1 hour ago, GuacCousteau said:

I think the bigger change will come with the Xi shuttle. Between Kylo, Vonreg/Holo and a cheaper crew carrier, I imagine First Order's version of Palp Aces on speed and manic self damage buffs is going to be more like the thing that gets FO competitive.

Agreed as long as the Xi is reasonably costed it will take FO up a notch.

Now my take on the TIE/ba is it very satisfying to fly. It has a higher floor than an interceptor but vonreg isn't soontir..... I think both holo and vonreg will see a lot of play. Im not sold on the generics and ember yet but I wouldn't be surprised if they work well too.

Proud tradition and dpc are awesome. The regen is crazy because you still get your action. Also if someone tractors you or jams you can spend 1 to turn it stress.

4 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Aren't Optics better on the Silencers, here? The BA can get double mods on their own, the Silencers can't.

Normally I would say yes, but at int 1 they won’t be keeping their focus to use it most of the time.
I believe in modding greens before reds, unless you roll 4 focus results at rng 1 kind of thing.

3 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

Normally I would say yes, but at int 1 they won’t be keeping their focus to use it most of the time.
I believe in modding greens before reds, unless you roll 4 focus results at rng 1 kind of thing.

But at i1 they'll have maximum knowledge of whether they need Focus for defense or offense. I also wouldn't expect the Silencers to be the main target. They're quite a bit tougher, with less offense than the BAs, so increasing their offense seems good from that perspective as well.

25 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

But at i1 they'll have maximum knowledge of whether they need Focus for defense or offense. I also wouldn't expect the Silencers to be the main target. They're quite a bit tougher, with less offense than the BAs, so increasing their offense seems good from that perspective as well.

Not saying you’re wrong Bio, just explaining my thinking. I will give it a go, was also thinking of putting Daredevil on the /ba’s. It’s a work in progress... especially as I won’t have any /ba’s until the weekend probably.

Anyone got any lists with Ember in it that they’ve had success with? Seems like the forgotten pilot of the expansion... is that fair?

5 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Aren't Optics better on the Silencers, here? The BA can get double mods on their own, the Silencers can't.

Is there something to the points balance as well that it becomes either an advantage to invest more heavily in the silencers (who are tougher) or balance it out to keep the points of each ship more even?

One thing which is nice about Optics in the Silencers is that it makes them significantly more of a threat if left alone. With Optics on the Barons, it's really tempting for an opponent to go after them. They're squishier and worth nearly as much in points, so might be a more obvious target. That leaves Silencers free to pursue. But these Silencers don't have any tricks beyond a single focus.

However, Optics is nearly as strong, mathematically speaking, as Outmaneuver.

When Silencers have Optics, your opponent is in a worse spot for target priorities. Go after the chonky bois, make them spend their focus tokens to defend, and you'll open yourselves up to Focus/Lock from the Barons. Go after the Barons, and the Silencers get free reign to spend their focus with Optics.

44 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Is there something to the points balance as well that it becomes either an advantage to invest more heavily in the silencers (who are tougher) or balance it out to keep the points of each ship more even?

Maybe? I have so little experience with i1 Silencers that I'm working on pure theory.

8 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Maybe? I have so little experience with i1 Silencers that I'm working on pure theory.

I have ever only flown Kylo and Blackout. I normally fly aces, wanted to get my generics on, thought this could be a good way in.
hopefully I can make them a thing that works

8 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

I have ever only flown Kylo and Blackout. I normally fly aces, wanted to get my generics on, thought this could be a good way in.
hopefully I can make them a thing that works

It's super fast, fairly punchy, and well modded. Seems like it's got a chance.

Played against Holo, 2SF, 2FO list. I was running three fangs and Krassis with outmaneuver and ion cannon.

Holo came on the flank. Now here is why the TIE/Ba will be good. Ignore the cheap 50-ish pt fighter, and it just gets full mods into you. Go for it, and you have around 140-150pts of the rest of the list coming for you, and the TIE/Ba is double repo, even though it has to roll first (good players will adjust positioning for this, just as they did for Nantex arc, etc.). Holo has Proud Tradition (which is basically glued to him). He shot krassis, 5k'd and shot krassis again and passed off stress to an FO, then two slooped and shot krassis and passed off stress again. UGH. He was just constantly kturning and slooping and getting shots. So annoying Hard to pin him down when EVERY move is an option for him EVERY round.

Holo is good. I have spoken

@wurms Holo has impressed me the most so far. Vonreg is too dependent on moving last.

@Stagsquad13 ember is definitely the forgotten pilot. The text is a bit much. Which is why people have gravitated towards the other pilots. I don't have any insight to share.

2 hours ago, reqent said:

Vonreg is too dependent on moving last.

Also just realized that System-phase repositioning is great at avoiding his pilot ability:

- TIE Phantoms

- Cloaking Device

- Virago

- BB-8 (pilot)

- Cad Bane (crew)

Should all have a perfectly trivial time getting out of his bullseye before I6. Interesting in that it makes his high-I actually worse for him.

3 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Also just realized that System-phase repositioning is great at avoiding his pilot ability:

- TIE Phantoms

- Cloaking Device

- Virago

- BB-8 (pilot)

- Cad Bane (crew)

Should all have a perfectly trivial time getting out of his bullseye before I6. Interesting in that it makes his high-I actually worse for him.

I will be trying out Vonreg for his Int. If his ability procs then yay for me, I don’t expect it to, unless it’s swarms.

