Greetings And a hearty Here We Go Again!

For those returning for this part two, welcome back. For those unfamiliar this is the totally unintentional and completely likely sequel to another thread that you can find here:

Now that points have changed. I want to revisit my sporty little racer friends. My more elegant weapons, for a more civilized age. My cloud car precursors. My beautiful N-1. So when I'm not doping around in the glory of five X-wing joy, I'll be firmly leading the charge of the Royal Naboo Banana Force!

So after points change we got!!!: ... Not... Much...?

Per the last thread we got the break point down to six in a list, with a whopping two points leftover. So literally the best you can add is a FCS, or an R4 to one of them. Not great. But at least you can get six. Not quite the level of 6xA-wings, but forward is a good direction to go. So progress. And you bet your bum, tomorrow I'm buying my sixth, taking one for the team, and dying behind the stick of all six.

But in the future we will try the new and (slightly) improved Handmaidens, and or old tricks we previously discussed with their changes.

But this Wednesday night shall be!...:

N-1 Redux (198/200)
==================
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33)

Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33)

Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33)

Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33)

Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33)

Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33)

And then my friends, we shall begin anew. In the mean time, share what you've come up with for our little banana friends. Discuss the glory of getting to order for yourselves the beautiful silver paint scheme. And generally be excellent!

Well if there's one thing getting rid of 7Bs and V-19s has done, it's NECESSITATE the use of N1s for lower end fighters such as the N1. Thing is they're just... not... it.

But if you need low-cost torpedo boats you can do a LOT worse than these full throttle boys.

4 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

And you bet your bum, tomorrow I'm buying my sixth, taking one for the team, and dying behind the stick of all six.

Give this man a medal.

I like it.

Let me know anytime you come through Springfield Missouri and we'll catch a game.

Success! ... Kinda... Sorta! ... Ish?

Well, first off I'm mentally deficient and forgot I only owned 4 of these. Then the store only had one on the rack. But after reviewing the old thread I realized surprise! I never had run a five ship list of these yet! Whoops. So instead we did that! (Relax, 6xBananas should happen tomorrow)

So I had to scramble a list together since I hadn't really planned one. And since I never had planned one before it took a bit of mental gymnastics to figure one out. I ended up defaulting to some old classics which is when I realized that I had a small problem. The passive sensors card and the R2 Astromech card both increased in points so that kind of messed things up. Like, my old 'best' list with these guys is now illegal messed up. So Lil' Ani and the Bravo's, best jazz quartet in the core worlds, broke up the band.

So in a truly inelegant solution we made a mixed gear squad. Three with the only firepower I've been able to make work, and two filler dudes with bad Regen droids.

Odd Banana Out (200/200)
=======================
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33 + 9)
+ Passive Sensors (3)
+ Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33 + 9)
+ Passive Sensors (3)
+ Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33 + 9)
+ Passive Sensors (3)
+ Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33 + 4)
+ R5 Astromech (4)
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33 + 4)
+ R5 Astromech (4)

And it faces off against another test list. Dash+lone+Kanan and two K-wings with cluster/seismic. (Mistakes were made, we all knew it. But hey trying stuff is fun)

And it won!... Eventually. Had a hard time pinning Dash of course. Whittled him down most of the way with lucky primaries. Then finally block dog-piled him for the only torpedo all game. And at time I had halved the K's. So against my two casualties I scraped a win. Though we both knew it, he could have done like 5 things differently to get a very different game. So that was not a good study. But having 3 actual threats, and 2 skirmishers to help, REALLY helped. Also, R5 is garbage, what the Force was I thinking. Fixed a crit once and then died anyway.

So next game, more tests, swapped out the R5's for R4-P's(never realized they weren't unique lol) He traded into a new Rebel three Ace list. He didn't have much experience with any of it which is what I credit this win too. On top of some really luck-out hard moments on the dice for me. But I shot down Jake, Corran, and Wedge surrendered by turn five. No casualties. But again, lucked out against two torpedoes and got lucky against Jake's greens. Also got stupid lucky on both my own torpedoes that went. So another anomaly.

