3 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Both parts of the EU that I'm STILL glad we don't have.

Yeah the ST has made a lot of serious mistakes, but at least nothing quite that bad. Plenty of things could have been so much worse (and were in Legends).

Disney canon is still better than Legends, and Filoni et al. will eventually end up making the sequel trilogy era as beloved as the clone wars era, in spite of the films.

TV Star Wars is Best Star Wars. Always will be. Just waiting for all the lore justifications for some of what we saw, how the prophecy of the Chosen One is explained, etc. I'm sure these things will end up getting justice, though they may have been left more or less in the dust during TRoS. I have faith in Filoni.

9 hours ago, Odanan said:

Well, the rest of Star Wars, canon or not, didn't either.

Now seriously. The Vong and the Sun Crusher really needed the Obliviate spell.

Honestly, the Sequel Trilogy has made develop a new appreciation for the Vong and the New Jedi Order as a whole.

The series was not without its flaws, to be sure, but it was bold and different and brave enough to actually explore and question the universe it was set in. It was not Empire Knockoff #73, led by Random Darksider #104, fielding Impractical Superweapons #203 through #1204, and topped off with (Yet Another) Palpatine Rehash. And it didn't take almost sadistic pleasure in annihilating the legacy of the OG cast so it could shill its new characters.

To put it succinctly, if you asked me which of the New Jedi Order or Sequel Trilogy were the better follow-ups to the Original Trilogy... I'd actually pick the New Jedi Order.

21 hours ago, Odanan said:

Yet, we can barely see anything.

All I see is 257 missing opportunities to put in a movie some Legends (or nearly-Legends*) designs, like E-Wing*, K-Wing, T-Wing, HWK-290*, Z-95*, Assault Gunboat*, TIE Punisher, TIE Avenger, TIE Hunter, TIE Phantom... Even the T-85 could be there.

The E-wing should have been the resistance main Starfighter. Or even something altogether new

It was lazy to do just another X.

Let's be real. The sequels were a missed opportunity on A LOT of things. LMAO 🤣

1 hour ago, ForceSensitive said:

The E-wing should have been the resistance main Starfighter. Or even something altogether new

It was lazy to do just another X.

Let's be real. The sequels were a missed opportunity on A LOT of things. LMAO 🤣

To be fair the X-wing was a iconic fighter for the Rebels and I can see why it would be continued with new marked additions.

That still doesn't mean they could not have introduced some new ships on top. The Y-wing was a 60 year old design at this point which the B-wing was designed to replace.

I don't think the E-wing is something I would personally want to see, I've never been the fond of the cannon design of the ship, although there have been some vastly improve fan versions that I'm quite fond of.

Would have liked to have seen some new design's, but that's what happens when films are made by committee.

3 minutes ago, Tyhar7 said:

To be fair the X-wing was a iconic fighter for the Rebels and I can see why it would be continued with new marked additions.

That still doesn't mean they could not have introduced some new ships on top. The Y-wing was a 60 year old design at this point which the B-wing was designed to replace.

I don't think the E-wing is something I would personally want to see, I've never been the fond of the cannon design of the ship, although there have been some vastly improve fan versions that I'm quite fond of.

Would have liked to have seen some new design's, but that's what happens when films are made by committee.

Right!?

Like, I'm just saying that when you look at the Canon as a whole, you got two eras. Republic, Rebellion, and Rebellion Continued. Which is problematic when your trying to use each trilogy to convey it's own era.

Having the old Y and the Rebel Stripped down one gives continuity. Helps though that it's a secondary designs and not THE design of it's day. But the X and the TIE were different/evolved from the early era. Like, you can see the continuity as you go, but the hallmarks of each era are really their own unique things.

Then you get the new era and it's 'stuck'. Like, the only real good example of an evolving or 'living' design is the resistance transport being a mod of the old B. It makes sense. You just 'get it'. You kinda see where it came from, you know it's in this new place now.

I have to say I'm really disappointed in general with the sequels. But as just a space ship aficionado it really disappointed me. I was hoping for this continued river of flowing designs, and I feel like we just got two blocks instead.

5 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

I have to say I'm really disappointed in general with the sequels. But as just a space ship aficionado it really disappointed me. I was hoping for this continued river of flowing designs, and I feel like we just got two blocks instead.

