I’m not sure about Old Teroch or Fenn Ray, but with the reduction of the generics, the I4s need reduction as well. Kad Solus probably isn’t 7 points more effective, and no way is Joy Rekoff worth even a point more.
In fact, Joy should probably cost a point less. That would be fine, since you can only take one of her, and she’d be 5 points more expensive if she had a pilot ability anyway. The discount would essentially be her pilot ability in this case.
28 minutes ago, Matanui3 said:I’m not sure about Old Teroch or Fenn Ray, but with the reduction of the generics, the I4s need reduction as well. Kad Solus probably isn’t 7 points more effective, and no way is Joy Rekoff worth even a point more.
In fact, Joy should probably cost a point less. That would be fine, since you can only take one of her, and she’d be 5 points more expensive if she had a pilot ability anyway. The discount would essentially be her pilot ability in this case.
Agreed on Joy, but I have to dissent on Kad, at least in Hyperspace play. Having played against him in action a few times now, that double focus off red manuevers is huge. Second edition is so much more a time on target game now. It's why Resistance A-Wings, Tie SFs anything with a secondary firing arc is so good in the game now. Kad is quite tanky when flown right, and at initiative 4 he can hunt him some generics.
Think of it this way; One time use Contraband Cybernetics is 2 points. If Fangs had an illicit, I'd reckon it would be highly considered. Kad can probably get in 3 red manuevers a game.
Maybe bring him down 1 point, if at all, but I think people are sleeping on Kad. He's kind of the Snap Wexley of scum... Great utility, and when flown well a game changer.
I would expect the next round of point changes will include a discount on a lot of Initiative 4 uniques. Init 4 is just kind of a graveyard unless you have some really great pilot ability.
5 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:I would expect the next round of point changes will include a discount on a lot of Initiative 4 uniques. Init 4 is just kind of a graveyard unless you have some really great pilot ability.
Agreed. Rebels own init 4 pretty much in terms of the best pilots. Dutch, Jake, the B-Wings, Garvin, Blount etc. But the vast majority of Initiative 4s otherwise just don't compare with the values of other faction pilots at 3 & 5. The tilt to Ace or efficiency builds rests on that init 4 pivot more than any other in the game currently.
Fenn Rau and Old Teroch are fine.
Everybody else needs help.
I do love me some Kad Solus. I'm sad he can't take Elusive in hyperspace, but he's a fun pilot. Of course, I'd love for a pilot that I like to get a buff, but I don't know that it's vital.
Joy... I haven't gotten around to flying her, but I think she's probably better than we've given her credit for. If a Skull could take both Fearless and Outmaneuver, that'd be pretty good, right? That's kinda what Joy Reckoff is. Totally not worth +5 points over a Skull, though. +2 maybe.
I guess I need to actually try Joy. It's easy to write things off when you can take something pretty much the same, for less, with a known utility. So I've no idea.
Kad, I kind of agree with everything, both sides of the discussion. He is really good and worth his cost. It's more about the platform comparisons. Paying 2pt for I5 alone is a steal on this ship. That Terry comes with an equally great.... ( easier to use)....(with such great synergies).... a better ability, rubs extra salt into the wound.
Comparing to Skulls. I honestly think they over-egged the reduction a bit, purely to enable the Fearless Four. 47 to 48pt is not a big difference but reducing the gap to Kad works both ways. Same goes for Recruits, who were actually fine at 44. Other things dropped though, so the generics needed some parity.
He seriously should be further from Terry than the Skull. Kad is very good but Old T is a monster .
So Kad has a built in Pattern Analyser that restricts him to focus but adds a second token. 5pt gets you access to repositions, which is huge. Double focus often leaves one unspent in those spots. So 4pt for his ability, tops. 51pt. Built in Elusive. Done.
Kad with Outmanouevre compared to Fearless Teroch, 2pt less. Both will kick @$$ but the latter is still better . What a nice pair.
Edited by Cuz05To be honest, what I'd really like to see for the Fangs is a configuration based on their spinning articulated s-foils, since they inexplicably don't get a modification slot unlike Imperial and FO interceptors. The spinning wings supposedly made evasion by enemy ships problematic. A config card of "spinning/stationary" s-foils could be cool.
Or from the wiki
"They possessed an array of close range sensors." Give them a sensor slot. Price Advanced Sensors by initiative as a gatekeeper vs. Fenn stuffs. Collusion Detector and Fire Control really suit the ship's premise.
