Sigh people.

—

talking about people I find that most players in even store tourneys don’t understand simple basics of the game. Simple stuff like the focus rule.

12 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I also think, however, that the design is a result of someone at Disney looking through their IP back catalogue finding the TIE Avenger from the X-wing PC games. So whilst I will give it it's due and defend it as well designed, I will question a claim that it is creatively designed. The fact that it is officially the 'TIE/vn', when that sounds suspiciously like a short-code you might give something called 'avenger' and nothing like a short-code you might give something called 'silencer' reinforces that suspicion.

Yep, the Silencer is basically the Avenger. Its either a deliberate homage, or it's a straight mash up of the TIE Interceptor and Vader's TIE. Either way, it's probably the coolest sequel trilogy ship and part of the only decent sequence in tlj, but it's neither original or creative.

...and then of course - hilariously - we got this:

3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Yep, the Silencer is basically the Avenger. Its either a deliberate homage, or it's a straight mash up of the TIE Interceptor and Vader's TIE. Either way, it's probably the coolest sequel trilogy ship and part of the only decent sequence in tlj, but it's neither original or creative.

...and then of course - hilariously - we got this:

That I'll give you.

23 hours ago, KCDodger said:

These all have clear relatives...

14 hours ago, KCDodger said:

I can't take calling the TIE Silencer lazy seriously, Force. I won't even acknowledge this.

IT'S AN STRETCH LIMOUSINE TIE/INTERCEPTOR PAINTED BLACK! 😂 😅 😝 ❤️ LMAO

51 minutes ago, XPav said:

Yep! But you know, totally an ugly.

22 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

IT'S AN STRETCH LIMOUSINE TIE/INTERCEPTOR PAINTED BLACK! 😂 😅 😝 ❤️ LMAO

You could stand to scroll up, or something, lol. Force, that thing has a ton of lineage.

"I seeee an interceptooor

And I want it painted black!

Maybe theeeen, the First Order,

Will seem like an actual Threeeat!"

To the tune of Paint it Black, cover by JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson, probably.

Lol that's an interceptor. To see it as anything more you have to be discounting the complete blatant obvious lol. I remember back when it was just a preview image and we called it 'the new interceptor'. This is not news LMAO

Which still doesn't discount my point, the villain group is still running around with 20+year old design ideas. They still even call them TIE series names.

Like when the prequels were made at least we got an entirely new design base with the Separatists. I wish we could have gotten something that was the same magnitude different in another direction.

Also, @KCDodger I found it. Told you I remembered it from old EU stuff. Even this spaceship loving enthusiast YouTuber gets Z-95 from the Fireball to boot!

4 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Also, @KCDodger I found it. Told you I remembered it from old EU stuff. Even this spaceship loving enthusiast YouTuber gets Z-95 from the Fireball to boot!

but

They're so wrong

They couldn't be any more wrong

On 1/28/2020 at 6:49 AM, Odanan said:

Good theory, but I prefer my head canon:

there is no Sequel Trilogy.

Well, we got 3 super gun bases and 1 super gun fleet. That leaves space for 2 more super gun fleet plots before we move into super gun fighters then handhelds. Now that the The Rat holds the reigns, there will be no end!!!

2 hours ago, KCDodger said:

but

They're so wrong

They couldn't be any more wrong

Search your feelings. You know it to be true 😎 😂

3 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Search your feelings. You know it to be true 😎 😂

not even blail agrees

20 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

My opinionated ignorant whine is that I think that JJ was completely the wrong choice and utterly not prepared for the magnitude of the role of Star Wars sequels (7 and 9) director. I understand that 8 wasn't his movie nor his design. I also understand that he was signed on for 9 kind of in the middle of things (and I absolutely hate the rushedness of the choice of directors and to begin even making these films).

(btw guys, see these? These are called counterarguments and qualifications and counterarguments to my own assertions and opinions. These are important. They're what 99% of people are missing and why their arguments are one dimensional)

Like really. Star Wars as a company, you thought it was the right time to find someone to fill George Lucas' idiotic shoes? And then you decided NOT to have an overarching direction/director for all 3 sequel films, and you picked NOW is the time, and you picked JJ for TWO films????????? HALLO.

(Hey at least we got some cool things outta the films? I'm glad those who died recently got to see it too. )

Getting back to this, I don't think JJ or Rian were good picks. In fact, I kinda wish I'd the franchise went anywhere, it would have been to of all places Netflix. That's another discussion all together.

Back on topic. Let's hope lol

I think the fact that for all the ships we see in the Exegol battle. It seems to me an interesting question as to what we DON'T see. Any come to mind immediately for any of you?

7 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Also, @KCDodger I found it. Told you I remembered it from old EU stuff. Even this spaceship loving enthusiast YouTuber gets Z-95 from the Fireball to boot!

Tora's Blue Ace is said to be 'custom' in the official stuff, but I agree. It's very close to an R-41 starchaser to the point (bulbous nose, two raised engines, wing tip guns) I'm sure that was the basis of the design. It is a reimagined one, though, because I don't think we've ever seen that much resolution on an R-41 before, so the level of detail seen is, obviously, new, and the original version (as of the FFG Stay on Target sourcebook) lacked an astromech slot.