I'll be intrigued to see what they do with the whole 'Project Luminous' malarkey.

given it's supposed to be hundreds of years in the past, whilst there are visual 'rules' that make something look 'Star Wars', if we get something that looks suspiciously like X-wings and TIE fighters again, I shall be very disappointed....

33 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

...if we get something that looks suspiciously like X-wings and TIE fighters again, I shall be very disappointed....

Oh, you can bet on that.

Unfortunately.

9 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Right!?

Like, I'm just saying that when you look at the Canon as a whole, you got two eras. Republic, Rebellion, and Rebellion Continued. Which is problematic when your trying to use each trilogy to convey it's own era.

Having the old Y and the Rebel Stripped down one gives continuity. Helps though that it's a secondary designs and not THE design of it's day. But the X and the TIE were different/evolved from the early era. Like, you can see the continuity as you go, but the hallmarks of each era are really their own unique things.

Then you get the new era and it's 'stuck'. Like, the only real good example of an evolving or 'living' design is the resistance transport being a mod of the old B. It makes sense. You just 'get it'. You kinda see where it came from, you know it's in this new place now.

I have to say I'm really disappointed in general with the sequels. But as just a space ship aficionado it really disappointed me. I was hoping for this continued river of flowing designs, and I feel like we just got two blocks instead.

I mean, auxiliary material's doing a lot. Just look at pretty much all of Resistance's designs.

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'll be intrigued to see what they do with the whole 'Project Luminous' malarkey.

given it's supposed to be hundreds of years in the past, whilst there are visual 'rules' that make something look 'Star Wars', if we get something that looks suspiciously like X-wings and TIE fighters again, I shall be very disappointed....

....and yes, Galactic Starfighter, that was a snide cheap shot at you.

Oh buddy, the cheap shot is wholly deserved at not just Starfighter Assault but the WHOLE damned game. COWARDLY design decisions.

@KCDodger the resistance Ace squad, let's be real it's overdoing the repurposed ship idea lol. They're classic uglies. I think Hypes was there only 'original'? Couldn't tell. Like, they even say the Fireball is basically a Zed, and had interchangeable parts in an episode. The only 'new' design was the Barons tie, and again it's just the 'new FO' version of the Inquisitor TIE from the rebellion era. So yeah, rebellion continued. At least in season one. I haven't watched more then that yet. Out of curiosity, what IS unique there anyway?

3 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

@KCDodger the resistance Ace squad, let's be real it's overdoing the repurposed ship idea lol. They're classic uglies. I think Hypes was there only 'original'? Couldn't tell. Like, they even say the Fireball is basically a Zed, and had interchangeable parts in an episode. The only 'new' design was the Barons tie, and again it's just the 'new FO' version of the Inquisitor TIE from the rebellion era. So yeah, rebellion continued. At least in season one. I haven't watched more then that yet. Out of curiosity, what IS unique there anyway?

Fireball's got basically nothing in common with a Z-95 tbh. Every ship is honestly its own design, though how many are mass produced is beyond me. But none of them are directly older ships. The Baron's TIE is related to the v1, but also the Interceptor. There's actually a lot of lineage in it.

THere's a chunk of cool ships throughout Resistance Seasons 1 and 2, you're definitely missing a lot of new ones. The best is probably the TIE FO Bomber, but that one Bounty Hunter's ship is also pretty fabulously coolio. Resistance shuttles are neat, the Guavian Death Gang ships are cool, and for sure the droid vessels this season rocked hard.

Honestly, calling the Fireball and its relatives Uglies or Zs is a disservice and is like saying the TIE FO Bomber is an ugly. Here, check these out.





These all have clear relatives, but they're no more uglies than the U-Wing or TIE Striker, much beloved as they are, are. And of course.

15 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

The E-wing should have been the resistance main Starfighter. Or even something altogether new

It was lazy to do just another X.

Let's be real. The sequels were a missed opportunity on A LOT of things. LMAO 🤣

I'm going to disagree here: the T-70 is perfect as the standard next-generation good guy starfighter.

It takes the classic X-wing and uses the original concept art and some modern jet fighter aesthetics to create a ship that's different enough to be its own machine, while maintaining a strong visual link to the classic. Armed with that, they could have then started branching out to create more original designs, confident that the T-70 would be enough to keep your average movie-goer thinking "Yeah, this is still Star Wars."

