Hi there,

I have a PC who has tanked himself up over several years to have a soak of 9 and wears cortosis armour. So hurting him is difficult to the point of he getting bored in combat (and he can't do much more)

So I wondered about blast and burn and so on and how I can challenge him.

Now blast and burn happen when triggered (2 Adv) then its the damage (weapon for burn and stated for blast) plus successes.... It seems a little weak. A blast doing 4 (I dunno just made that up) plus one successful would ping off him and a burn doing 9 for 3 rounds would have him walking around on fire with zero consequences.

Am I missing anything?

Scathing Tirade.

Weapons with the Stun quality, which is different from the Stun setting. If a weapon has Stun 3, for 2 Advantages the target suffers 3 Strain which bypasses Soak.

Use Concussive, Disorient, Ensnare, and Knockdown qualities. And remember you only need to bypass Soak to deal a critical hit. So the PC could only take one or two wounds at a time, but start stacking those crits and they'll get worried.

Breach - Give the enemy a lightsaber, or Thermal Detonator. Also using vehicle scale weaponry gets ugly quickly (but that would be overkill IMHO - it's an option though).

1 hour ago, rogue_09 said:

Scathing Tirade.

Weapons with the Stun quality, which is different from the Stun setting. If a weapon has Stun 3, for 2 Advantages the target suffers 3 Strain which bypasses Soak.

Use Concussive, Disorient, Ensnare, and Knockdown qualities. And remember you only need to bypass Soak to deal a critical hit. So the PC could only take one or two wounds at a time, but start stacking those crits and they'll get worried.

Ohh your post isn't scathing at all was unaware stun bypassed soak, that I like! Used knockdown before and fun fact, the pc was limping aroind with 9 criticals at one stage. That was tense.

As for breach, cortosis still resists so ....

4 hours ago, mwknowles said:

As for breach, cortosis still resists so ....

Sorry, missed it

3 minutes ago, Rimsen said:

Sorry, missed it

Dude no worries.... So this PC is difficult to challenge but I can do it. Thoight about using Burn...against his gear!

Don't focus on dropping his wounds, start critting him. It's kind of a tactic you should only really do if you are fine with the possibility of perma damaging a PC, but an adversary who is willing to really harm a PC despite his projection would be a dangerous adversary.

If he can't do anything aside from fight? Well, now is the time to diversify out. He literally can't get much better at fighting if he wanted to and it would only be to his detriment. We've had a similar issue in our group where soaks of 7 and upwards have become pretty common; one of us has soak 11 and has a talisman of the iron fist, though that is a easier problem to solve as a T/D could potentially remove it from their person for a round, with a double allowing someone else to ****** it and immediately benefit from it's effects (if force sensitive.). Needless to say, providing a challenge to some of these characters is virtually impossible as whatever would pose a serious threat to them, would absolutely crush any character not optimised for that kind of nuclear warfare so after our current season, we are literally doing a soft reset to bring all the character's back in line because our GM just isn't capable or willing to escalate the game artificially to a point just to challenge us. Then again, we've been at it for more or less 5 years and the War with the empire has just ended; we are reaching a natural point to move on to another story.

Diversity of a skill set is essential as most character's in action movies usually have occupations and skills that aren't directly related to fighting. The Mandolorian is a skilled tracker and a perceptive character who also has to negosate, despite being a character that is 70% based around breaking skulls and taking names there is more to him then mere brute strength, so encourage the player to diversify out, the fact that he can't do much more then fight is solely his fault, he could've sought out other skills at any opportunity, but spent it all on cracking skulls. Only droids are so incapable at tasks outside their wheelhouse,

Otherwise change the conditions of engagement; make combat not a matter of victory vs defeat because at this point victory is all but granted, but whether the party can make it to X location in time. Have bomb plots, assassinations, if these characters are practically notorious target them in a setting where they might not be bringing heir A-game, heck have someone steal their stuff. Have entire encounters where the group can lose despite winning all the battles. Alternatively splitting the party can achieve that same effect where individual strengths of both primary and secondary nature can come up rather then having the best player for the job all the time. Least that is all I could come up with quickly.

The Stun quality (not Stun Damage/Setting) has the unnatural ability to totally bypass armor. For some exotic weapons, this makes sense, but for others (e.g., the pommel cap) it is just a sign of idiocy on the part of the designers.