Freya's Red Ace really doesn't scream any specific design to me, and it looks too 'clean' to be an ugly. The prow looks slightly Y-wing esque - it's not the right shape to have been drawn from a Y-wing, but the broad outlines of the nose and trailing twin outrigger engines mean I could believe it's another Koensayr design. I don't think we've ever seen their idea of a light fighter, but I can imagine it looking like this.

Griff's Black Ace is definitely an ugly. Depending on how you look at it there could be bits of all sorts of TIE variants in there, and the Empire - deliberately - never built TIEs with astromech capability.

Kaz's Fireball - I'm not really getting a Z feel to it. Yes, bits of it are reminiscent (like the wingtip guns), but the nose, for example, stops very abruptly and the cockpit is a different shape. The gullwings are more or less unique to the ship, and whilst the non-clone Z has pods on the wings, these are missiles for the headhunter wilst they're engines on the Fireball. The lack of conformal-to-hull engines feels like a huge change, and the 'humpback' at the back end of the Z-95's hull is conspicuously absent. I'm happy to accept the Fireball is an Ugly and may have used some Z-95 parts, but I can't readily pick any specific features out.

Hype's Green Ace is supposed to be a modified G30. To my knowledge we've not seen an unmodified one, but there you go.

Bo Keevil's Yellow Ace is a custom ship as far as I know. There are a few configuration-shifting ships in the setting (S-foils, Fang, U-wing, TIE/sk, Droids, but I don't recall anything that shifts its shape as much as this one....)

2 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Getting back to this, I don't think JJ or Rian were good picks. In fact, I kinda wish I'd the franchise went anywhere, it would have been to of all places Netflix. That's another discussion all together.

Back on topic. Let's hope lol

I think the fact that for all the ships we see in the Exegol battle. It seems to me an interesting question as to what we DON'T see. Any come to mind immediately for any of you?

Sadly, that scene is kind of blurry as all-get-out. we don't really get a long sweep high def shot of all the beautiful designs, cuz supposedly many of them are kind of low res renders.

imagine if we had that long sweep hi def tho.

ugh sorry I'm not done chugging my whine sauce.

@Magnus Grendel the closest analogue I see to the Fireball would be a Preybird, but it's a stretch.

@Magnus Grendel Yellow I'll entirely agree I don't recognize from anything else. Which is good! Stupidly you get so little screen time of it or if season one I didn't remember having every really seen it. Lol. Looking at them all side by side, the Red had the same wings as a Starchaser as well. I'm in agreement that it could be related.

Hype's Green Ace: actually while I've been looking at it for the past day or so in still shots, I actually get E-wing of all things. Hear this one out. The straight slope down from the cockpit to the fuselage, the snub nose, and engine position. They seem to hyper extend (lol, hype) the wing lift mechanism and have moved it from the hull joint to the nacelle. Much of the back and the wing has been extended. Cousins at least.

59 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

the closest analogue I see to the Fireball would be a Preybird, but it's a stretch.

Not convinced. It does have flexing wings, but the preybird's curve up, not down, and it has the - fairly common - engines-bolted-onto-the-hull rather than pods on wings and the back of the hull.

29 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

actually while I've been looking at it for the past day or so in still shots, I actually get E-wing of all things. Hear this one out. The straight slope down from the cockpit to the fuselage, the snub nose, and engine position.

Whilst the 'fettles' at the tip of the nose are odd, I'll grant you it does look like an Incom-style layout of nose, cockpit and fuselage.

Guys is it really so hard to believe The Fireball isn't something you already know?

1 hour ago, KCDodger said:

Guys is it really so hard to believe The Fireball isn't something you already know?

But it is.

3 hours ago, Odanan said:

But it is.

A Corsair reversed.

Haha, okay. This I will give you.

At best KC, I'll give it that it's a one off scrap build (ugly). But then I'm still seeing a ton of parts coming of a Zed, being conked together by Jerek and his brother who would have had a lot of familiarity with GCW tech. This is reinforced to me by not just it's aesthetics, but by two items in it's own show. First, it's just called 'the Fireball', lending to the idea that it's a one-off, non-production model. They never call it anything else. And secondly we get that episode where Kaz and his buddy are getting that salvaged Zed from the water, and they're pretty stoked about the parts it had because of their compatibility requirements.

Logic follows that a Zed, would need Zed parts. This one especially leads me to think the core chassis was a Zed series. We even get that bit of banter about a dash 96 model, informing us that the series continued for at least a little after the wars.

Swap out the missile pod for engine pod, take out the forward sensor cone for ducting intake, strip back the empanage panels for speed. Do a wing mod to gain some maneuvering ability... Boom... Racer.

For what it's worth, I work as an aircraft mechanic. I work on Embraer 170 and 175 series planes. One of the differences in those planes is the wingtips. There are two versions. One is what we call an extended winglet, and the other is just a wingtip. But, with approval from engineering we can upgrade the wingtip on our 170 to a winglet. It's a process but the difference in the two is about 15 degrees of angle and a foot of distance. They aren't that hard to to change really, I've changed some individual ones out when they were damaged. So from the mind of an aviation person, really no big deal to see angles where there weren't before.