But the R4-P's... Those felt neat. I won't lie, I think the N-1 dial is flawed as heck. After over 30 games with straight Nana's in a list, I've earned the right to say so. So having that Droid freed me up considerably for at least one trick where I T-rolled up to the board edge, and could plan on a 1-straight back in at blue. Which was going to feel really good. So this Fiverr list might see a return visit for those alone if nothing else.

And that's all for tonight. Tomorrow, we ride with the rising Banana! To glory! To war! To banana creme filling!

Woof.

Man, I don't even want to write this one. It was rough. It's going to end up rant-esque. But I guess there's no stopping it.

First. Let me just say thank Forcing Obi-Wan Jesus there's Hyperspace. It may be my only salvation.

So the other games store in our weekly circuit that we give to Thursdays didn't have a sixth 'Nana to buy either. Sad face. So we got another two rounds with the Five guys burgers and fries. And first round was against an extended list. Owwwwww. Vader+PS+Afterburner and three inquisitors with Foresight. After round six I had lost two ships, half of another... And failed to deal a single damage. Had constant shots but couldn't pin a torpedo. And two die primes vs three agility and the Force? Well... Y'know. And we rightly called it there. Funny part was I only let slip one Foresight shot. He just did it with straight shots and... Force. Oh and Vader didn't actually shoot till turn six either. I had trapped him and he broke out in the initial. Salt meet wound.

Can I just leave that game there for tonight? I really, really am too tired to get into how stupid that match was.

Next game was fun. Separatists with 4xESC droids and Dooku with the works including palp. He was just trying it out and the game was more a joke fest than a real game. I won when we called it, three droids killed and Dooku bleeding bad, one banana at half.

For now let me just say that this concept MIGHT work in hyperspace. MAYBE.

On 1/23/2020 at 1:39 PM, ForceSensitive said:

But the R4-P's... Those felt neat.

Good to hear these little droids did ok. They certainly have a better ability than regular r4 astros (not many ships need to use the r4 astro ability very often besides Poe) but at 4pts I've never brought myself to field one, especially because I often skimp out on R2 as well to save points for something else. Maybe one day I'll fit an R4-P on broadside.

3 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

For now let me just say that this concept MIGHT work in hyperspace. MAYBE.

If you struggled dealing damage to that imperial list, then I think you'll have a hard time handling Kylo +4 TIE/fos 😕

However, the main reason I'm here is to say that your 6 N-1 list should be called "Banana Republic" , because it is an unstable list with an action economy dependent on the production of a limited-availability token, the evade.

@gadwag Banana Republic had definitely come up before Lol 😂 Also Pad-maidens had my favorite, first I called it Padme's slumber party, and off that the guys came up with Bananas in Pajamas 🤣 😂 LMAO

Yeah R4-P I think we'll be able interesting bit of this deep dive. Last night as I drifted off I was thinking about it versus the basic R4 and it had occurred to me that while I bought the P for the ability to get 3-hard and 4+straight as possible blues, three for three times I've used it to setup a 1-speed instead 🤨

And I think this hits on a point I made in the last deep dive, this ship struggles because it's so dependent on going fast to break par that it's often begging for a way to go slow profitably. Locally we have a saying that 1-straight and 1-hard are the best moves in the game when all else fail. We've been saying that since wave 0 first ed. And as you play your next few games of X-wing consider how often you want to throttle back and you'll see what I'm talking about if you don't already know. These things are terrified to do that because if they do they are a 2/2 with a focus. That's a glorified Zed 95. But they cost 33. Like @KCDodger points out, and I did in the old thread, these are not a filler ship. Despite trying desperately.

So some more experimental time I think is needed on the P variant. But after three games my gut says I should just save 4 points for the bid against say 5-X, and get the basics. I'll still get a 2-turn and all my ones back which is still good value. I could see the gain of the P model on a Republic Y for sure, considering your rocking the original Y dial. But I'm with you, 4 points is steep to pay. Like 3 sure, but I'm not gaining that much over a base model on either ship so paying twice as much seems unreasonable when you can just settle for good enough.

