When I roll initative, do I convert the dice to the stance dice for whatever stance I am in or do I just use the blue stat dice?

I use the blue dice for initative and stance for action.

I guess the GM can let a player convert some of their stat dice into stance dice when his action that triggered the initiative check was explicitly made toward one of the stance.

For example, if a band of brigands asks the party to pay some "right of passage tax" or else they kill them, than the party try to negotiate something, then suddently, the bored trollslayer, seeing this isn't going anywhere, dashes up front, axe raised. Clearly, he's doing is initiative recklessly. I would give that player possibility to set his stance some points into reckless, making him do his initiative with some reckless dice.

Another thing, as per the rules, under story mode one's can set his stance any way he likes. So if the player sets his stance as per the story then an initiative comes under the same scene, I guess he'll still be in that stance for the initiative check.

Silverwave said:

Hmm, where did you find that? As far as I know that is not how it works. You're always considered to be in neutral stance during story mode unless your GM thinks otherwise. Sure, a nice GM will probably allow some stance dice if you roleplay it well (as your Troll slayer example above) but the default is neutral in story mode.

gruntl said:

Sorry, yeah you're right. That's what I meant, but really didn't explained well.

Per the FAQ: "Unless a PC has already adopted a stance narratively, or has triggered
encounter mode by escalating the action and requiring an
initiative check (in which case, as he acts, he’s had the opportunity
to adjust his stance during the PC’s Beginning of Turn Phase), most
PCs will perform their initiative check in a neutral stance.
NPCs are always considered to be in the default stance indicated in
their stat block, and convert characteristic dice into stance dice as
with any other check they perform.
If the GM agrees, any player may choose to convert one of their
characteristic dice into a stance die for initiative checks, based on
their PC’s dominant stance. See WFRP p. 31 for more information
on dominant stance."

It's up to the GM to determine what constitutes adopting a stance narratively means and just how many stance dice that equates to. For simplicity's sake, we just allow a max of one stance die (when appropriate) as per the last paragraph above since we don't believe the intent of the rules is to allow a player to narratively justify always beginning encounters at their max preferred stance.

Having said that, it is also worth pointing out that during a Rally Step, if a player chooses the option to reroll Initiative for the party's lowest initiative token, he would use however many stance dice he currently has per his stance meter (after adjusting one step towards neutral first as dictated by Rally Step rules).

You got that completely right mac40k

At first I thought it was odd, that with most foes allready being in a stance, they tended to roll better initiative than PC in neutral stance. But then I come to realize that a GM probably only rolled 1 or 2 times for initiative per combat, while the PCs rolled for 3, 4 or even 6 initiatives per combat. Still if the monsters have more stance dices when rolling for initiative, the PCs would roll more times, and probably get at least one player to act first in the combat round anyway.

I think that is a balanced way of doing it. But If there is as many groups or different monsters as there is players in the party I tend to give them one additional stance die. And if the party have carefully planned an attack, and using a good tactic, I reward them by giving them a +1 to initiative or that they can re-roll the lowest result.

hmm, I like the combat system in 3rd edition more and more.

Good gaming

On a side note, how do most people handle boons when rolling initiative?

I'm considering having them count as successes. Way too many times has the initiative track been concentrated at zero, one and two.

You make a good point here, Necrozius.

RAW don't take boons into account. I too noticed every participants end up with mostly with the same initiative (between 0 to 2 or 3). It's so true that our group deceided to just drop initiative, making one entire group act then the opposing group goes for his turn.

An alternative could be : one party goes first (depending the situation) and choose 2 characters whitin the group to act. Then the next group turn comes and 2 characters of that group act. Then it's back at the first group and 2 other characters act (if it's a 3 player group, well only one will act), and so on until everyone acted. Those with higher agility or with bonus to initiative (wood elf) could be the first characters of the group to act, per default.

Making boons count as successes can possibily fix that problem... not sure though if it wouldn't end up only moving the same range a bit higher (instead of everyone at 0-2, everyone will go at 2-4 ?).

Necrozius said:

I too have noticed that the initiative track is often really compressed, and I don't care for it. I had a fight a few weeks ago with 6 PCs vs a bunch of beastmen. 9 initiative rolls, and they came out as roughly 4, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0. It was kind of annoying, like the system's not quite living up to it's full potential there. Probably gets a little better with higher Rank PCs, but not much.

Your idea of just converting boons to successes would probably solve that, but it may (as Silverwave suggested) just move the same tight range further up the chart. It would certainly be preferable to just the default "2 boons removes a fatigue or stress" rule, since most of the time PCs won't have any Fatigue before they roll initiative.

What I have done a few times is that if they have 1 or more boons they are well positioned at the start of the fight, and get a bonus Fortune die on their first action. 1 or more banes results in being briefly exposed, poorly positioned, or caught flat footed - so either a misfortune die on their first action, or a fortune die on anyone attacking them. It varies a bit on the situation, and I don't think I've been consistent. It's a little clunky and requires some memory, too, so it's not perfect. (If you've got enough white and black dice, you can set them next to the cardboard standups as reminders.)

r_b_bergstrom said:

I like this idea alot.

I've also think of another alternative to initiative check that involve less bookeeping. All players make initiative checks, the GM only makes 1 initiative check for all the opponents (and maybe another for other NPCs that aren't ennemies, like neutral or allies) using [the best/the worst, not sure which one] initiative check of one of the NPC of the group. Each player that have better ini than the opposing group act, then all the ennemies act, then the remaining players.

good ideas flowing around here.

and if you get several PC initiative tokens and monster tokens on the same initiative number (like 1), you can always rule that one PC get to act first than one monster group or beast, then a PC again, instead of simply letting all the PCs act before the monsters get to act on the same initiative score.

Good gaming

Yet another idea. The GM could enterily skip the dice throwing if making character's initiative opposed check.