Yesterday I played 2 rounds flying Kylo (with Optics), Holo and Vonreg (both with Daredevil) against 4 T-70's (one of them was Poe). It was a really depressing experience...

Because I've only played two games take everything I'll say with a grain of salt:

I am not a fan of the TIE/ba in a pure ace list. There were a lot of situations where I just wanted to take a stress instead of strain/deplete. Stress doesn't harm your offense or defence while strain or deplete does. I often found myself in situations where Vonreg dodged a couple of arcs but still got shot by a X-Wing. In these cases I coulnd't take a strain because I don't want him to take damage. So I took a deplete and wasn't able to do much damage at all. I also really struggeld with the lack of boost for an action. So often I just wanted to disengage, boost and focus. Only being able to barrel roll first was a huge disadvantage. This fact is also hurting your future turn where you would have needed a different angle for a better approach. But because of a shot is coming in you can't just boost and pray to the dice gods, so Vonreg's staying where he is taking a focus or evade. Daredevil though is a good upgrade with what you can do crazy things.

Comparing this ace list to my imperial aces (Soontir, Duchess, Inqi), the imperials are definitely better (higher bit and better maneuverability with more constant damage).

Imo the Tie/ba might work better with some kind of swarm or mini swarm FO salad. Or maybe I just played it wrong

1 hour ago, Ryuneke said:

Yesterday I played 2 rounds flying Kylo (with Optics), Holo and Vonreg (both with Daredevil) against 4 T-70's (one of them was Poe). It was a really depressing experience...

Because I've only played two games take everything I'll say with a grain of salt:

I am not a fan of the TIE/ba in a pure ace list. There were a lot of situations where I just wanted to take a stress instead of strain/deplete. Stress doesn't harm your offense or defence while strain or deplete does. I often found myself in situations where Vonreg dodged a couple of arcs but still got shot by a X-Wing. In these cases I coulnd't take a strain because I don't want him to take damage. So I took a deplete and wasn't able to do much damage at all. I also really struggeld with the lack of boost for an action. So often I just wanted to disengage, boost and focus. Only being able to barrel roll first was a huge disadvantage. This fact is also hurting your future turn where you would have needed a different angle for a better approach. But because of a shot is coming in you can't just boost and pray to the dice gods, so Vonreg's staying where he is taking a focus or evade. Daredevil though is a good upgrade with what you can do crazy things.

Comparing this ace list to my imperial aces (Soontir, Duchess, Inqi), the imperials are definitely better (higher bit and better maneuverability with more constant damage).

Imo the Tie/ba might work better with some kind of swarm or mini swarm FO salad. Or maybe I just played it wrong

I loved deplete because i was purely running away with Vonreg vs 75-100% of my opponents list. It works very similarly to stress when you're not attacking, which is what 100% running away feels like.

9 hours ago, Ryuneke said:

I am not a fan of the TIE/ba in a pure ace list. There were a lot of situations where I just wanted to take a stress instead of strain/deplete. Stress doesn't harm your offense or defence while strain or deplete does. I often found myself in situations where Vonreg dodged a couple of arcs but still got shot by a X-Wing. In these cases I coulnd't take a strain because I don't want him to take damage. So I took a deplete and wasn't able to do much damage at all.

This is why I think Holo will be the standout. He can toss those strains and depletes away when needed.

Vonreg will always have a place somewhere with i6 and cheap-ish cost. A fine mag pulse carrier for an adv optics mini swarm or something.

31 minutes ago, wurms said:

This is why I think Holo will be the standout. He can toss those strains and depletes away when needed.

Vonreg will always have a place somewhere with i6 and cheap-ish cost. A fine mag pulse carrier for an adv optics mini swarm or something.

Yes, Holo plus swarm will be pretty good.

Thought about something like this:

"Holo" (54)
Deuterium Power Cells (9)

“Scorch” (33)

“Longshot” (31)

Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)
Advanced Optics (4)

Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)
Advanced Optics (4)
Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

10 hours ago, Ryuneke said:

Imo the Tie/ba might work better with some kind of swarm or mini swarm FO salad. Or maybe I just played it wrong

I think you played it right. The empire and republic are much better positioned for trip aces than FO. Which is fine I want FO to have it's own identity.

This is the next list I want to try:

TIE/ba Interceptor - •“Holo” - 56
•“Holo” - Trick of the Light (54)
Proud Tradition (2)

TIE/sf Fighter - •Lieutenant LeHuse - 49
•Lieutenant LeHuse - Unflinching Executioner (39)
Special Forces Gunner (10)

TIE/fo Fighter - •Lieutenant Rivas - 27
•Lieutenant Rivas - Inconvenient Witness (27)

TIE/fo Fighter - •TN-3465 - 28
•TN-3465 - Loose End (28)

TIE/fo Fighter - •“Muse” - 32
•“Muse” - Epsilon Leader (30)
Proud Tradition (2)

Total: 192/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

59 minutes ago, reqent said:

I think you played it right. The empire and republic are much better positioned for trip aces than FO. Which is fine I want FO to have it's own identity.

