The visual dictionary puts the Sith Eternal Fleet in the “hundreds.”
I am hoping the novelization will mention of the Fleet compositions further. And if Sith Fleet were under crewed.
As it stands, with the exception of their Flagship, the First Order’s Fleet assets were spread around the Galaxy during the battle.
**The assumption here is a high percentage of those vessels were non capital class ships.
14,000 ships correctly navigated to a planet that was supposed to be incredibly hard to get to all on the word of a retired general that they wouldn’t just die. On his word alone without the time to verify if he was legit
14,000 ships which traveled from all reaches of the galaxy...
In... 16 hours
Jesus tapdancing christ. Nothing about the end battle sequence of that movie makes any sense after even the slightest bit of critical thinking
Edited by Church14
8 minutes ago, Church14 said:14,000 ships correctly navigated to a planet that was supposed to be incredibly hard to get to all on the word of a retired general that they wouldn’t just die. On his word alone without the time to verify if he was legit
14,000 ships which traveled from all reaches of the galaxy...
In... 16 hours
Jesus tapdancing christ. Nothing about the end battle sequence of that movie makes any sense after even the slightest bit of critical thinking
A retired General who blew up a death star
7 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:A retired General who blew up a death star
I mean to verify he is actually Lando. How many con men pretending to be the great Lando Calrissian are out there looking for the next mark?
3 hours ago, Church14 said:14,000 ships which traveled from all reaches of the galaxy...
In... 16 hours
THIS is my biggest concern about the new movies. Time and distance has no meaning anymore.
No matter where a fleet is, they can travel through the galaxy in a few hours. But the "other side" is not able to bring in any of their reinforcements?
Even in Rogue one (imo by far the best of the new movies) they did the same. The Fleet, that went to Scarif, came from the other side of the galaxy (Yavin) within a few hours (or even less). But the Imperials are not able to bring in a few hundert ISD as support?
But worst was Last Jedi. I am still shivering when i think about this "chasing" and this side trip to Canto Bight during the chase. This stupid movie could be cut to 10 min and would still fit between EP 7 and 9 without any problems (Isnt there someone who could do this? 😀).
Take New hope for compare. The travel from Tatooine to Alderaan. It could have been hours, days, week or even month. It did not matter and was not mentioned. This was fine. But doing two (or more) plots at the same time, and giving one a time frame, could mess up the second one. And this is what happens in all the new Star Wars movies (same as in Fast and Furious, Plane takeoff ..., can still laught about this... 😉😀).
45 minutes ago, Tokra said:THIS is my biggest concern about the new movies. Time and distance has no meaning anymore.
No matter where a fleet is, they can travel through the galaxy in a few hours. But the "other side" is not able to bring in any of their reinforcements?Even in Rogue one (imo by far the best of the new movies) they did the same. The Fleet, that went to Scarif, came from the other side of the galaxy (Yavin) within a few hours (or even less). But the Imperials are not able to bring in a few hundert ISD as support?
But worst was Last Jedi. I am still shivering when i think about this "chasing" and this side trip to Canto Bight during the chase. This stupid movie could be cut to 10 min and would still fit between EP 7 and 9 without any problems (Isnt there someone who could do this? 😀).
Take New hope for compare. The travel from Tatooine to Alderaan. It could have been hours, days, week or even month. It did not matter and was not mentioned. This was fine. But doing two (or more) plots at the same time, and giving one a time frame, could mess up the second one. And this is what happens in all the new Star Wars movies (same as in Fast and Furious, Plane takeoff ..., can still laught about this... 😉😀).
Yea timing on this whole trilogy has been off. We are to believe all this happened within the span of a few months.
4 hours ago, Tokra said:THIS is my biggest concern about the new movies. Time and distance has no meaning anymore.
No matter where a fleet is, they can travel through the galaxy in a few hours. But the "other side" is not able to bring in any of their reinforcements?Even in Rogue one (imo by far the best of the new movies) they did the same. The Fleet, that went to Scarif, came from the other side of the galaxy (Yavin) within a few hours (or even less). But the Imperials are not able to bring in a few hundert ISD as support?