Like the Y doesn't really care what speed it goes, as long as it gets that 2-hard blue it's probably content. But I'm reaching on the N-1, to trigger a mild ability, in the one condition I've T-rolled, for realistically only a 3-hard on occasion. Which will likely not have room, or get me to the point of just having to disengage again anyway on an overshoot. So...I don't know. I'll probably have to try just the basics and see if I ever regret not spending the extra for the P model.

As for Kyle and his Gang... Probably right. At least they won't have free Forc-ulate on the FOs. That was my greater barrier. Also what's the list specifically? Will I have the chance to tie the FO init? At least chance bidding on blocks or locks? If they're 2s I also get simul fire. Depending, at least o don't think it's an auto lose as hard.

And man, I still need time to cool off before writing the comparison between N-1's and V1's... Lol it's two lines 😅 😄 I'm so punny.

2 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

I bought the P for the ability to get 3-hard and 4+straight as possible blues, three for three times I've used it to setup a 1-speed instead 🤨

I appreciate your efforts to crack the code with bananas! My quick take is that they feel like they’re stuck on the struggle bus, pending an even bigger points drop. But I wanna make them work. I wanna party like it’s 1999!

I’ve yet to try the R4-Ps for exactly the reasons you get into above. IMO part of the secret with N-1s (which I will NOT claim to know the secret in full) is to know when not to go zoom-zoom. At the end of the day they’re just a 2/2 jousty banana that hits like a banana and squishes like one, too—you need an edge (or a peel) if you wanna do better. Being able to suddenly slow-roll isn’t a great edge, but it’s something. And the low low cost of getting that edge is an R4. Saving a couple of points absolutely makes a difference when you start out struggling to justify your own base cost.

Here’s another hot take: if we ever get affordable multi-charge R1-2 torps, or (heaven help us) R1-3 torps, I think the N-1 will suddenly come into its own. Because the problem with bananas is that they wanna go fast enough that they might end up close, but they’re not really tanky or tricky enough to lean into the role of dedicated APT carrier. Plus, after you blow your one APT charge, it’s kinda game over. The best kind of bananagram would be the bananagram that keeps on giving.

Plasma torps were clearly meant to enable just this kind of bananagram, but 9 points for 3 dice at R2-3 is kinda meh, even though they can get the extra shield-pull if it works. Plasma isn’t terrible, but it gets hard to justify a Plasma + Passive banana when you could just take a 104th ARC for cheaper. Granted, they’re not exactly cognates (and there’s Hyperspace to consider), but a cheap ARC is relatively easy to jam in there and get value—whereas the N-1’s always gonna have to work more for it.

Anyway, thanks for kicking this off, and I hope we can find a way to maximize the N-1’s ap- peel . 😁

I've got three bananas, and three banana generic alt-arts. Seems like that's something I want to use.

My current thought is just three N-1s, plus CLT Obi and Plo.

//

59 minutes ago, CoffeeMinion said:

Here’s another hot take: if we ever get affordable multi-charge R1-2 torps, or (heaven help us) R1-3 torps, I think the N-1 will suddenly come into its own. Because the problem with bananas is that they wanna go fast enough that they might end up close, but they’re not really tanky or tricky enough to lean into the role of dedicated APT carrier. Plus, after you blow your one APT charge, it’s kinda game over. The best kind of bananagram would be the bananagram that keeps on giving.

How much would we expect for a price for a 2 charge, range 1-2, 4 dice torpedo, requires Lock, either no fancy text or the hit-to-crit? 10 points?

Ive been flying Ric and the Bravo Bois lately and its ok, if you have cold dice its hard but theres plenty of room to iterate.

Bravo Flight Officer (33)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3

Bravo Flight Officer (33)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3

Bravo Flight Officer (33)
Passive Sensors (3)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)

Ship total: 45 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 3

Ric Olié (42)
Outmaneuver (6)
Fire-Control System (2)
R2 Astromech (7)

Ship total: 57 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 3


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v8ZsZ200Z323X240WW136Y323X240WW136Y323X240WW234Y333X126W113W2W&sn=Hyper Ric and the Bravo Bois&obs=coreasteroid5,core2asteroid4,core2asteroid5

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

How much would we expect for a price for a 2 charge, range 1-2, 4 dice torpedo, requires Lock, either no fancy text or the hit-to-crit? 10 points?

