I'v asked this on reddit and in direct messages before, but I'm trying out the Ataru Striker for the first time, and I wanted to get a general consensus:

1. Is there any real reason why someone with a fully kitted out Ataru Striker tree would want to take a second offense-oriented saber spec, like Juyo or the Executioner tree, or would that be overkill? For reference, I'm RP'ing a character who is something like Rurouni Kenshin, who had a really bloody past surviving Order 66, and now wants to prevent the loss of life as much as possible, but has to work to keep that killer instinct locked away, especially when presented with situations where he's the only one who can stand in the face of true villainy. The conflict talents in the Juyo/Executioner trees convey some of that.

2. Which of the three specs that give two FR seem 'best' for Ataru? I'm leaning Seer for a third rank of Dodge, 'The Force is My Ally' talent allowing me to activate Sense as maneuver, and the two ranks apiece of Toughened and Grit. Sage has little appeal to me, and Hermit isn't super-interesting since I'm not really looking to tame beasties.

Well you might have a crit that makes your agility less and thus you might want a spec that operated off a different stat.

YOu might want to be able to use something like Draw closer...

Jedi Knight, Sentry, Warden Are all good choices for additional combat power.

You need a higher force rating...

Ataru runs off Hawkbat swoop giving extra advantages to fuel SaberSwarm. Both powers require you to have a 3+ Force Rating to work well.

For a kenshin type character you want to be a Warrior for Unmatched Ferocity, a Jedi for Peerless Interception or a Guardian for the duel signature ability.

Honestly I'm experimenting with Padawan, Ataru, Knight and Master build right now with Peerless Interception.

4 minutes ago, Decorus said:

Jedi Knight, Sentry, Warden Are all good choices for additional combat power.

You need a higher force rating...

Ataru runs off Hawkbat swoop giving extra advantages to fuel SaberSwarm. Both powers require you to have a 3+ Force Rating to work well.

For a kenshin type character you want to be a Warrior for Unmatched Ferocity, a Jedi for Peerless Interception or a Guardian for the duel signature ability.

Honestly I'm experimenting with Padawan, Ataru, Knight and Master build right now with Peerless Interception.

That's a lot of xp...

But I am already strongly considering Knight, Armorer and Warden, so that's nice to know I'm on the right track.

6 hours ago, StriderZessei said:

I'v asked this on reddit and in direct messages before, but I'm trying out the Ataru Striker for the first time, and I wanted to get a general consensus:

1. Is there any real reason why someone with a fully kitted out Ataru Striker tree would want to take a second offense-oriented saber spec, like Juyo or the Executioner tree, or would that be overkill? For reference, I'm RP'ing a character who is something like Rurouni Kenshin, who had a really bloody past surviving Order 66, and now wants to prevent the loss of life as much as possible, but has to work to keep that killer instinct locked away, especially when presented with situations where he's the only one who can stand in the face of true villainy. The conflict talents in the Juyo/Executioner trees convey some of that.

2. Which of the three specs that give two FR seem 'best' for Ataru? I'm leaning Seer for a third rank of Dodge, 'The Force is My Ally' talent allowing me to activate Sense as maneuver, and the two ranks apiece of Toughened and Grit. Sage has little appeal to me, and Hermit isn't super-interesting since I'm not really looking to tame beasties.

Striker is likely the most powerful Lightsaber tree in my humble opinion, at least in terms of raw power in my humble opinion. Short of diving into Juyo or taking something else which has a destiny point talent, or taking deadly accuracy from an AOR/Edge tree, there isn't a whole lot that can be done to boost it's output. Truth be told there isn't too much one can offer, though the main reason I imagine is utility. Neman has draw closer (which adds on success, meaning you hit harder once and pull someone toward) and a force rating, and some good defensive talents. Mura means you can never be separated from your weapon and with a decent presence a shed load of strain recovery (which it's main weakness) Juyo allows one to hit harder and eventually either become an absolute crit machine or capable of destiny pool manipulation and Shi-Cho just has some decent strong abilities such as rerolls and being able to hit multiple opponents, which is something Ataru doesn't usually do.