But worst was Last Jedi. I am still shivering when i think about this "chasing" and this side trip to Canto Bight during the chase. This stupid movie could be cut to 10 min and would still fit between EP 7 and 9 without any problems (Isnt there someone who could do this? 😀).
Take New hope for compare. The travel from Tatooine to Alderaan. It could have been hours, days, week or even month. It did not matter and was not mentioned. This was fine. But doing two (or more) plots at the same time, and giving one a time frame, could mess up the second one. And this is what happens in all the new Star Wars movies (same as in Fast and Furious, Plane takeoff ..., can still laught about this... 😉😀).
It’s not just Star Wars. JJ set this completely ***** crazy power scaling in Star Trek as well.
Travel From Earth to Vulcan in the prime timeline took the Enterprise 4 days. In the 2009 trek movie it took... 15 minutes?
in Picard’s time, long range teleport required massive power and extremely advanced facilities. In 2009, Spock gives the Federation the equations to do it with any transporter at all and the range is dramatically increased.
JJ and the writers he recruits don't give a flying **** about how long things take. It makes every movie they make fall apart under even light scrutiny. Star Trek 2009 was even more egregious because all the characters were in the same location. There was no reason to remove the concept of time from that movie in order to get multiple plot threads aligned.
52 minutes ago, Church14 said:It’s not just Star Wars. JJ set this completely ***** crazy power scaling in Star Trek as well.
Travel From Earth to Vulcan in the prime timeline took the Enterprise 4 days. In the 2009 trek movie it took... 15 minutes?
in Picard’s time, long range teleport required massive power and extremely advanced facilities. In 2009, Spock gives the Federation the equations to do it with any transporter at all and the range is dramatically increased.
JJ and the writers he recruits don't give a flying **** about how long things take. It makes every movie they make fall apart under even light scrutiny. Star Trek 2009 was even more egregious because all the characters were in the same location. There was no reason to remove the concept of time from that movie in order to get multiple plot threads aligned.
Beaming from Earth to Kronos ...... 😜
2 hours ago, Church14 said:Travel From Earth to Vulcan in the prime timeline took the Enterprise 4 days. In the 2009 trek movie it took... 15 minutes?
in Picard’s time, long range teleport required massive power and extremely advanced facilities.
Didn't seem to cost Voyager that much energy to use their infinite range teleportation device (Warp 10). 😜
1 hour ago, Tokra said:Beaming from Earth to Kronos ...... 😜
I chose **dramatically** increased as the description very much on purpose. JJ doesn’t ever do anything because it makes sense. He does it to be DRAMATIC.
I can’t write drama there without unnecessary capitalizing because what JJ does isn’t drama. Drama requires investment into characters and risks/challenges they are exposed to. JJ just makes things bigger, faster, and dumber so people get overwhelmed.
It's not like Star Wars ever cared how long travel took. You may want to act like it has, but it simply hasn't. Hyperspace has always been a hand wavey time cut that isn't well defined. Sure, games and people have tried to explain it all in great detail, but those explanations often contradict what we see in even the OT.
****, hyperspace itself as seen in the OT is nuts. An entire fleet of ships with various hyperdrive ratings, various levels of upkeep, and various skills of pilots enter hyperspace with the same ending coordinates but somehow come out in the exact same formation with the exact same distance from one another and all at the same time. At those speeds and distances even the slightest miscalculation by a buggy computer, or a quirky droid should result in massive problems. Heck, even without such imperfections, the ships should be tripping over each other coming out of hyperspace. Heck, the very concept of hyperspace taking days or weeks to travel makes hyperdrives in snubfighters an insane idea to begin with. Imagine being confined to a cockpit for days or a week at a time. It would have similar effects as solitary confinement in prisons, and the physical effects it would have would leave you unable to effectively pilot the craft at the other end of the jump.