That's when the real laziness started, as they just kept on updating old designs instead of trying something new (TIE/fo, B-wing, Y-wing, A-wing). Which is a real shame, because when they do stretch themselves a little with things like the Silencer and the FO Bomber above, they tend to nail it.

32 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

I'm going to disagree here: the T-70 is perfect as the standard next-generation good guy starfighter.

It takes the classic X-wing and uses the original concept art and some modern jet fighter aesthetics to create a ship that's different enough to be its own machine, while maintaining a strong visual link to the classic. Armed with that, they could have then started branching out to create more original designs, confident that the T-70 would be enough to keep your average movie-goer thinking "Yeah, this is still Star Wars."

That's when the real laziness started, as they just kept on updating old designs instead of trying something new (TIE/fo, B-wing, Y-wing, A-wing). Which is a real shame, because when they do stretch themselves a little with things like the Silencer and the FO Bomber above, they tend to nail it.

That's also totally not mentioning that the E-Wing was universally despised by anybody who wasn't the folks who made Dark Empire. Nobody has ever truly loved the E-Wing, and on the screen it misses that dynamic motion of the X-Wing's aggressive shape and S-Foils. And as we all used to see... Whenever the stupid cannon is brought up...

The E-Wing being the main fighter would ONLY serve as fanservice to like a hundred people who like the **** thing.

like the Battle of Exogol is even cannon, lol.

If you try to think about that movie at all the whole thing (and honestly the whole trilogy) falls apart. Like where are the Mon'calamari, Correlians, or the 10,000 (literally) other planets that were part of the New Republic? nearly every planet in both the Republic AND Separatist alliance joined the New Republic... did they each send a single ship to fight, and only months or years after the emergence of the the First Order? haha, sure. okay

4 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

like the Battle of Exogol is even cannon, lol.

If you try to think about that movie at all the whole thing (and honestly the whole trilogy) falls apart. Like where are the Mon'calamari, Correlians, or the 10,000 (literally) other planets that were part of the New Republic? nearly every planet in both the Republic AND Separatist alliance joined the New Republic... did they each send a single ship to fight, and only months or years after the emergence of the the First Order? haha, sure. okay

...You're amazing at bad takes, Vontoothskie. Yes, the battle is canon. Where are the Mon Cals? idk, how about all the Mon Cal ships? Corellians? idk, what about all the Corellian ships? All the others? Geez idk what about the rest of the ships?

You've seen this picture right?



Really can't make out any of what you asked for?

Here's the thing, right? No singular faction sent anything or anyone to fight. Crews, ships, people, answered the call. There was no organization but the sheer fact alone that these people understood the threat at hand.

So they answered the call.

Throughout The Galaxy, hundreds of other planets began to resist The First Order's hold.

So... what are you getting at?

7 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

...You're amazing at bad takes, Vontoothskie. Yes, the battle is canon. Where are the Mon Cals? idk, how about all the Mon Cal ships? Corellians? idk, what about all the Corellian ships? All the others? Geez idk what about the rest of the ships?

You've seen this picture right?



Really can't make out any of what you asked for?

Here's the thing, right? No singular faction sent anything or anyone to fight. Crews, ships, people, answered the call. There was no organization but the sheer fact alone that these people understood the threat at hand.

So they answered the call.

Throughout The Galaxy, hundreds of other planets began to resist The First Order's hold.

So... what are you getting at?

nah. a budget doesnt make bad fanfic good.

and you must be willfully ignoring my point. A couple each of some token ships doesnt explain why the entire galaxy disapeared for years while the first order rampaged around. or how the first order is even a thing. or how starday morning cartoon logic took over the writers room on this stuff. The hundreds of plot holes in the new films have been well documented in dozens of places for years. feel free to check it out

18 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

nah. a budget doesnt make bad fanfic good.

and you must be willfully ignoring my point. A couple each of some token ships doesnt explain why the entire galaxy disapeared for years while the first order rampaged around. or how the first order is even a thing. or how starday morning cartoon logic took over the writers room on this stuff. The hundreds of plot holes in the new films have been well documented in dozens of places for years. feel free to check it out

How... long do you think The First Order's been obviously active..? It's been less than a year.

**** dude.

wdf. there's like obviously some MC-75s and MC-80s in there. WDF.

Like really? That whole arguments got more holes than the USS Samuel B. Roberts.

4 hours ago, DR4CO said:

I'm going to disagree here: the T-70 is perfect as the standard next-generation good guy starfighter.