This is the next list I want to try:

TIE/ba Interceptor - •“Holo” - 56
•“Holo” - Trick of the Light (54)
Proud Tradition (2)

TIE/sf Fighter - •Lieutenant LeHuse - 49
•Lieutenant LeHuse - Unflinching Executioner (39)
Special Forces Gunner (10)

TIE/fo Fighter - •Lieutenant Rivas - 27
•Lieutenant Rivas - Inconvenient Witness (27)

TIE/fo Fighter - •TN-3465 - 28
•TN-3465 - Loose End (28)

TIE/fo Fighter - •“Muse” - 32
•“Muse” - Epsilon Leader (30)
Proud Tradition (2)

Total: 192/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I really enjoyed flying this baseline with 2x gunner zetas instead of LeHuse/Rivas. I’ll have to try this too, but the three dice guns felt really solid as an option and all I2s make maneuvering easy. I took down a Dash/Lando last night 200-70 that had been smoking my Vassal league division (although Dash had super unfortunate green dice).

Edit: your build has an advantage with the bid that mine did not, so I was stuck moving before my opponent.

5 minutes ago, dsul413 said:

I really enjoyed flying this baseline with 2x gunner zetas instead of LeHuse/Rivas.

Your probably better off with the zetas. I think once you opponent sees a fully modified shot with lehuse they are gonna put him down..... but I gotta try it!

I've been looking at some similar lists. Holo + LeHuse + Rivas + Zeta w/Passive is a fun efficiency combo if you can pull it off.

Holo locks a target during activation, Rivas gets the free lock, LeHuse spends it, Zeta locks another target during engagement and Rivas gets the second free lock to use for himself.

Obviously not worth all those shenanigans just for Rivas to get a second free lock, but if all those pieces are in the list anyway, it fits with the kinds of things they already want to be doing.

Holo + Proud Tradition (56)
LeHuse + SF Gunner (49)
Zeta Survivor + Passive Sensors + Concussion (41)
Rivas (27)
Epsilon Cadet (25)
Total: 198

I have a tournament on Saturday and I can finally use the TIE/ba! This one of the options I'm working on. I'm trying to keep my bid in the 5 to 10 area.

TIE/fo Fighter - •Lieutenant Rivas - 27
•Lieutenant Rivas - Inconvenient Witness (27)

TIE/fo Fighter - Epsilon Squadron Cadet - 25
Epsilon Squadron Cadet - (25)

TIE/fo Fighter - Epsilon Squadron Cadet - 25
Epsilon Squadron Cadet - (25)

TIE/ba Interceptor - •Major Vonreg - 57
•Major Vonreg - Red Baron (57)

TIE/ba Interceptor - •“Holo” - 56
•“Holo” - Trick of the Light (54)
Proud Tradition (2)

Total: 190/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

One of the regulars at the FLGS was talking up the quad TIE/ba list last night. He remarked that against a 5x list, it has somewhere around a 92% chance to erase one X-Wing at R2 before it can fire. The strain token isn't a huge penalty as it only triggers on the first defense roll.

He also put Holo to the test last night, flying them with a generic I3 TIE/ba and four Epsilons. Holo just carved me to pieces.

4 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

One of the regulars at the FLGS was talking up the quad TIE/ba list last night. He remarked that against a 5x list, it has somewhere around a 92% chance to erase one X-Wing at R2 before it can fire. The strain token isn't a huge penalty as it only triggers on the first defense roll.

He also put Holo to the test last night, flying them with a generic I3 TIE/ba and four Epsilons. Holo just carved me to pieces.

Strain goes away after an attack? Huh. That's news to me- and I don't mean that in any bad way. That actually sounds really solid.

14 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Strain goes away after an attack? Huh. That's news to me- and I don't mean that in any bad way. That actually sounds really solid.

Strain goes away after you roll defence dice.

Deplete goes away after you roll attack dice.

Both go away on a blue move (one of each).

13 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Strain goes away after an attack? Huh. That's news to me- and I don't mean that in any bad way. That actually sounds really solid.

Yeah, each time you apply the strain effect to a defense roll, you can remove one token. So if you have two strain tokens and are attacked twice, you would remove one for each roll of the green dice.

Deplete works the same way for offense.

3 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

Yeah, each time you apply the strain effect to a defense roll, you can remove one token. So if you have two strain tokens and are attacked twice, you would remove one for each roll of the green dice.

Deplete works the same way for offense.

Wow, that's really nice.

5 hours ago, reqent said:

I have a tournament on Saturday and I can finally use the TIE/ba! This one of the options I'm working on. I'm trying to keep my bid in the 5 to 10 area.