Fact of the matter is that most of the 'big' complaints I come across about the new movies also apply to the OT. I'm not saying the new movies don't have problems. They do. They have some HUGE, glaring issues. But those are hardly ever the issues that I see being discussed.
15 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:****, hyperspace itself as seen in the OT is nuts. An entire fleet of ships with various hyperdrive ratings, various levels of upkeep, and various skills of pilots enter hyperspace with the same ending coordinates but somehow come out in the exact same formation with the exact same distance from one another and all at the same time. At those speeds and distances even the slightest miscalculation by a buggy computer, or a quirky droid should result in massive problems. Heck, even without such imperfections, the ships should be tripping over each other coming out of hyperspace. Heck, the very concept of hyperspace taking days or weeks to travel makes hyperdrives in snubfighters an insane idea to begin with. Imagine being confined to a cockpit for days or a week at a time. It would have similar effects as solitary confinement in prisons, and the physical effects it would have would leave you unable to effectively pilot the craft at the other end of the jump.
Nevermind the activation/deactivation of the hyperdrive ITSELF being a lever shifted up or down in the cockpit. You're travelling, what, billions of miles a second, and that handle takes how many seconds to switch from 'on' to 'off'? 1.000002 seconds or 1.000003? Because that turns out to be a difference of a few thousand miles...
14 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:It's not like Star Wars ever cared how long travel took. You may want to act like it has, but it simply hasn't. Hyperspace has always been a hand wavey time cut that isn't well defined. Sure, games and people have tried to explain it all in great detail, but those explanations often contradict what we see in even the OT.
****, hyperspace itself as seen in the OT is nuts. An entire fleet of ships with various hyperdrive ratings, various levels of upkeep, and various skills of pilots enter hyperspace with the same ending coordinates but somehow come out in the exact same formation with the exact same distance from one another and all at the same time. At those speeds and distances even the slightest miscalculation by a buggy computer, or a quirky droid should result in massive problems. Heck, even without such imperfections, the ships should be tripping over each other coming out of hyperspace. Heck, the very concept of hyperspace taking days or weeks to travel makes hyperdrives in snubfighters an insane idea to begin with. Imagine being confined to a cockpit for days or a week at a time. It would have similar effects as solitary confinement in prisons, and the physical effects it would have would leave you unable to effectively pilot the craft at the other end of the jump.
Fact of the matter is that most of the 'big' complaints I come across about the new movies also apply to the OT. I'm not saying the new movies don't have problems. They do. They have some HUGE, glaring issues. But those are hardly ever the issues that I see being discussed.
Unrelated, but did anyone else catch the scene in VII where the X-wings were just, like, waiting in hyperspace for StarKiller's shield to drop? Were they parked? Is that a thing? It makes wonder if because of the way hyperspace is defined they could actually just sorta "stop" in hyperspace, it would make this
3 minutes ago, xanderf said:Nevermind the activation/deactivation of the hyperdrive ITSELF being a lever shifted up or down in the cockpit. You're travelling, what, billions of miles a second, and that handle takes how many seconds to switch from 'on' to 'off'? 1.000002 seconds or 1.000003? Because that turns out to be a difference of a few thousand miles...
make more sense too, but also make the stuff Han did much less impressive. lol
I think it's generally just the rule of cool.
I’d be willing to hand wave hyperspace timing if it wasn’t that in JJ movies there is no concept of time. Nothing takes time to complete. NOTHING
Travel times: Less than 8 hours from one side of the galaxy to the other. Not including all the time Lando spent broadcasting the message and answering questions
Time to heal physical wounds: As long as is most dramatic. Usually instantaneous between cuts because main characters don’t suffer lasting negative repercussions in a JJ movie.
Time to heal psychological wounds like realizing you murdered a trusted ally: Instantaneous between cuts. BECAUSE MACGUFFINS!
Time to move an unconscious person from where they were shot or sliced by lightsaber: No idea, but quick enough that the ship or planet isn’t destroyed.
Time to destroy a planet: exactly 3 seconds longer than it takes the good guys to escape.