1 minute ago, Cloaker said:To be honest, what I'd really like to see for the Fangs is a configuration based on their spinning articulated s-foils, since they inexplicably don't get a modification slot unlike Imperial and FO interceptors. The spinning wings supposedly made evasion by enemy ships problematic. A config card of "spinning/stationary" s-foils could be cool.
Or from the wiki
"They possessed an array of close range sensors." Give them a sensor slot. Price Advanced Sensors by initiative as a gatekeeper vs. Fenn stuffs. Collusion Detector and Fire Control really suit the ship's premise.
Oh this would all be so good. Too good me thinks.
I like them lean and mean and would prefer not to pay for the opportunity to equip things I'm not going to equip.
Also enjoy not being severely tempted to put more things on them than necessary.
2 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:Oh this would all be so good. Too good me thinks.
I like them lean and mean and would prefer not to pay for the opportunity to equip things I'm not going to equip.
Also enjoy not being severely tempted to put more things on them than necessary.
It's just my jelly of Soontir being able to equip two modifications, or the TIE/rb /Silencer being able to mod and tech. Ignore my pining ways. I love my Fangs lean too, and still think 5 Zealots is not broken.
7 minutes ago, Cloaker said:It's just my jelly of Soontir being able to equip two modifications, or the TIE/rb /Silencer being able to mod and tech. Ignore my pining ways. I love my Fangs lean too, and still think 5 Zealots is not broken.
Silencer has no mod-slot
Just now, beardxofxdeath said:Silencer has no mod-slot
grouped together with RB as just general example of the fact they have additional upgrade slots beyond the Fang
2 hours ago, Cloaker said:If Fangs had an illicit...
This. Needs. To. Happen.
20 minutes ago, Cloaker said:It's just my jelly of Soontir being able to equip two modifications, or the TIE/rb /Silencer being able to mod and tech. Ignore my pining ways. I love my Fangs lean too, and still think 5 Zealots is not broken.
I think the additional hull upgrade and the range one defense ability in the chassis gives it the nod in equality, it shouldn't get to be a TIE Interceptor too. I like the ship as it is, plus illicit obviously. I really don't want all ships to meld towards the same. I love uniqueness. That said, the specific pilots --save Fenn and Old of course-- and the I4 could have a bit of cost assistance. Maybe Kad down 2 with I4s and Joy down 5 so she can be selected with a torpedo, due to Fangs really not at all being flown with them?
I like the idea of configs. They make the games more interactive and interesting. (Admittedly with the downside of adding some serious complexity and the potential for confusion and missed opportunities. It feels bad when you forget to flip and it feels bad when your opponent can do things you weren't expecting because configs are hard to keep track of.)
I would be interested in a config that is free with no effect on one side and some severe trade-offs on the other side.
Goofy first thought:
Swivel Mounted Wings (Locked)
Before you reveal your dial, you may flip this card.
Swivel Mounted Wings (Gyro)
Your dice cannot be modified. Decrease the difficulty of your red maneuvers. Before you reveal your dial, you may flip this card.
Edit: The idea is you can pull red maneuvers and still reposition or target lock for future round but leave yourself crazy vulnerable for that round. You could even be a TIE Defender that never gets to mod dice. Probably stupid but it gives an idea of what I'm talking about.
Edited by gamblertubaFangs with an illicit would mean Cyber-Kad, an monstrous killing machine with 2 focus tokens and either a lock or reposition on a k-turn or tallon, for just 56 points.
*cue Terminator music*
5 hours ago, gamblertuba said:Swivel Mounted Wings (Locked)
Before you reveal your dial, you may flip this card.
Swivel Mounted Wings (Gyro)
Your dice cannot be modified. Decrease the difficulty of your red maneuvers. Before you reveal your dial, you may flip this card.
If you're giving them the god-power of the TIE Defender and 1E Jumpmaster (if not surpassing it), then disarm them. Unmodded attacks is too limp a penalty. Gyro side should just say "You cannot attack" as its first sentence.
And even then that's an amazingly powerful effect. Too powerful, given the before-reveal timing (so they know where they'll be compared to other ships when they are making the choice). If you could only flip the card at the end of the round, then that helps. Maybe it even forces itself flipped at the end of every round (or in response to stress or other effects) and they can't manually flip it, meaning they have to play around its timing.
Kad Solus is a cool dude who could maybe be a little cheaper compared to Old T.
Joy Rekoff, sad and forgotten, was never flown before the points change and then didn't go down when the PS4 generics did. Alas. Since their ability requires a minimum 6 points of torpedo to use, I feel like they could drop quite a bit without causing problems, but I haven't actually tried them in second edition (like most players I suspect).