It takes the classic X-wing and uses the original concept art and some modern jet fighter aesthetics to create a ship that's different enough to be its own machine, while maintaining a strong visual link to the classic. Armed with that, they could have then started branching out to create more original designs, confident that the T-70 would be enough to keep your average movie-goer thinking "Yeah, this is still Star Wars."

That's when the real laziness started, as they just kept on updating old designs instead of trying something new (TIE/fo, B-wing, Y-wing, A-wing). Which is a real shame, because when they do stretch themselves a little with things like the Silencer and the FO Bomber above, they tend to nail it.

I'm confused by your logic. I can't tell if we're missing each other's point or not?

I'm saying that the 70 was lazy because it shouldn't be there except in the background. There should be the "branch out" in the foreground that you mention. That way in the background you get that, 'oh yeah, look back there, it's an X' you mention, but the focus is on the new era. It's been over twenty years for crying out loud. Like, if your going to defend a series that had "let the past die" as a tag line, you should probably let the old ship design take the back seat song with all those characters they tried so desperately to move past. You should have had something new instead.

Like I mentioned, the transport the resistance uses does this. Clearly they moved past the B when we saw it in ep7, and relegated the old ones to refits. I agree it's still super lazy they rezed the B in 9 for fan service and basically back tracked that and said 'oh no, we still use all the old stuff, it's just super shiny now'. That's a missed opportunity to introduce something new.

I would extremely strongly disagree that they 'nailed' the design of the FO ships you mention. The silencer and bomber are special examples of lazy to me. They just took a squint and a bomber, dropped them in photo shop, flattened and stretched the first, then swapped the wings on the other, and hit invert-color. Done. That's lazy. We got new-old TIEs of every type. Boring.

The upsilon I suppose was pretty good. Took the old aesthetic of folding upright wings big shuttle, and took it 5 different directions at once. They got rid of the dorsal entirely, made the side wings straight, moved the joint and incorporated the landing gear into the transition, incorporated an extendable section, reconfigured the weapons array entirely, and swapped out the old cockpit standard size to that size vessel and replaced it with something more akin to the command bridge you'd expect on a vessel more in the Corvette class. You get that it's a shuttle. You know where it comes from in design philosophy. But it's a total evolution of thought. The old one just moved dudes and material. This new one provided a suitable mobile battlefield command center. That's pretty neat. Even if they still hit color invert 😐😜

They showed us that evolved SD in 7... Kinda. 7 only gave us that one super long shot of some new Republic stuff. Then we got a few more in 8 but shoved it aside to the back for the Dreadnought. Which outside of 'it's a triangle' had almost no cues to show the carry over. It was super blocky, not Arrowhead shaped, oddly planned out. Like, I want to love it, but it literally falls flat. Then the Supremacy's appearance made you wonder even more where you got the dread idea from. The Sup looked like it's sister designs aesthetic at least. (Dumb thought, that movie would have been way better with a second supreme instead of the Dread. Would have given more ideas to how much material the FO was throwing around, as well as some consistency. PO.)

But then we get back to 9 and SURPRISE! ISD 1s! ... Again... Yay? Lazy AF.

@KCDodger ... You really don't look at those ships and immediately read 'scrap built ugly'? Those first two are staight up Zs. I know I've seen her ship somewhere else in legends before. Recannonized at least. Then she strapped RZ-1 engine block to it.

I'll give you the Striker, but then take it back because in it's era ALL the TIEs were essentially building block pieces in different configs. Which apparently the FO just let rolling with adding in some photos shop along the way 😄. The U is all new though. The only carry over it got was the gun layout from the Y. There's nothing else that seems carried.

Really, you don't see that? Well okay then. That's interesting I guess. And yeah I'm throwing the FO bomber in there.

I'll also point out I resent the E hate. I hadn't even heard about it until it came out in first Ed and even then I was drawn to it. It looks like an evolution on a series of designs. Sure, top gun could use a shift, but I thought it was a cool idea all around otherwise. It's an evolution. It's supposed to look like it's between two states. Is play one in every list of they actually priced the poor thing efficiently. I would like my official member card of the 100 people that like the @#$& thing now please. Card number 7, if it's available lol 😎❤️

I haven't yet seen the final battle in it's entirety to be fair. But I kinda agree with @Vontoothskie here too. Without some head Canon fill in, it's really hard to buy that last battle scene. The MonCal had 20 years and probably (again, even to get that 'probably' I'm injecting some head in here) Republic support to rebuild the fleet. To see basically a dozen ships in The final battle when the FO had already burned through a dread, the supremacy and it's escort, AND an entire planet-gun, and STILL had forces to spare? Yeah there some funky math here. I think what he's getting at is that seeing a smattering of ships instead of a few full fleet militia mixed in, for each member system that's resisting, each with their own capitals and fighters... its just pretty hard to buy.