Time for light to travel hundreds or thousands of light years: 30 seconds.
Time for a light based weapon to travel hundreds or thousands of light years: 30 seconds and a lense flare.
Time for light from the light based weapon to then travel to other systems and be visible to scared and justifiably confused people: Instantaneous
Time to design and implement complex tactical plans with multiple moving parts and hundreds/thousands of troops that aren’t used to large scale operations: Instantaneous for all we know.
Edited by Church1420 minutes ago, Church14 said:I’d be willing to hand wave hyperspace timing if it wasn’t that in JJ movies there is no concept of time. Nothing takes time to complete. NOTHING
Travel times: Less than 8 hours from one side of the galaxy to the other. Not including all the time Lando spent broadcasting the message and answering questions
Time to heal physical wounds: As long as is most dramatic. Usually instantaneous between cuts because main characters don’t suffer lasting negative repercussions in a JJ movie.
Time to heal psychological wounds like realizing you murdered a trusted ally: Instantaneous between cuts. BECAUSE MACGUFFINS!
Time to move an unconscious person from where they were shot or sliced by lightsaber: No idea, but quick enough that the ship or planet isn’t destroyed.
Time to destroy a planet: exactly 3 seconds longer than it takes the good guys to escape.
Time for light to travel hundreds or thousands of light years: 30 seconds.
Time for a light based weapon to travel hundreds or thousands of light years: 30 seconds and a lense flare.Time for light from the light based weapon to then travel to other systems and be visible to scared and justifiably confused people: Instantaneous
Time to design and implement complex tactical plans with multiple moving parts and hundreds/thousands of troops that aren’t used to large scale operations: Instantaneous for all we know.
Don't these apply to most Star Wars films, not just JJ's? I mean, the science in Star Wars has always been laughably bad.
That was why it was identified as space opera instead of science fiction.
It's not about the science, it's about the drama. That's why the good guy/bad guy dynamics are like philosophy for children.
6 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:Don't these apply to most Star Wars films, not just JJ's? I mean, the science in Star Wars has always been laughably bad.
That was why it was identified as space opera instead of science fiction.
It's not about the science, it's about the drama. That's why the good guy/bad guy dynamics are like philosophy for children.
Sure.
Except that JJ gives you a clock. He has his films edited to emphasize the frantic pacing. The first half of TFA actually wasn’t too bad.
I don’t mind that TFA doesn’t say how long from Jakku to Maz’ castle or how long to reach the resistance base. That isn’t important because there aren’t other time critical events happening. Rey is kidnapped. But that isn’t attached to a doomsday clock
But TFA makes it clear that everyone sees the NotADeathStar weapon fire and blow up planets simultaneously. Then it calls out recharge time on Starkiller base which is almost a literal ticking clock. That’s when things stop taking time and just happen.
I find it laughable the entirety of Rise of Skywalker happens in the span of 16 hours. Let that sink in. Sixteen hours.
A WEG era Assault Frigate Mk 1 can supposedly be seen in a shot but I have no confirmation of this yet.
18 hours ago, kmanweiss said:It's not like Star Wars ever cared how long travel took. You may want to act like it has, but it simply hasn't. Hyperspace has always been a hand wavey time cut that isn't well defined. Sure, games and people have tried to explain it all in great detail, but those explanations often contradict what we see in even the OT.
****, hyperspace itself as seen in the OT is nuts. An entire fleet of ships with various hyperdrive ratings, various levels of upkeep, and various skills of pilots enter hyperspace with the same ending coordinates but somehow come out in the exact same formation with the exact same distance from one another and all at the same time. At those speeds and distances even the slightest miscalculation by a buggy computer, or a quirky droid should result in massive problems. Heck, even without such imperfections, the ships should be tripping over each other coming out of hyperspace. Heck, the very concept of hyperspace taking days or weeks to travel makes hyperdrives in snubfighters an insane idea to begin with. Imagine being confined to a cockpit for days or a week at a time. It would have similar effects as solitary confinement in prisons, and the physical effects it would have would leave you unable to effectively pilot the craft at the other end of the jump.