There are heavier weapons out there. I don't know what the situation of your campaign is, but if someone shows up with a T-7, they might not do a ton of damage past soak (minimum of 4 per hit), but if they score the two Advantage needed to crit, then they add 60 to the roll.

If his enemies know that he can take a lot of damage, then they'll pack heavier weapons when coming after him.

Verpine Shatter Guns (Rifle and Heavy Rifle in particular) also have high damage. Trick them out with a Telescopic Multi-Optic Laser Sight and Superior Weapon Customization, (and then ensure that the PCs can't get their hands on them) and go wild.

As for story advice, maybe the way to hurt the character isn't to damage him in combat. Maybe hurt the character emotionally through the story rather than through game mechanics.

As for out-of-game advise, I prefer to have a story outlined with a defined (or semi-defined) end point, rather than just going and going and going until it feels like it's time to move on. Because of that, my PCs probably won't get above 500 earned XP most of the time, somewhat limiting how broken certain stats can get. (That said, I do have a Mando Marauder/Death Watch Commando who will probably get to 10 Soak with Cortosis before too much longer)

Give him the option to remake a character that would be more fun for him. Or adjust the character he has to lower his soak to make it more exciting. If he is bored with it then give him an option to fix it.

If he doesn't want to fix it then weapons that attack strain are good. Or use the bad guy tactic of his friends against him. Go after one other player and then once they are down the bad guys threaten to kill them if he doesn't surrender.

Depending on the bad guys you can use force powers to restrain him or move him out of combat. As well has harm by passes soak, Bind inflicts strain, influence can inflict strain. Or misdirect to make his allies look like his enemies.

But definitely talk to him first and see how he feels about it and if he is willing to change for the fun of the game. Problem with getting bigger guns is they may get used against squishier people.

Stick him in a bunch of fancy hi falutin situations where he has to take off the armour and be captain tight pants for a while. Then whe his guard's down, have it all kick off.

Don't do anything. Your player wanted to be so tanky he could never be damaged then he must deal with the consequences of his choice.

Had something similar in my Clone Wars campaign. Our tank was a pseudo-Blaze trooper (using the Hazard trooper armor as a template) and got up to 11-12 soak between all his talent trees, mostly neglecting his skills. While he didn't have cortosis, he was still pretty hard to damage with rank and file weapons.

That being said, thanks like this are usually pretty big targets. They're noticeable and always a threat. Even if the rank and file may not damage him with a single shot, focus fire always has it advantages. Anti Vehicle weaponry is always a possibility as well, and missile tubes hurt even the tankiest characters. I would also suggest the T-7 Ion Disruptor, emplaced guns, concussion rifles, and placed explosives.

Being a Blaze trooper, my player had forgone a small flame projector and had a larger one with a huge fuel canister on his back. One bounty hunter got clever, disguised himself as a clone (being a clawdite, it was fairly easy) and managed to place two magnetic proton grenades on the trooper's back after failing a series of rolls. The blast ended up taking one of his arms and damaged his Intellect by 1 permanently.

Tanks may be strong, but they are not invulnerable. Make sure to regularly remind them of that, because while a flaming cortosis covered being is fun and intimidating, they are still mortal.

Oh, and don't forget traps. The same tank nearly died because (again, failing several checks) he tripped a baradium charge set as a trap by that same bounty hunter. **** near had a mountain come down on top of him too.

Slightly unpopular opinion? Take the above suggestions and use them, but use them sparingly.

This player and character have invested heavily in being a tank. While you absolutely want to still challenge him, there are also times that you should feel free to let the small arms fire bounce off him. His teammates aren't going to be as invulnerable, so it isn't like he has nothing at all to worry about, but he also deserves to have some moments where his investment pays off.

Slight tangent - I am running a Pathfinder game with an Undead Hunter Paladin who has heavily invested in being able to use her chosen weapon and Smite Undead. As a result, at 10th level, she's able to routinely crank out hits of 2d10+72 damage on evil undead. Which, yeah, means she tears through them when she fights them. My players almost apologetically look to me at that point like "Sorry we're killing your monsters so easily." But it's what she was built to do. She deserves her moment to shine.

This character should absolutely get his moments where he walks through a blaze of blaster fire with minimal effect.