What if it was as you say, except the text took a cue from HLC and required you to change one crit result to a hit? Just one, though. Could we get that down to 8 points, or would that be OP?

I've wondered about a 'dumb fire' torpedo for these for a long time. If there was a bullseye only one pile a variant of proton rocket. While I think they are sadly restrictive, or would at least be something for this chassis and others.

37 minutes ago, CoffeeMinion said:

What if it was as you say, except the text took a cue from HLC and required you to change one crit result to a hit? Just one, though. Could we get that down to 8 points, or would that be OP?

I mean, OP is a high standard. But I think I'd have a hard time going less than 9. To get to 8... I think you'd need to do something somewhat Plasma-like, where it's a 3-dice attack (not as good at pushing damage) but with somehow dealing an extra hit. I dunno.

The Nerf to r2 at 2-agility REALLY hurts given the n1 is a defensive powerhouse and not much else

Still, nothing stopping Anakin from flinging full modded torps with passive sensors

And Ric I guess is still an i5 at what are i2 prices for workhorse ships

Powerhouse? Eh. Debatable. Anakin and Ric with the R2 I'd say yes between the extra die and Forc-ulate. But any other in the chassis? I'd say firm no I think. With an R2 I'd still say it's iffy. As I recall @ficklegreendice in our last discussion on this that was your position then as well. And even back then my walk away with them was that the ship was a 'non-engager' and the best list we had at the time indeed had Ani and an R2 on all of the four, mostly because of that conclusion. So I do surely agree with you that it really hurt my old game. Between the R2 and the PS price increase as I mentioned, even factoring the discount on a Bravo, that list became illegal. It's very odd for me to wrap my head around that old sub-par list being 'too much'.

But I'm hoping right now that's for the better. Sure I'd rather have just seen the hyper defensive Force users hit harder then the cop-out Regen Droid that was only a symptom of that problem. But that's not what I got.

I'm hoping that the room for a fifth ship in the list gets me actual attack power back, along with maintaining my blocking ability, even if it means ultimately I lost a torpedo from the alpha. Because let's be real, the objective of the game is still kill them. And without my Regen I have to work a lot more since I can't Droid my way back from half points on a ship or two. I very often, almost every game, would still lose those ships in a round before I could even use the droids as it was. Sometimes even in a late game state too.

This is a half baked list that was tossing around my noggin as a replacement.

Dynamic Duo Duo (198/200)
========================
Naboo Royal N-1: Ric Olié (42 + 14)
+ Crack Shot (1)
+ Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
+ R2 Astromech (7)
Naboo Royal N-1: Anakin Skywalker (41 + 17)
+ Crack Shot (1)
+ Plasma Torpedoes (9)
+ R2 Astromech (7)
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33 + 9)
+ Passive Sensors (3)
+ Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
Naboo Royal N-1: Bravo Flight Officer (33 + 9)
+ Passive Sensors (3)
+ Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, OP is a high standard. But I think I'd have a hard time going less than 9. To get to 8... I think you'd need to do something somewhat Plasma-like, where it's a 3-dice attack (not as good at pushing damage) but with somehow dealing an extra hit. I dunno.

Maybe if you had a word torpedo that still had like 4 firepower, but you couldn't modify any dice? Still had the proton focus-to-crit and that was it? Super high variance?

1 hour ago, ForceSensitive said:

Maybe if you had a word torpedo that still had like 4 firepower, but you couldn't modify any dice? Still had the proton focus-to-crit and that was it? Super high variance?

From the makers of “Mangler Cannon,” it’s “Gambler Torpedo!”

I want to build Little Anakin for an Hyperspace list (with 2 CLT jedi and Broadside) and I'm not sure how to load him. I was thinking APT and Passive Sensors, how is he flown?

2 hours ago, oaicart said:

I want to build Little Anakin for an Hyperspace list (with 2 CLT jedi and Broadside) and I'm not sure how to load him. I was thinking APT and Passive Sensors, how is he flown?

Here’s a list, not sure how good it is though...