You can believe a few random folks like Tramp freighters and thrill seeker aces showing up to throw in too, sure. But to imagine the bulk of the resistance is comprised of 14,000 individual ships each operating on their own? It's really just not believable. I guess unless you just want it to be so hard that you roll with it regardless? Note, that's kinda the whole ST anyway. Soo if it floats your boat... I guess.🤗

3 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

I'm confused by your logic. I can't tell if we're missing each other's point or not?

I'm saying that the 70 was lazy because it shouldn't be there except in the background. There should be the "branch out" in the foreground that you mention. That way in the background you get that, 'oh yeah, look back there, it's an X' you mention, but the focus is on the new era. It's been over twenty years for crying out loud. Like, if your going to defend a series that had "let the past die" as a tag line, you should probably let the old ship design take the back seat song with all those characters they tried so desperately to move past. You should have had something new instead.

Like I mentioned, the transport the resistance uses does this. Clearly they moved past the B when we saw it in ep7, and relegated the old ones to refits. I agree it's still super lazy they rezed the B in 9 for fan service and basically back tracked that and said 'oh no, we still use all the old stuff, it's just super shiny now'. That's a missed opportunity to introduce something new.

I would extremely strongly disagree that they 'nailed' the design of the FO ships you mention. The silencer and bomber are special examples of lazy to me. They just took a squint and a bomber, dropped them in photo shop, flattened and stretched the first, then swapped the wings on the other, and hit invert-color. Done. That's lazy. We got new-old TIEs of every type. Boring.

The upsilon I suppose was pretty good. Took the old aesthetic of folding upright wings big shuttle, and took it 5 different directions at once. They got rid of the dorsal entirely, made the side wings straight, moved the joint and incorporated the landing gear into the transition, incorporated an extendable section, reconfigured the weapons array entirely, and swapped out the old cockpit standard size to that size vessel and replaced it with something more akin to the command bridge you'd expect on a vessel more in the Corvette class. You get that it's a shuttle. You know where it comes from in design philosophy. But it's a total evolution of thought. The old one just moved dudes and material. This new one provided a suitable mobile battlefield command center. That's pretty neat. Even if they still hit color invert 😐😜

They showed us that evolved SD in 7... Kinda. 7 only gave us that one super long shot of some new Republic stuff. Then we got a few more in 8 but shoved it aside to the back for the Dreadnought. Which outside of 'it's a triangle' had almost no cues to show the carry over. It was super blocky, not Arrowhead shaped, oddly planned out. Like, I want to love it, but it literally falls flat. Then the Supremacy's appearance made you wonder even more where you got the dread idea from. The Sup looked like it's sister designs aesthetic at least. (Dumb thought, that movie would have been way better with a second supreme instead of the Dread. Would have given more ideas to how much material the FO was throwing around, as well as some consistency. PO.)

But then we get back to 9 and SURPRISE! ISD 1s! ... Again... Yay? Lazy AF.

@KCDodger ... You really don't look at those ships and immediately read 'scrap built ugly'? Those first two are staight up Zs. I know I've seen her ship somewhere else in legends before. Recannonized at least. Then she strapped RZ-1 engine block to it.

I'll give you the Striker, but then take it back because in it's era ALL the TIEs were essentially building block pieces in different configs. Which apparently the FO just let rolling with adding in some photos shop along the way 😄. The U is all new though. The only carry over it got was the gun layout from the Y. There's nothing else that seems carried.

Really, you don't see that? Well okay then. That's interesting I guess. And yeah I'm throwing the FO bomber in there.