The primary benefit though is more parry and reflect. In a lightsaber Duel the more you have, the harder it is to affect you. Parry is much more important as ranged attacks are entirely subject to soak and melee weapons are generally more dangerous when it comes to crits. Then again, there are things like Arbiter (which plays strongly into the Jedi role of a mediator while offering some neat tricks. Turning any non-cortosis weapon to swiss cheese? Dat's strong by breaking their weapons, very Kenshin) Steel Hand can offer greatly enhanced mobility (improved dodge) and a less lethal way to fight, and a few options that have been mentioned before. Even Collosis can be a interesting one if you want to turn your indestructability and power through anger up to the next level. Warden is one of those that I really love, but never found an opportunity to play.

2. Out of those two? Depends. Seer offers better stats, sage offers smarts and social skills, depends which one you are preferring to rock personally.

I've got an Ataru striker in my current game and I think it's his only combat spec (aside from Ace) and it's devastating (we are approaching 2000XP so keep that in mind). 2 sessions ago he finally got Force Rating 5 and Lightsaber 5. Now with Padawan and Knight available (and Peerless Interception) there's no need for another combat spec.

Honestly, the answer boils down to "it depends." Personally, I find stacking multiple LS Form specs to be overkill, with perhaps adding Niman Disciple being the one exception, though even that is now iffy if your GM allows the Jedi career and associated specs into their game.

Ataru Striker on its own is the epitome of a glass cannon, as once you get Hawk Bat Swoop and Saber Swarm, you're going to be hitting incredibly hard, with those talents only offset by having a Force Rating of 1. However, the spec's glaring flaw is that it has no ranks in Toughened or Grit, and your in-spec defenses (Dodge, Parry, and Reflect) are all tied to your strain threshold, which for most species is going to be fairly low (somewhere in the 12 to 14 range) for how often you'll need it, and more often than not you'll be spending your advantages to recover strain.

Delving into a different LS Form spec that offers a different Form Technique talent does help for those instances where you suffer a critical injury that impacts your Agility, but that's an edge case and may not be worth the XP in the long run. That said, Niman Disciple does offer talents that help shore up Ataru Striker's weaker points, though it's got one of the most expensive paths to a Force Rating increase in the game.

I've found that Force Emergent from AoR can make a nice compliment to Ataru Striker, as it helps shore up the spec's weak points, boosting up wound and strain thresholds as well as a fairly inexpensive Force Rating talent to acquire, and you're not paying out-of-career spec costs plus a talent that lets you add the quite useful Discipline skill to your list of career skills.

What also makes an interesting combination that I've not had a chance to actually play yet is Jedi/Padawan/Ataru Striker. That route offers what I feel is a far better selection of base career skills on top of having what is probably the least expensive route to a Force Rating talent, and with two ranks of Toughened and even more ranks of Parry and Reflect helps alleviate the "glass" portion of Ataru Striker's "glass cannon" nature.

1 hour ago, Jedi Ronin said:

I've got an Ataru striker in my current game and I think it's his only combat spec (aside from Ace) and it's devastating (we are approaching 2000XP so keep that in mind). 2 sessions ago he finally got Force Rating 5 and Lightsaber 5. Now with Padawan and Knight available (and Peerless Interception) there's no need for another combat spec.

Interesting. My current build path (we're playing a game where xp flows in pretty freely) is Ataru, Warden, Armorer, FS Exile, Seer, but the Jedi Career's Peerless Interception might really alleviate Ataru's glass cannon nature.

9 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Honestly, the answer boils down to "it depends." Personally, I find stacking multiple LS Form specs to be overkill, with perhaps adding Niman Disciple being the one exception, though even that is now iffy if your GM allows the Jedi career and associated specs into their game.

Ataru Striker on its own is the epitome of a glass cannon, as once you get Hawk Bat Swoop and Saber Swarm, you're going to be hitting incredibly hard, with those talents only offset by having a Force Rating of 1. However, the spec's glaring flaw is that it has no ranks in Toughened or Grit, and your in-spec defenses (Dodge, Parry, and Reflect) are all tied to your strain threshold, which for most species is going to be fairly low (somewhere in the 12 to 14 range) for how often you'll need it, and more often than not you'll be spending your advantages to recover strain.