ObiPloBroadsideLilAni

(48) Obi-Wan Kenobi [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(4) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 52

(44) Plo Koon [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(4) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 48

(41) Anakin Skywalker [Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter]
(3) Passive Sensors
(13) Proton Torpedoes
Points: 57

(36) "Broadside" [BTL-B Y-wing]
(2) R4 Astromech
(5) Ion Cannon Turret
Points: 43

Total points: 200

2 hours ago, pakirby said:

Here’s a list, not sure how good it is though...

ObiPloBroadsideLilAni

(48) Obi-Wan Kenobi [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(4) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 52

(44) Plo Koon [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(4) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 48

(41) Anakin Skywalker [Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter]
(3) Passive Sensors
(13) Proton Torpedoes
Points: 57

(36) "Broadside" [BTL-B Y-wing]
(2) R4 Astromech
(5) Ion Cannon Turret
Points: 43

Total points: 200

Totally reasonable list. It's all good pilots, with no bad upgrades, and it isn't missing any "necessary" upgrades.

Any list which meets those markers is going to be at least decent.

3 hours ago, pakirby said:

Here’s a list, not sure how good it is though...

ObiPloBroadsideLilAni

(48) Obi-Wan Kenobi [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(4) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 52

(44) Plo Koon [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(4) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 48

(41) Anakin Skywalker [Naboo Royal N-1 Starfighter]
(3) Passive Sensors
(13) Proton Torpedoes
Points: 57

(36) "Broadside" [BTL-B Y-wing]
(2) R4 Astromech
(5) Ion Cannon Turret
Points: 43

Total points: 200

I was thinking pretty much the same, with APT instead if the bid is needed in my shop.

Other lists I thought had Padme for style points or just Ric.

@oaicart , hoo boy there's a rough question. I'll try.

Really, I can only tell you how I used him. I can't speak for anyone else. I don't know how people on the worlds stage thought was best. And I really only know how I used him in my own specific squads.

I used him as a flanker, with Plasma Torpedoes to keep him with options, while I loosely jousted with the rest of my list.

To accomplish this, I would deploy him uncommitted and loosely in center to on a third, and then either use his Force roll to rip out hard to a side and cut out to the flank before coming back in, or durdle around with odd sequences to buy for time while the mains went in and then follow from a distance. Usually the former.

His Force Barrel roll is tricky to utilize fully, and really only comes into it's own if he has init advantage. I used it mostly for early positional gain all the time, and mid positional correction when I could. If you've ever played with Advanced Sensors you may have an easier time getting acquainted to it.

By and large, until his torpedoes were spent, I considered his Force dedicated to their hitting power. I was loath to use it recklessly and not have it for those very important alpha strikes. Even when that meant taking some lumps.

Targeting wise, if I could focus a Target, great. If not, just get your ordnance out on to something. He cracked the Shields open for more ships to get value down the line. He rarely took kill shots.

When in doubt, bank out. If you think they want to chase him let them. Get squirrelly and run. If he distracts half a list, you gain some advantage against the rest with whatever else you got.

So that's it. Your proposed list is very different from how I've used him, so don't really know if that will even help. He may in your list fill at best a similar role but not quite the same? Best of luck. And may the Force be with you both!

18 hours ago, oaicart said:

I was thinking pretty much the same, with APT instead if the bid is needed in my shop.

Other lists I thought had Padme for style points or just Ric.

ya, I might actually replace anakin with Ric & APT

Finally! All six got on a table at once. It was pretty! It was also... Pretty bad!

One game only, against more of the Inquisitors I do so dearly despise in a matchup. So not much of a test. But, it was likely enough to call all the stress testing done in one go in a way. So there I was, staring down three Inquisitors and a Sheeve-uttle. So I just started blastin'!

I got a half way decent opening setup, got an approach I was mostly okay with, had a follow through plan that could get me out to something and successfully into the flanks. Lost a ship in the Opening engagement, didn't quite play out the way I wanted but sick is life when you get down to dice in a joust that you don't get to pick. Took 2 Shields off a lambda in return. Lost a ship in the second plus some damage to another, two Shields off a Inq. Third combat round I got real lucky and killed the Inq, took some more damage around my side. Fourth combat lost two more and only had the shuttle to half, Shields down on my second to last Banana. Called it there as obvious results are obvious.