I'll also point out I resent the E hate. I hadn't even heard about it until it came out in first Ed and even then I was drawn to it. It looks like an evolution on a series of designs. Sure, top gun could use a shift, but I thought it was a cool idea all around otherwise. It's an evolution. It's supposed to look like it's between two states. Is play one in every list of they actually priced the poor thing efficiently. I would like my official member card of the 100 people that like the @#$& thing now please. Card number 7, if it's available lol 😎❤️

I haven't yet seen the final battle in it's entirety to be fair. But I kinda agree with @Vontoothskie here too. Without some head Canon fill in, it's really hard to buy that last battle scene. The MonCal had 20 years and probably (again, even to get that 'probably' I'm injecting some head in here) Republic support to rebuild the fleet. To see basically a dozen ships in The final battle when the FO had already burned through a dread, the supremacy and it's escort, AND an entire planet-gun, and STILL had forces to spare? Yeah there some funky math here. I think what he's getting at is that seeing a smattering of ships instead of a few full fleet militia mixed in, for each member system that's resisting, each with their own capitals and fighters... its just pretty hard to buy.

You can believe a few random folks like Tramp freighters and thrill seeker aces showing up to throw in too, sure. But to imagine the bulk of the resistance is comprised of 14,000 individual ships each operating on their own? It's really just not believable. I guess unless you just want it to be so hard that you roll with it regardless? Note, that's kinda the whole ST anyway. Soo if it floats your boat... I guess.🤗

I can't take calling the TIE Silencer lazy seriously, Force. I won't even acknowledge this.

2 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

snip

the amazing part of all this to me is that while we both think ep7 and 9 were lazy, we do so for such completely different reasoning that we couldn't be possibly more in disagreement except for the fact that technically we came to the same conclusion.

its just amazing.

like, none of your arguments are even close to making any sort of sense to me. And neither do most other peoples.

That's the even more amazing part. A ton of people on this site have opinions, some similar to mine. None of them even close to resemble any other persons. We can't even agree on basic fact well enough to do opinion comparisons.

Its not even like "whoa who woulda thunk people have opinions man and they're all different and that's ok", no that's not ok at all. Most people's logic and rationale for these opinions are pure patch-hole-y, utterly not counter-tested, and really are thinly veiled ignorant(of how the story actually works/what is actually on screen, sometimes even due to missed interpretations or moments) subjectiveness in the veneer of rationale. Its not rational at all. And a lot barely with capable film-media-story-interpreting ability.

---

--

like what. The T70 X is lazy? The Silencers and Whispers are awful? WHAT? And like, what, who cares? Like, is the Xi and the Upsilon bad too? What?

The U is new?? WHOA BUDDY, that ones a derivative (albeit rather derived) of the Ywing.

There's whole articles on the slowness/fastness of star wars technological advances. Have you read those?

Anyway. 7 is bad. 9 is bad. A lot is really bad.

A good place to start on audience perception and film-understanding is the argument on why "Luke is not a triumphant, self-realized hero in the original trilogy"

1 hour ago, KCDodger said:

I can't take calling the TIE Silencer lazy seriously, Force. I won't even acknowledge this.

In fairness. I think the silencer is gorgeous. It's well-executed as a ship design and its appearance in The Last Jedi is one of the best bits of the film - showing off Kylo simultaneously as every bit the pilot someone who is genetically Han Solo + Anakin Skywalker should be, and providing one of the best emotive tension bits of the film with the Kylo/Leia/LeHuse sequence.

I also think, however, that the design is a result of someone at Disney looking through their IP back catalogue finding the TIE Avenger from the X-wing PC games. So whilst I will give it it's due and defend it as well designed, I will question a claim that it is creatively designed. The fact that it is officially the 'TIE/vn', when that sounds suspiciously like a short-code you might give something called 'avenger' and nothing like a short-code you might give something called 'silencer' reinforces that suspicion.

My opinionated ignorant whine is that I think that JJ was completely the wrong choice and utterly not prepared for the magnitude of the role of Star Wars sequels (7 and 9) director. I understand that 8 wasn't his movie nor his design. I also understand that he was signed on for 9 kind of in the middle of things (and I absolutely hate the rushedness of the choice of directors and to begin even making these films).

(btw guys, see these? These are called counterarguments and qualifications and counterarguments to my own assertions and opinions. These are important. They're what 99% of people are missing and why their arguments are one dimensional)

Like really. Star Wars as a company, you thought it was the right time to find someone to fill George Lucas' idiotic shoes? And then you decided NOT to have an overarching direction/director for all 3 sequel films, and you picked NOW is the time, and you picked JJ for TWO films????????? HALLO.