TIE/fo Fighter - •Lieutenant Rivas - 27
•Lieutenant Rivas - Inconvenient Witness (27)

TIE/fo Fighter - Epsilon Squadron Cadet - 25
Epsilon Squadron Cadet - (25)

TIE/fo Fighter - Epsilon Squadron Cadet - 25
Epsilon Squadron Cadet - (25)

TIE/ba Interceptor - •Major Vonreg - 57
•Major Vonreg - Red Baron (57)

TIE/ba Interceptor - •“Holo” - 56
•“Holo” - Trick of the Light (54)
Proud Tradition (2)

Total: 190/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Looks good.

One suggestion is to add Daredevil to Vonreg. Makes him even more manourverable.

IMPORTANT ITEM: When using Holo, remember that the token passing is a must. This means that if you think he's likely to get shot while there's a friendly ship within range 2 of him, and you want him to have a green token while defending, then you must also make sure he has at least one other token that he can get rid of (strain, red TL, stress, etc). Otherwise, he could find himself being forced to give away the beneficial token.

1 hour ago, PhantomFO said:

IMPORTANT ITEM: When using Holo, remember that the token passing is a must. This means that if you think he's likely to get shot while there's a friendly ship within range 2 of him, and you want him to have a green token while defending, then you must also make sure he has at least one other token that he can get rid of (strain, red TL, stress, etc). Otherwise, he could find himself being forced to give away the beneficial token.

A good move is for your ships to lock him round 1 so if you need to pass a token but need to keep a green then you can pass one of those

What are 2e target locks? You no longer have a blue token? So you can't pass that off?

You can't normally lock your allies can you? just rocks?

10 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

What are 2e target locks? You no longer have a blue token? So you can't pass that off?

You can't normally lock your allies can you? just rocks?

You can lock your friends, see Hyperspace Tracking Data upgrade as an example of it being useful.

Your other ships lock Holo, and when needed Holo passes the red lock the other ship has on Holo to another friendly ship. If you pass the red lock to the ship that originally locked Holo it is removed as you are unable to lock your self.

17 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

What are 2e target locks? You no longer have a blue token? So you can't pass that off?

You can't normally lock your allies can you? just rocks?

No blue token - correct, a lock is a single token (on the target) now.

Locking allies - incorrect, in second edition you can lock any object (friends, enemies, or obstacles, but not yourself).

Friendly locks with Holo open up a rules question - if a friendly ship locks Holo, can Holo give the lock back to that same ship to satisfy his ability? The rules reference says "A ship cannot acquire or have a lock on itself." So, is it the case that Holo can give the lock to the locker, and then the lock goes away because it can't have a lock on itself, or can the lock not be given because the locker isn't a valid receiver for the lock? I lean towards a no, but there could be arguments either way.

3 hours ago, Dasharr said:

No blue token - correct, a lock is a single token (on the target) now.

Locking allies - incorrect, in second edition you can lock any object (friends, enemies, or obstacles, but not yourself).

Friendly locks with Holo open up a rules question - if a friendly ship locks Holo, can Holo give the lock back to that same ship to satisfy his ability? The rules reference says "A ship cannot acquire or have a lock on itself." So, is it the case that Holo can give the lock to the locker, and then the lock goes away because it can't have a lock on itself, or can the lock not be given because the locker isn't a valid receiver for the lock? I lean towards a no, but there could be arguments either way.

Wouldn't this fall under the you have to spend a token for an effect, ie you can't spend a focus token if there arent any focus results to change. In this case I would argue that Holo cant give back the lock token because a ship cannot lock itself, therefore it does not fulfil the pilot ability.

1 hour ago, Archangelspiv said:

Wouldn't this fall under the you have to spend a token for an effect, ie you can't spend a focus token if there arent any focus results to change. In this case I would argue that Holo cant give back the lock token because a ship cannot lock itself, therefore it does not fulfil the pilot ability.

I'm inclined to agree. If the rules had said something like "A ship cannot acquire a lock on itself. If it ever has a lock on itself, remove the lock", then Holo would be able to do that trick. Because the rules actually say "A ship cannot acquire or have a lock on itself" then that would be an attempt to create an invalid game state, and therefore doesn't resolve.

I mean the simple way around it is to have more than one other ship near him if locks are your thing, then you can pass friendly lock A to friendly ship B. And vice versa.

Holo + proud tradition

x3 Omega FOs + proud tradition

x2 Epsilon Cadet

Holo continues to impress. Just so many options with him. He starts out as a support, tossing focuses to self bumped epsilons, or FOs flying over debris.

Then once the enemy is spread apart and damaged he moves in and full mod shot erases a ship. Proud tradition is pure gold on him.

In every game I get a nice return on my 56pt investment. Probably wont ever have an FO list without him.

On 2/1/2020 at 9:52 AM, Blail Blerg said:

What are 2e target locks? You no longer have a blue token? So you can't pass that off?

You can't normally lock your allies can you? just rocks?

You REALLY need to read the rules at least once. This is like the tenth time you have had some misconception of the basic rules.