Fact of the matter is that most of the 'big' complaints I come across about the new movies also apply to the OT. I'm not saying the new movies don't have problems. They do. They have some HUGE, glaring issues. But those are hardly ever the issues that I see being discussed.
This makes me appreciate mass effects lore on fleet jumps through mass relays. The larger the mass (and distance?) the larger the margin of error for the point of destination, at least for the non-linked short distance relays. So a fleet can either do a single jump together, resulting in a very large mass and thus very imprecise destination but everyone staying together or for more accuracy let each vessel jump independently, resulting in a much smaller bubble but with the entire fleet scattered throughout it.
On 1/27/2020 at 11:00 PM, Church14 said:14,000 ships correctly navigated to a planet that was supposed to be incredibly hard to get to all on the word of a retired general that they wouldn’t just die. On his word alone without the time to verify if he was legit
14,000 ships which traveled from all reaches of the galaxy...
In... 16 hours
Jesus tapdancing christ. Nothing about the end battle sequence of that movie makes any sense after even the slightest bit of critical thinking
It's a bad movie, OP
Hot Take:
Don't care, it was a fun movie to watch. I'm not going to scrutinize it and lose my ability to enjoy it.
13 minutes ago, Ling27 said:Hot Take:
Don't care, it was a fun movie to watch. I'm not going to scrutinize it and lose my ability to enjoy it.
Got take. Bad Movie =/= not enjoyable.
Though I find the movie much too fast paced for it to be enjoyable. **** Chewie “dies” then is immediately shown to be fine. At that point I knew they weren’t going to kill any of the main cast on the good side.
2 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:Got take. Bad Movie =/= not enjoyable.
Though I find the movie much too fast paced for it to be enjoyable. **** Chewie “dies” then is immediately shown to be fine. At that point I knew they weren’t going to kill any of the main cast on the good side.
Thats fine. I'm not saying you have to like or enjoy it. Just dont tell me I am wrong for enjoying something.
I enjoyed the movie well enough on it's face, but every single time some new specific "clarification" is presented, it makes it dumber and dumber.
In Movie: Oh, sweet, Palps had a bunch of surplus ISDs tucked away for his evil --- NOPE! Brand ******* new, AND bigger. Because.
And now this 14,000 ships bull. A couple hundred is cool and Star Wars-ey, but 14,000 is pure bull.
(eta: bullsh** should be edited to all stars or bull****. Editing it to "bull" is as stupid as building a thousand plus-sized Star Destroyers.)
Edited by NotBatman
The more I analyze the movie, the less I like it. It's still Star Wars... so it's hard for me to rate as bad, but honest to god I may like EP2 more than EP9. I never thought, in a million years, I'd look at a Star Wars film and think, "If I had a choice, I'd rather watch EP2".
On the surface it's a decent movie, plenty of action, some cool force power scenes, and a tonne of call backs and references. Go any deeper and it's a mess. Pacing is a huge issue, as stated by others. Palpatine's return created so many issues. The movie had terrible conveyance. Opening crawl is just "Oh yeah, BTW Palps is back..." I felt that characters were scripted in just to insert dialogue to explain what was happening. Maz, one of my favorites from 7, was basically there like a 90's anime character to explain the secret move the old master was using... The fleets/ space travel logic... whew lad... what a mess. Palpatine's plan? No sense in the context of the other movies...
If the "Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi" line is true, then Disney is no Jedi.
They scrapped any notion of originality or plot depth to stuff as many call backs and nostalgia into 3 hours as they could.
The sad part is, they had free reign to make a real masterpiece. Love or hate 8, it left the template for the last chapter wide open. There were so many directions they could have gone. They chose mass appeal.
Love or hate 9, I'm glad they're stepping away from the old cast and timeline. Hopefully being disconnected from the OT will ease the collective hurt of the fanbase when/if they do something original in the new movies.