4 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

I will be trying out Vonreg for his Int. If his ability procs then yay for me, I don’t expect it to, unless it’s swarms.

Same mindset as flying Kylo: take for the high initiative (and Force for Kylo) not the pilot ability.

22 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

Same mindset as flying Kylo: take for the high initiative (and Force for Kylo) not the pilot ability.

I think it’s a bit disappointing Vonregs ability. It’s easily countered and can mean nothing as an ability.
The only upside I can see is that it will be costed as such (hopefully).

21 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

I think it’s a bit disappointing Vonregs ability. It’s easily countered and can mean nothing as an ability.
The only upside I can see is that it will be costed as such (hopefully).

By performing a blue maneuver? There are so many ships with limited blues or that don't want to be performing them in a certain turn (needing a turn-around, as an example.) Vonreg's ability seems to be balanced nicely, isn't crazy overpowered certainly, but rewards good flying and forces the opponent to make decisions - which is almost always a good thing, eventually. If I can coax my opponent to disengage with a blue instead of turning around and getting that gun back on target, I'm probably pretty darn happy.

32 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

I think it’s a bit disappointing Vonregs ability. It’s easily countered and can mean nothing as an ability.
The only upside I can see is that it will be costed as such (hopefully).

I first misread Vonreg's ability as activating at the beginning of the Engagement phase, which would have been much better, but probably OP.

13 hours ago, wurms said:

Played against Holo, 2SF, 2FO list. I was running three fangs and Krassis with outmaneuver and ion cannon.

Holo came on the flank. Now here is why the TIE/Ba will be good. Ignore the cheap 50-ish pt fighter, and it just gets full mods into you. Go for it, and you have around 140-150pts of the rest of the list coming for you, and the TIE/Ba is double repo, even though it has to roll first (good players will adjust positioning for this, just as they did for Nantex arc, etc.). Holo has Proud Tradition (which is basically glued to him). He shot krassis, 5k'd and shot krassis again and passed off stress to an FO, then two slooped and shot krassis and passed off stress again. UGH. He was just constantly kturning and slooping and getting shots. So annoying Hard to pin him down when EVERY move is an option for him EVERY round.

Holo is good. I have spoken

What did the list look like? I built this earlier and it seems not terrible...drop TN-3465 to Rivas and you get Scorch naked instead of Muse. No bid but...eh.

"Holo" (54)
Proud Tradition (2)

Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 2

Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)
Special Forces Gunner (10)

Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 3

Zeta Squadron Survivor (32)
Special Forces Gunner (10)

Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 3

TN-3465 (28)
Ship total: 28 Half Points: 14 Threshold: 2

"Muse" (30)
Proud Tradition (2)

Ship total: 32 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 2


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v8ZsZ200Z382X319WWWY259XWW182WWY259XWW182WWY261XWY235X319WW&sn=Holo%2BOSE%2BTN&obs=

30 minutes ago, dsul413 said:

By performing a blue maneuver? There are so many ships with limited blues or that don't want to be performing them in a certain turn (needing a turn-around, as an example.) Vonreg's ability seems to be balanced nicely, isn't crazy overpowered certainly, but rewards good flying and forces the opponent to make decisions - which is almost always a good thing, eventually. If I can coax my opponent to disengage with a blue instead of turning around and getting that gun back on target, I'm probably pretty darn happy.

I didn’t suggest anything you have alluded to. It’s not hard to guesstimate which ship could be in Vonregs bullseye, which has strategic ramifications in itself, but to dial a blue to be safe. I said it was easy to counter, only way you can stop other Int 6 beasts like Fenn and Wedge is not to be shot at.

1 minute ago, Archangelspiv said:

I didn’t suggest anything you have alluded to. It’s not hard to guesstimate which ship could be in Vonregs bullseye, which has strategic ramifications in itself, but to dial a blue to be safe. I said it was easy to counter, only way you can stop other Int 6 beasts like Fenn and Wedge is not to be shot at.

That's exactly what I said though - not every ship is going to want to dial that blue in to stay safe, so you're forcing decisions on the opponent. That's my only point really. It's a situational ability for sure. I'm happy they didn't give him an overpowered ability on an otherwise solid chassis.

5 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

I said it was easy to counter, only way you can stop other Int 6 beasts like Fenn and Wedge is not to be shot at.

Gee, I wonder if that's part of the reason why Vonreg is only 2 points more than Wedge, and 11 cheaper than Fenn, despite having arguably the best ship of the three?

1 hour ago, dsul413 said:

What did the list look like?

Holo with Proud Tradition

LeHuse with SF Gunner

Backdraft with Adv Optics

Rivas

Epsilon Cadet

11 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Also just realized that System-phase repositioning is great at avoiding his pilot ability:

- TIE Phantoms

- Cloaking Device

- Virago

- BB-8 (pilot)

- Cad Bane (crew)

Should all have a perfectly trivial time getting out of his bullseye before I6. Interesting in that it makes his high-I actually worse for him.

You can add Moff Jerjerod (crew) to that list.

Interestingly The Red Baron also limits the reposition options for these ships as they do not want to move into his bullseye - ah the mind games - this is mechanic is great

11 hours ago, dsul413 said:

What did the list look like? I built this earlier and it seems not terrible...drop TN-3465 to Rivas and you get Scorch naked instead of Muse. No bid but...eh.

Muse with proud tradition is ridiculous. I think muse is better filler than scorch because she is less predictable.