Conclusions for the N1: there is nothing about this ship that is 'fast'. Two agility, with an evade that only happens occasionally and at cost of predictable positions , does not a defensible ship make. So I really had nothing to leverage in the match as the only thing I had over the Inqs was a Hull point.

Theorize 6xN1 for hyperspace: Don't try it, they have the high ground! No offensive punch and limited maneuver options will have you getting worked over by any benchmark mono chassis list like 5xX, 5xA2+ao, 6xA1+cs, Tie Swarm, 4xFang. So if it's something your looking to do, go back to at least 5 with upgrades. I don't think the 4 with stuff will be consistent enough here either. As you'll still be at least a ship short compared to the other monos.

So moving back to what actually might work maybe another time. Before I go, since I suppose I'd like to make sure my experience here and opinion on the disparity between the two ships is at least recorded before the next rotation, let's get into this comparison.

**This is where this is going to get super long, feel free to dip out here if a talent isn't what you're expecting ou-SQUIRREL! also snip quotes above and below this marker for ease**

The differences and similarities between these two ships, N-1's and TIE adv. Prototypes, is stark, glaring, and clear even on paper. So I'm just going to go line by line down the two. This is generic feedback to anyone who cares to rummage through a little of the games inner workings for better overall assessment. Really it's just a rabbit hole that at best can inform other future experience. Before I go on, full disclosure, this is not a perfect comparison or even that scientific in it's approach. It's just going to be in each category, which had the better end of the stick. Think of it like the Grammys for Stats.

To get as distilled to the base line as I can, I'm going to use generics from the two chassis. Of the generics available to compare is the first strike against the N-1 as it only has the one, Bravo Flight Officer. Again, to keep the comparison between the two as balanced as possible I'll use the closest (currently) costed V1. Fortunately the comparison here won't affect the base line V1 much as both it's generics have I3, and the only difference is the Force point and a matching Force power slot. And may as well since the V1 has a fair share of it's upper pilots as Force users anyway, so may as well include it in the comparison anyway as 'base'. And the cost is really close at only two points difference to the Inqs, instead of the three down to the Barons. Bravos versus Inquisitors is then our two. But again, even the Baron well wins this one despite not being 'closer' in value, as we'll see.

And already we're 3 strikes against the N-1: Selectable pilot cards in the generic category (1 vs 2), Initiative (2 vs 3), and the Force (no vs yes, number would just be semantics)

On to the stat line. Both have a Primary of 2, so we call that even. Thematically they each have their appropriate secondary option, Torpedoes and Missiles. Both are good ways to get extra utility and alpha damage so I'm inclined to call this a wash. I don't for only the reason that missiles are overall the less expensive way to get either end result and let's assume we just 'tax' the chassis to represent this. Bravo will pay six for the cheapest torp, Inquisitors pay let's say 5 for mostly comparable Clusters. Now only a point different between the two, and the Inquisitors are pulling double tap and multiple upgraded attacks in general. So another strike to the N-1. Point goes to Prototype.

Two agility against three. Strike to the Banana again. Duh moving on

Hull finally puts a point on the board in Bravo favor! One extra! And Shields are a wash! Woot. For those keeping score though the V1 is still winning this by 5-1, with two tied categories. And it gets worse so let's get on with it. We won't hit the Force value as we already had it above.

Action bar wise they're pretty similar as many ships are, so we'll pick on the differences. Despite them both being 'fast' the Evade action is only native to the V1 here. Sad as it is also a key action for a different pilot card psuedo-generic for the Royal Starfighter. Also despite the apparent speed similarities, only the Advanced prototype has the ability to stress for a focus off of any of it's actions, and it's off of both it's reposition options. So with an extra action choice overall, and two link to focus options that are essentially strictly better versions of the same Action on the N-1, this category goes overwhelmingly to our Prototype again. Here I'll award then three points to it for each improved or additional action as separate line items. I'll admit, I'm not sure that's the best way to snow the category, not that's what I'm going with.

