ago, CptAmmogeddon said:

1.: Turrets and Arcs: These are actually 2 questions. First: If the Turret Arc Indicator is pointing to the front, does this also act like a forward Firing Arc for Upgrades like "Outmaneuver" ? Or does a ship with just a turret not have a front firing arc, therefore can't use "Outmaneuver"? And Second: Can Ships with a Turret (and no shaded arc) only fire front facing special Attacks (like Torpedos) if the Turret Arc Indicator is also pointing to the front , or regardless of the Indicator's current position?

Outmaneuver is one of the most commonly misunderstood cards in the game, so you're in good company in having questions about it! The main problem with the card is that the specific symbol it uses (the "front arc" one) has multiple meanings in the game. In this case, because it calls for "a [front arc] attack," it's actually calling out the type of weapon you're using. Usually, this is a front-arc primary weapon, though it also works for most missiles, torpedoes, and cannons as well. If the weapon doesn't have the [front arc] symbol (such as a Heavy Laser Cannon, or the YV-666 full front arc primary weapon), then Outmaneuver doesn't work, regardless of where the attacker and defender are relative to one another.

2 hours ago, CptAmmogeddon said:

2.: Predator: When an enemy ship (e.g. a huge ship) is in range 3 of my Bullseye Arc but in Range 2 of my Standard (forward) Firing Arc , can I use " Predator " for the range 2 attack` ? Or do I have to attack at the Bullseye Arc's range? Since the Text says "... if the Defender is in your [Bullseye Arc]...", and not "When Attacking with your [Bullseye Arc]..." I would think I can attack using my default Arc, but I'd rather make sure.

As @thespaceinvader explained above, Predator only cares that the defender is "in" your bullseye. It doesn't care about the weapon type or range of the attack; merely, that the defender happens to be "in" that bullseye arc. That term, "in," actually has a definition in the rules: a ship is "in" an arc if any part of its base is in that arc. A reminder: like other arcs, Bullseye arcs only go to Range 3, so it's possible to have a shot on an enemy ship at range 3, where you have them lined up in your bullseye BEYOND range 3; since the enemy ship isn't in that arc's range, it's not in bullseye, and therefore Predator wouldn't work.

2 hours ago, CptAmmogeddon said:

3.: Blinded Pilot: How exactly does this Crit work? Specifically, what does the "...for their default effect"-part mean? Can I only use Force Tokens to change the Dice according to the default rules of Force tokens (spend 1 or more Force Tokens to change that many 'Eye'-Results to Hits) and Upgrades like "Fifth Brother" ( spend 1 Force Token to change 1 'Eye'-Result to a critical Hit ), Or can I spend a Force Token to then use my Evade Tokens , for example? So in other words: Do I have to "buy" the ability to change my Dice with Force, or can I only change them using Upgrades etc.?

The Blinded Pilot critical damage card is pretty straightforward, once you understand the terms on the card. First off, it only has an effect while you're attacking, so there's no restrictions on how you use your tokens on defense. While you are attacking, Blinded Pilot makes changes on how you can modify your dice, which is a key term in the game. A dice modification is defined as one of four things: adding dice results, changing dice results, rerolling dice results, and spending dice results. With this critical damage card, the only way you can modify your attack dice is by spending force for its normal, rules-defined purpose (each force charge can change a single focus result into either an attack or evade). You cannot use the special effects of cards like Fifth Brother, or modify your dice in other ways (like Ten Numb spending stress to modify focus results).

2 hours ago, CptAmmogeddon said:

4.: Precision Shot Effects: This is another one that I kinda think I know how it works by looking at the rules, but I want to make shure I get it; Does the Attacking Ship have to be completely in the specified Arc for the Precision Shot 's effect on Huge Ships's Damage Cards to resolve? Or does it simply need to be partially inside that Arc ? Since the rules don't specify, that the entire Base has to be inside the Arc (like they do for Reinforce Tokens), I would guess that a small portion would be enough, but as I said: better safe than sorry.

As described above, when discussing Predator, Precision Shot effects care about the position of the attacker relative to the defender. Specifically, the attacker just needs to be "in" that arc, not fully "within" (which is an entirely different game term... look it up ).

1 hour ago, emeraldbeacon said:

The main problem with the card is that the specific symbol it uses (the "front arc" one) has multiple meanings in the game

NO . The symbol itself just means "front arc" . Everything else pertaining to the ability the symbol is being used, including what the "front arc" is being used for, in is outlined in the rest of the ability's text. When someone sees the front arc symbol all they need to do is substitute "front arc" in place of it and then read the ability normally.

4 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

1: A [turret arc] weapon is not a [V] weapon, so it cannot trigger Outmanouevre. Individual [V] arc special weapons can always be fired out of the ship's front quadrant (assuming other requirements like charges, tokens etc are met) regardless of where the turret is pointing.

41 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

NO . The symbol itself just means "front arc" . Everything else pertaining to the ability the symbol is being used, including what the "front arc" is being used for, in is outlined in the rest of the ability's text. When someone sees the front arc symbol all they need to do is substitute "front arc" in place of it and then read the ability normally.

These two posts are the essence of the confusion surrounding Outmaneuver. It's been hashed out and hashed out in these forums. Turret primaries cannot use Outmaneuver's ability because a turret primary is not a attack, though it can fire from the front arc. However, a special weapon that uses the symbol can.

4 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

NO . The symbol itself just means "front arc" . Everything else pertaining to the ability the symbol is being used, including what the "front arc" is being used for, in is outlined in the rest of the ability's text. When someone sees the front arc symbol all they need to do is substitute "front arc" in place of it and then read the ability normally.

Fair. I should have phrased it more like, "the [front arc] symbol is often misinterpreted, as it is referenced in different ways on different cards... sometimes to describe an attack requirement, sometimes merely a position." There are places in the game where, via context, the symbol means more than simply "front arc"... at the bottom of a ship card, for example, or on cards like Proton Torpedo, it pretty explicitly means "front arc weapon," despite being the same symbol that means "front arc" in text boxes. The context clues (in a text box versus not in a text box) tell you which is which... but until one learns how to read those context clues, it can easily become confusing exactly what it means.

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 5:44 PM, emeraldbeacon said:

Outmaneuver is one of the most commonly misunderstood cards in the game, so you're in good company in having questions about it! The main problem with the card is that the specific symbol it uses (the "front arc" one) has multiple meanings in the game. In this case, because it calls for "a [front arc] attack," it's actually calling out the type of weapon you're using. Usually, this is a front-arc primary weapon, though it also works for most missiles, torpedoes, and cannons as well. If the weapon doesn't have the [front arc] symbol (such as a Heavy Laser Cannon, or the YV-666 full front arc primary weapon), then Outmaneuver doesn't work, regardless of where the attacker and defender are relative to one another.

This.

Obviously any target in your must logically also be in your , since the one is a subset of the other, but in this case it's not " the arc ", its " a weapon with a arc ".

The best example I can think of on a single ship is probably The Moldy Crow; a HWK-260 has a arc, which can pointed to fire into the arc but remains a weapon not a weapon and hence can't use Outmanoeuvre. The Moldy Crow title specifically adds a weapon, which can.

(It's worth noting that one reason it doesn't include as a prerequisite box is that it works with special weapons, where a lot of talents - like predator - specify a primary attack. Ordnance is normally , so a lot of large ships have the potential to have a weapon with a even if they don't have a primary weapon with that arc)