Delving into a different LS Form spec that offers a different Form Technique talent does help for those instances where you suffer a critical injury that impacts your Agility, but that's an edge case and may not be worth the XP in the long run. That said, Niman Disciple does offer talents that help shore up Ataru Striker's weaker points, though it's got one of the most expensive paths to a Force Rating increase in the game.

I've found that Force Emergent from AoR can make a nice compliment to Ataru Striker, as it helps shore up the spec's weak points, boosting up wound and strain thresholds as well as a fairly inexpensive Force Rating talent to acquire, and you're not paying out-of-career spec costs plus a talent that lets you add the quite useful Discipline skill to your list of career skills.

What also makes an interesting combination that I've not had a chance to actually play yet is Jedi/Padawan/Ataru Striker. That route offers what I feel is a far better selection of base career skills on top of having what is probably the least expensive route to a Force Rating talent, and with two ranks of Toughened and even more ranks of Parry and Reflect helps alleviate the "glass" portion of Ataru Striker's "glass cannon" nature.

I went Jedi Padawan Ataru Knight. would add Niman after doing master. This I think would give you advantages.

I would say one combat spec should be enough but parry and reflect are so key to being an effective saber-monkey that you generally need two specs to get them to that smokin' 4-5 level. I wish that weren't so because to be an effective force user you really need what non-combat specs offer and powers, both of which require a lot of points.

17 minutes ago, Vondy said:

I would say one combat spec should be enough but parry and reflect are so key to being an effective saber-monkey that you generally need two specs to get them to that smokin' 4-5 level. I wish that weren't so because to be an effective force user you really need what non-combat specs offer and powers, both of which require a lot of points.

that is where the padawan and knight specs shine

3 hours ago, Daeglan said:

that is where the padawan and knight specs shine

So it sounds like most folks really like the Jedi career with a saber spec mixed in. Can't say I'm against it, although I'd rather skip over Padawan by buying a second FR and go straight to Knight.

5 hours ago, LordBritish said:

Mura means you can never be separated from your weapon and with a decent presence a shed load of strain recovery (which it's main weakness)

Mura? You mean Makashi?

30 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

So it sounds like most folks really like the Jedi career with a saber spec mixed in. Can't say I'm against it, although I'd rather skip over Padawan by buying a second FR and go straight to Knight.

Padawan has awesome stuff in it.

24 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Padawan has awesome stuff in it.

Nothing really jumps out at me. What do you like about it?

Center of being is an awesome life saver. The force is my ally is an awesome ability. Powerful ally is awesome. Bound together is awesome for groups. Supreme center of being is awesome..

38 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Center of being is an awesome life saver. The force is my ally is an awesome ability. Powerful ally is awesome. Bound together is awesome for groups. Supreme center of being is awesome..

Cool, but none of those is in the Padawan tree. 😅

18 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

Cool, but none of those is in the Padawan tree. 😅

oops i was looking at the wrong tree.
Something to prove, Valuable facts, a couple ranks of parry and reflect. a couple gritd and tougheneds, adaptable, beginners luck.

3 hours ago, StriderZessei said:

So it sounds like most folks really like the Jedi career with a saber spec mixed in. Can't say I'm against it, although I'd rather skip over Padawan by buying a second FR and go straight to Knight.

Padawan + Jedi Knight and Jedi Knight + Niman Disciple are both strong combos (IMO).

On 1/23/2020 at 3:49 PM, Vondy said:

Padawan + Jedi Knight and Jedi Knight + Niman Disciple are both strong combos (IMO).

Seems like it! I think I've finally picked out my 2000+xp path, thanks to everyone here:

Vanilla Human, 120xp with Morality bonus to get 3s in brawn, agility, intellect, and willpower.

Taking the slow Padawan path, even though not all the talents fit my vision for the character, but I need vigilance as a career skill. GM is awarding one free tree, so I'm taking the Ataru tree. Dipping into FS Emergent for the great utility and health-boosting talents, Knight for more Parry/Reflect, Balance, etc.

After that, I'll be taking Armorer for crafting stuff, Warden for the thematic elements of Baleful Gaze and the like, and rounding things out with Master (probably. Not sure if it fits my samurai theme.)