4 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

At best KC, I'll give it that it's a one off scrap build (ugly). But then I'm still seeing a ton of parts coming of a Zed, being conked together by Jerek and his brother who would have had a lot of familiarity with GCW tech. This is reinforced to me by not just it's aesthetics, but by two items in it's own show. First, it's just called 'the Fireball', lending to the idea that it's a one-off, non-production model. They never call it anything else. And secondly we get that episode where Kaz and his buddy are getting that salvaged Zed from the water, and they're pretty stoked about the parts it had because of their compatibility requirements.

Logic follows that a Zed, would need Zed parts. This one especially leads me to think the core chassis was a Zed series. We even get that bit of banter about a dash 96 model, informing us that the series continued for at least a little after the wars.

Swap out the missile pod for engine pod, take out the forward sensor cone for ducting intake, strip back the empanage panels for speed. Do a wing mod to gain some maneuvering ability... Boom... Racer.

For what it's worth, I work as an aircraft mechanic. I work on Embraer 170 and 175 series planes. One of the differences in those planes is the wingtips. There are two versions. One is what we call an extended winglet, and the other is just a wingtip. But, with approval from engineering we can upgrade the wingtip on our 170 to a winglet. It's a process but the difference in the two is about 15 degrees of angle and a foot of distance. They aren't that hard to to change really, I've changed some individual ones out when they were damaged. So from the mind of an aviation person, really no big deal to see angles where there weren't before.

You mean, aside from entirely different canopies, fuselages, thruster setups, frames, even different wings...

Look, I don't work on planes? But I'm not some googly eyed Star Wars fan who hasn't ever stepped a toe into design. I have relaxed on it but I used to study the **** out of existing designs to improve my own fictional fightercraft. ****, I got so on the "must work in atmosphere" sauce that I ended up losing a lot of the originality my designs had- because I was so focused on using proven knowledge. TBH, really bad move. But the point is, I know a decent bit. You probably know more.

But it's just not a Z-95, or 96. Zs are not known for their speed, you know. Or Astromech compatibility.

On 1/30/2020 at 3:44 AM, Blail Blerg said:

Anyway. 7 is bad. 9 is bad. A lot is really bad.

A good place to start on audience perception and film-understanding is the argument on why "Luke is not a triumphant, self-realized hero in the original trilogy"

7 ans 9 are bad, but 8 is the worst of the 3.

7 remodelled the house and ignored the fire code.

8 lit the house on fire just to watch it burn.

9 moved in new tenants while the fire roared and couldnt understand the consequences.

I'm pretty sure that I just explained how those aren't different wings. That's just a mod. Cutting the wing open and installing a reconfigured version happens all the time. The planes I work on have four mods down the length each side. One of which did change the geometry a bit. Boeing 737s have had like 6 different wing styles I think? Changing the wing doesn't really mean much in the end. Blackhawks had a couple interesting mods that if you didn't know better you might think you were looking at a completely different bird.

The canopy looks salvaged off an X. Again, ugly. Not to mention is the same style on at least two of the other racers, green and Yellow. Must be easy to come by.

An Astromech slot versus a built in computer seems a reasonably modular swap. IRL, not uncommon to upgrade entire avionics suites from pneumatic dial gauges to digital glass. I'd say SW verse had some similar philosophies. (Expensive AF though) another component you may have scraped off the X. Again, Ugly.

And the forward fuselage is common to the Z and X both. Just replaced the nose cone. Probably had to, if the old one was wrecked anyway. You might say there's as much a chance that an X was the core chassis. Would not be a big stretch. I just tend to agree with a lot of the other enthusiast out there that it seems to be more a Zed in overall comparison. Mostly because of its small size.

As for speed I'd point to the Falcon and it's Ilk. Sure they had a good start on speed to begin with. but the Falcon of particular note was hugely enhanced in that department. So were ships like the Outrider . If speed was a concern, cutting many of the internal system down and stripping armor and structural bracing could go a long way to up the speed. Not to mention they took off the original four heavy engines and stepped up to the twin wing pods. What that gained them is undefined. And I'm willing to roll with it. They did jury rig this thing so much it's unstable as all get out.

In the end, I still see a Z. Sorry that bothers you so much I guess?

Before I went to school for A+P, I was working toward a aeronautical engineering bachelor's. Long term plan was to go self designed doctorate at EmRid with 'Space frame Construction Theory and Design'. Oh what dreams may come and all that. When I would play RPGs , I'd bring a lot of that love that started as doodles in notebooks full circle back with that new knowledge to make cool designs into more believable ones. And believable ones indeed more ridiculous ones. They are not mutually exclusive. I too love designing mythical space ships. Star wars is such a great sandbox to do it in too since you can throw aerodynamic out the window.(sidelong glance at StarViper) So I get it. We're all plane watchers in the SW verse together! 😎 ❤️ I've never implied otherwise.