(Hey at least we got some cool things outta the films? I'm glad those who died recently got to see it too. )

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

My opinionated ignorant whine is that I think that JJ was completely the wrong choice and utterly not prepared for the magnitude of the role of Star Wars sequels (7 and 9) director. I understand that 8 wasn't his movie nor his design. I also understand that he was signed on for 9 kind of in the middle of things (and I absolutely hate the rushedness of the choice of directors and to begin even making these films).

Quite aside from who specifically was the director, the sheer amount of chopping and changing directors mid-production on almost all the Star Wars films is something to note. I know it happens in the industry generally but it seems to happen a lot with star wars.

9 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

In fairness. I think the silencer is gorgeous. It's well-executed as a ship design and its appearance in The Last Jedi is one of the best bits of the film - showing off Kylo simultaneously as every bit the pilot someone who is genetically Han Solo + Anakin Skywalker should be, and providing one of the best emotive tension bits of the film with the Kylo/Leia/LeHuse sequence.

I also think, however, that the design is a result of someone at Disney looking through their IP back catalogue finding the TIE Avenger from the X-wing PC games. So whilst I will give it it's due and defend it as well designed, I will question a claim that it is creatively designed. The fact that it is officially the 'TIE/vn', when that sounds suspiciously like a short-code you might give something called 'avenger' and nothing like a short-code you might give something called 'silencer' reinforces that suspicion.

For comparison - bear in mind this is a late 90's PC graphic.

Ey, don't gotta' show me what a TIE Avenger looks like. I even know that the wide cockpit was a byproduct of the engine, while the CG model used for the weapon selection had a much more standard cockpit.

But you're off the mark about VN. The original name planned was TIE Vendetta. That didn't stick, but they liked TIE/VN. Now, here's the thing right? The TIE Silencer is a wide-bodied TIE that has a completely unique canopy- there are so many ships in its blood.

1: The TIE Advanced, serving as the "Big bad"'s prototype starfighter that outperforms all the rest, but also acts as a testbed for future First Order Craft (We DO see this later, since his custom TIE Whisper uses the same wings,
2: The Millennium Falcon, in its thrust-spewing, wide framed engine that takes up the entire rear half of the starship. And the canopy. The Canopy was described as having to be designed to evoke The Falcon- and it does! Far more than it does any TIE Fighter. Obviously the idea of making Falcon-TIE is to show that Kylo Ren is still Ben, and that the conflict in him is wholly unresolved. (Which, I guess is why he has a straight up FO TIE in TRoS come to think of it..!)
3: The TIE Interceptor, and I don't have to point out why.
4: The TIE Bomber! Largely with the atypically long body, heavy payload, and long, long and full wings.
5: Finally, the TIE Avenger, and it's pretty obvious that it served as at least some kind of inspiration. That's just it though. It wasn't the primary blood of this Starfighter, I think. The body, maybe. But x1 and YT-1300 blood is far stronger in it than TIE Avenger blood is.

The TIE Silencer (it really should be TIE/sn) is definitely the best designed villain ship of Disney's making. Lots of thought went into this thing. I love it, tbh.

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Quite aside from who specifically was the director, the sheer amount of chopping and changing directors mid-production on almost all the Star Wars films is something to note. I know it happens in the industry generally but it seems to happen a lot with star wars.

Nah, it gets reported a lot in Star Wars. Largely because it gets a big buzz.

9 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

snip

You know the frakking wild part, Blail?
I'm right here with you on this one. None of his argument made a single lick of sense. I just could not understand a second of it, it was completely and utterly baffling. Especially calling the U-Wing wholly original. (IT LITERALLY HAS X-WING ENGINES AAAAAAAAA)

9 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Anyway. 7 is bad. 9 is bad. A lot is really bad.

A good place to start on audience perception and film-understanding is the argument on why "Luke is not a triumphant, self-realized hero in the original trilogy"

By that you mean, how Luke isn't a classic excalibur wielding man of prowess, right? Like. Apparently some people's mental image of Luke is one of just, nigh unstoppable badassery? Which is wack to me. He was always kind of an impulsive brat who definitely took the responsibility of his circumstances in stride but never like... He wasn't any type of classic hero people think he was.

I'm still getting over people saying he should have taken down the first order at crait for real. Absolutely missing the point of what it is to be a Jedi because they're too drunk off that prequel jedi sauce, I guess.