5 hours ago, AEinhorn said:

This player and character have invested heavily in being a tank. While you absolutely want to still challenge him, there are also times that you should feel free to let the small arms fire bounce off him. His teammates aren't going to be as invulnerable, so it isn't like he has nothing at all to worry about, but he also deserves to have some moments where his investment pays off.

But it's what she was built to do. She deserves her moment to shine.

This character should absolutely get his moments where he walks through a blaze of blaster fire with minimal effect.

Double-Like on this one! Let him play what he wants to pay. No need to 'nerf' him. You're not missing anything. He shines when it is his time to shine. Accentuate it! Build it up! This is part of the game. Have fun.

A key RP'ing thing is to NOT let it all come down to beating a bunch of bad guys as the ending (only once and a while). Taking out eight minions in a fight without a scratch is his job. After he does that, the others get to shine. Still, minions of 4 with rifle will shoot YYYG. They'll get some crits in there, for sure. He's not THAT bad-***.

Another RP thing is to target the others in the group, when needed. Play off the fact that HE can walk through fire unscathed, but his allies can't. It can add some strategy. Something like he stays behind to buy the others time. That way he is doing something important to the group while being 'bored' with the combat. Combat isn't the focus, buying time for the group is!!!

Rogue09 is right, too " Use Concussive, Disorient, Ensnare, and Knockdown qualities." I enjoyed throwing 'bolas' at a group recently. Had one immobilized on the Triumph and another entangled with Adv's.

20 hours ago, DurosSpacer said:

Double-Like on this one! Let him play what he wants to pay. No need to 'nerf' him. You're not missing anything. He shines when it is his time to shine. Accentuate it! Build it up! This is part of the game. Have fun.

A key RP'ing thing is to NOT let it all come down to beating a bunch of bad guys as the ending (only once and a while). Taking out eight minions in a fight without a scratch is his job. After he does that, the others get to shine. Still, minions of 4 with rifle will shoot YYYG. They'll get some crits in there, for sure. He's not THAT bad-***.

Another RP thing is to target the others in the group, when needed. Play off the fact that HE can walk through fire unscathed, but his allies can't. It can add some strategy. Something like he stays behind to buy the others time. That way he is doing something important to the group while being 'bored' with the combat. Combat isn't the focus, buying time for the group is!!!

Rogue09 is right, too " Use Concussive, Disorient, Ensnare, and Knockdown qualities." I enjoyed throwing 'bolas' at a group recently. Had one immobilized on the Triumph and another entangled with Adv's.

This isn't a me v him situation. The group is finding his character spoils combats so I'm not looking to nerf him as you put it. Just up his level of enjoyment.

I am aware I can put him in any situations where he can't tank around in heavy armour - "off you go infiltrate this" or "sneak here" or "underwater\zero atmosphere you go" are all options. Also note (the Blaze story above - very amusing) he can hit a barn door at 3m.... Low ranks in shooting, high in melee - tried to grapple a light sabre wielding nemesis. So hes just an aggro drawer. Hes going to go on missions which force his out of his tough armour and involve other skills checks (which he has no ranks in yet!) So it'll up the suspense levels.

On 1/23/2020 at 12:12 AM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

There are heavier weapons out there. I don't know what the situation of your campaign is, but if someone shows up with a T-7, they might not do a ton of damage past soak (minimum of 4 per hit), but if they score the two Advantage needed to crit, then they add 60 to the roll.

If his enemies know that he can take a lot of damage, then they'll pack heavier weapons when coming after him.

Verpine Shatter Guns (Rifle and Heavy Rifle in particular) also have high damage. Trick them out with a Telescopic Multi-Optic Laser Sight and Superior Weapon Customization, (and then ensure that the PCs can't get their hands on them) and go wild.

As for story advice, maybe the way to hurt the character isn't to damage him in combat. Maybe hurt the character emotionally through the story rather than through game mechanics.

As for out-of-game advise, I prefer to have a story outlined with a defined (or semi-defined) end point, rather than just going and going and going until it feels like it's time to move on. Because of that, my PCs probably won't get above 500 earned XP most of the time, somewhat limiting how broken certain stats can get. (That said, I do have a Mando Marauder/Death Watch Commando who will probably get to 10 Soak with Cortosis before too much longer)

Ive been playing with X-COM2 style mental trauma like effects which hamper it temporary incapacitate players if they fail a discipline or something check. The character has been covered in minion viscera enough times to leave some mental scaring.