Score is now 8-1 Inquisitors favor. We'll look at the dial now. Bear in mind, speed matters.

Basics first, we'll just pick on the differences like before. Too save typing I trust you can pull their dials up in another window. Major differences are 1 straight and 1 hard. Sketchy, but I'll like to give that to the Inquisitors. It is an extra option on the dial entirely, and with how they both work it's a trade the N-1 would have happily made. Instead, I'll call it a wash though as there's bigger things to pick on.

Special next. Clear winner prototypes again with an entire extra option in the Koiogran. A move that far too often I only wish Nana's had available at literally any speed. Force, even just Segnors. As Talon speed is debatable in advantage, I see no reason to examine the category further.

Blue cruise. Tough. They both have 6 choices. But the prototype does have hard turns over the Nana's. And in terms of usability, with an additional special move, and linked actions having that much freedom will be a factor more often. So again Inqy gets it.

Dial total I'll give two points to the V1. 10-1, two ties. Upgrade bars being what they are, and since we already got the secondary weapon slot covered, let's just call Astromech a wash to sensors so we can just be done with it.

At this point, if you've read this far, first congratulations on putting up with me. It's not easy I know. I'm sure your wondering why I'd bother writing out the obvious. In truth, it's half to vent. Also in truth, it's not for the reason of just these two ships, or any given two out there. It's a little more complicated than that.

I've noticed since the release of second edition what I believe to be an interesting trend in game ship design different from first edition. And that is it seems more and more that a 'ship' is more built around the 'pilots' in 2.0, where in first it felt the other way around in most cases. Other 'pilot first' designs in 2.0 I'd say things like the new Tie Baron, Nantex, and Aethersprite all feel pilot centric designed. I believe this leads to occasional flawed designs. Which realistically we were going to end up with some anyway, this is just looking at the why of how it occurrs in X-wing.

It would not for example surprise me in any way to learn that N-1's two agility was a result of it's pilot card Ric. If Ric is what you designed first or close to, and was a focus of say your testing and other developments, the ship as a whole would seem in line with other game pieces, and setting the agility to two to keep Ric balanced would make sense. Having a third die on offense or defense had always had a huge impact on the ships in both editions. Ric may have skewed the need for that 3rd agility in development, wounding the unit as a whole. It's not that Ric is a bad design on it's own, it's just that anything you changed because of or in spite of it, the whole product pays for. Notably they didn't feel the need to change Ric's or Anakin's price, which I feel could also be an indicator that those are supposed to be 'target balance valued' if you will.

Similarly Anakin may have skewed the development of the dial and action bar. So could the Handmaidens have been included with their need to have a evade token impacted the action bar and ship ability. Fears about how an astro would play into this as a whole may have independently skewed any number of factors of the packages design.

Is this bad? Well, ultimately it will be up to the designers and feedback from testing, so this stream of consciousness is just whatever. I'd say personally I feel it limits the design of the game more overall to focus pilot design first if that's what's happening, rather than ship first and pilots to suit. It will be curious to see what next wave brings us. And future pilot packs.

...I need coffee... And alcohol. And then it's back to designing 5N squads!

@ForceSensitive A few thoughts for you sir. You’re comparison of the N-1 to the V1 is likely the wrong ship to use. If anything the N-1 is more like a Tie Fighter with a shield upgrade than the V1. The issue is you’re comparing a ship that wants to knife fight to a ship that more or less wants to move in and out . it can on paper look quite heavily weighted in one favor over another especially after a matchup where your opponent is well versed in a list vs a new attempt. Evaluate your N-1 to an Obsidian Squadron Pilot with a shield upgrade you might suddenly see where you’re ship is and a better idea of how to use it.

The little battle report seemed to be lacking some details so I cannot say with certainty things were not done properly. Though from the sounds of it a few missed opportunities for blocks as well as moving ships around and not just a strait joust were attempted before the first engagement. The one thing the N-1’s can do well is range control. They have the speed and maneuvering for it. Also never doubt a good 3 bank bail out and boost. then Talon the opposite direction when you can as a way to really catch someone off guard and possibly way out of position.

just observations for your consideration