Focusing on the Sense, Enhance, and Endure Force Powers primarily. Zessei Highwind doesn't use the Force to effect his adversaries, typically.

Thanks again, everyone! Now maybe I can finally get some sleep (so badly wish I was joking there, lol.)

15 hours ago, StriderZessei said:

Mura? You mean Makashi?

Yeah, that one.

I don't tend to remember the names. So I just name it the mantis form and pose like I'm looking to bite the head off a potential mate. XD

9 hours ago, StriderZessei said:

when Mandalorian gives three free ranks in Lightsaber with the starting career/spec.)

Unless you are going with Heroic/Knight-Level for the start, that isn't actually an option. Capped at two for vanilla character generation. (capped at 3 for Heroic/Knight-Level)

1 hour ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Unless you are going with Heroic/Knight-Level for the start, that isn't actually an option. Capped at two for vanilla character generation. (capped at 3 for Heroic/Knight-Level)

Yup, we're doing Knight play and then some.

On 1/22/2020 at 10:07 PM, StriderZessei said:

I'v asked this on reddit and in direct messages before, but I'm trying out the Ataru Striker for the first time, and I wanted to get a general consensus:

1. Is there any real reason why someone with a fully kitted out Ataru Striker tree would want to take a second offense-oriented saber spec, like Juyo or the Executioner tree, or would that be overkill? For reference, I'm RP'ing a character who is something like Rurouni Kenshin, who had a really bloody past surviving Order 66, and now wants to prevent the loss of life as much as possible, but has to work to keep that killer instinct locked away, especially when presented with situations where he's the only one who can stand in the face of true villainy. The conflict talents in the Juyo/Executioner trees convey some of that.

2. Which of the three specs that give two FR seem 'best' for Ataru? I'm leaning Seer for a third rank of Dodge, 'The Force is My Ally' talent allowing me to activate Sense as maneuver, and the two ranks apiece of Toughened and Grit. Sage has little appeal to me, and Hermit isn't super-interesting since I'm not really looking to tame beasties.

You might want to ask your GM if you could use the quick path to power rule in collapse of the republic to start as a jedi:knight (rise of the separatists) and then cross spec into ataru.

Jedi knight (rots) and general (cotr) have a fr 2 prerequisite. The quick path to power rule let's you spend 30 starting xp (the stuff you can use to boost attributes during character creation) to boost your fr to 2, so you can start in knight or general. General has a conflict talent. Both knight and general have an fr and dedication talent so you can have fr3 after filling out the tree and compared to sage seer etc. the dedication makes up for the used up 30 starting xp, only you can stack it on an already boosted stat

The jedi career has only 1 signature ability, it's called peerless interception, basically it dials parry & reflect plus their improved versions up to 11, which would let you stand in the face of true villainy. It's the only true counter to saberswarm and unmatched ferocity.

As another possibility you might want to consider starting in steelhand adept, (fr dedication parry unarmed parry, access to unmatched ferocity, plus precision strike and improved precision strike which fits the new kenshin doesn't kill theme) then cross specing into niman disciple (draw closer helps you pull off unmatched ferocity) . Unmatched ferocity has the feeling of dark killer instinct busting loose getting conflict for using it, you can use it two encounters per session so twice per session you can match the damage output of a ataru striker, but it's a little more flexible in that you can use it against multiple opponents. Moreover niman-disciple fits the new kenshin model pretty well.

My character Kelitah Windrider (kotor era ancestor of Elias Windrider) has the steelhand adept build. 5 willpower, 3's in brawn agility and cunning. Put the 3 in cunning instead of intellect for rp reasons (intellect is more useful from a stats perspective) I had a lot of quotes I got from the old kungfu show and fortune cookies that I would read from. It was a hoot. My character had a repulsor fist so the 2 ranks of defensive training, combined with unarmed parry and 4 ranks of parry he could humor other people attacking him for a few rounds before drawing a saber.

My third spec would have been ascetic which also fits both the new and old kenshin.

Seriously warrior:steelhand adept/niman disciple is the best fit in the game for your concept

For the reverse bladed katana you might want to consider a dragite gem plus damping emitter.

You also might want to consider padawan survivor from dawn of rebellion for the third spec.