1 minute ago, mwknowles said:

Ive been playing with X-COM2 style mental trauma like effects which hamper it temporary incapacitate players if they fail a discipline or something check. The character has been covered in minion viscera enough times to leave some mental scaring.

I love XCOM2! I probably wouldn't use that, but it is an interesting idea (though panic might be a hard mechanic to use). At one point, I was going to try to convert XCOM2 into a roleplaying game, but decided I liked this system too much.

44 minutes ago, mwknowles said:

Ive been playing with X-COM2 style mental trauma like effects which hamper it temporary incapacitate players if they fail a discipline or something check. The character has been covered in minion viscera enough times to leave some mental scaring.

****! Just the mention of it and I'm itching to reinstall, and I've not even finished Fallen Order.

Bloody love Xcom2!

15 minutes ago, Stethemessiah said:

****! Just the mention of it and I'm itching to reinstall, and I've not even finished Fallen Order.

Bloody love Xcom2!

I just finished two straight campaigns! (my first two campaigns. I picked up the entire game and all of its DLC on sale on Steam for ~30 bucks!)

On the second, I flawlessed the final mission on Commander difficulty (or whatever the third setting is called) and I didn't even use mimic beacons!

4 hours ago, mwknowles said:

This isn't a me v him situation. The group is finding his character spoils combats so I'm not looking to nerf him as you put it. Just up his level of enjoyment.

I am aware I can put him in any situations where he can't tank around in heavy armour - "off you go infiltrate this" or "sneak here" or "underwater\zero atmosphere you go" are all options. Also note (the Blaze story above - very amusing) he can hit a barn door at 3m.... Low ranks in shooting, high in melee - tried to grapple a light sabre wielding nemesis. So hes just an aggro drawer. Hes going to go on missions which force his out of his tough armour and involve other skills checks (which he has no ranks in yet!) So it'll up the suspense levels.

You can still retire the PC and make him an NPC. Make him a war hero or, achieve something extraordinary so he has new responsibilities, but occasionally helps out the PCs with his superb skills.

On 1/22/2020 at 4:32 AM, LordBritish said:

It's kind of a tactic you should only really do if you are fine with the possibility of perma damaging a PC, but an adversary who is willing to really harm a PC despite his projection would be a dangerous adversary.

A valid concern, but in the Star Wars universe characters can recover from permanent damage. Example: Luke lost a hand.

7 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I just finished two straight campaigns! (my first two campaigns. I picked up the entire game and all of its DLC on sale on Steam for ~30 bucks!)

On the second, I flawlessed the final mission on Commander difficulty (or whatever the third setting is called) and I didn't even use mimic beacons!

My last playthrough was War of the Chosen on Commander difficulty, didn't flawless it, but still went very well.

7 hours ago, Vondy said:

A valid concern, but in the Star Wars universe characters can recover from permanent damage. Example: Luke lost a hand.

True, but depending on your group even a prospectic hand can count against the maximum number of cybernetics. My character has lost an arm and sustained two crippling injuries (both on brawn) over the years and, with current modifications and even with additional slots granted by a cybernetic, has reached a point that he simply can't repair the damage anymore (one arm, and one cybernetic just to cope against one incidence of the crippled condition). His injuries have exceeded what science can do for him. Unless we talk about cloned organs, but my character is no senator. XD

4 hours ago, LordBritish said:

True, but depending on your group even a prospectic hand can count against the maximum number of cybernetics. My character has lost an arm and sustained two crippling injuries (both on brawn) over the years and, with current modifications and even with additional slots granted by a cybernetic, has reached a point that he simply can't repair the damage anymore (one arm, and one cybernetic just to cope against one incidence of the crippled condition). His injuries have exceeded what science can do for him. Unless we talk about cloned organs, but my character is no senator. XD

That's a lot of damage and more than I would ever encourage a GM to inflict on a single player character without talking with the player about how to challenge them without passing that threshold. One possible solution is the Droid Tech specification, which has talents that increase the maximum number of cybernetics. The only problem is that the character has to take the spec to make use of them. One option would be allowing a droid tech to use the talent on other characters more like the "signature vehicle" talent that riggers have. Its not a perfect solution, but it could help in crazy high crippling games.