https://stayontheleader.blogspot.com/2020/01/x-wings-going-through-changes-wave-6.html
Can we peer behind the curtain at what's been going on these last few months?
[BLOG] X-Wings Going Through Changes
Clever analysis. Makes sense :)
I think it adds up pretty well myself.
It's a bit of a Catch-22. I'm sure the developers, whether they had any say or not, have seen some arguments along the lines of "you should never have done the Conversion Kits, because veterans didn't buy new things", but there's no guarantee that the alternative would really have been better. Telling people to rebuy everything is a great way to get a fan base to walk out on you, I've seen it before. As I've said since the beginning of the Edition, the game was never really built for easy edition transitions to begin with, no matter how it was handled. I'm not sure if we're any better about that now than before.
It's a bit worrying, I've seen bigger things crash due to the apparent overstock we're dealing with here, but it's also a bit... hopeful?
There were several sets that I had been holding out on picking up the old versions of because I was waiting for the Second Edition reprint. With those on hold (maybe for good), I'll feel a lot less guilty picking up the less articulated ones 😜 , not to mention other miscellaneous sets I see at stores that haven't been able to sell them off.
Also, I kind of hope it encourages them to start reaching some more for ships again? There is still a lot for them to draw on, but even if they're more obscure, getting new things out for the "finished" factions is probably more important than it had been portrayed.
In general, whether or not the analysis is 100% correct, I feel like we have a slightly better idea as to where we stand after these announcements. It really sucks that the lack of a need for reprints have probably dealt a heavy blow to an otherwise popular and well-selling game, but the game probably has enough of a buffer to recover after this shift.
Edited by JokubasHence the cardboard only releases for quick (production/printing-wise) cash grab. I.E. Hotshots ... Never Tell Me the odds
57 minutes ago, buckero0 said:Hence the cardboard only releases for quick (production/printing-wise) cash grab. I.E. Hotshots ... Never Tell Me the odds
If they're going to do a "Cash Grab" I'm all for this type.
I'd buy as much new cardboard for OT factions as you could sell me (after play-testing for a reasonable amount of time). Seriously I care more about these cardboard packs than pretty much any plastic from the past 3 years and likely the next one or two.
That's where the heart and soul of a game is, after all.
Great article. I think the heart of the issue is XWing will never be as profitable or as long lasting as warhammer, i suspect FFG guys were hoping it could have been, and perhaps the game has run its course.
The two main issues, which ironically got me into the game are;
squads/armies are cheap, in real money. 40k probably costs ten times more per playable army/squad than Xwing and two, they come painted. In warhammer if I wanted a different space marine chapter I had to buy it all again. In XWing it doesn't matter if it is the attack on the second death star or something from the Rebels show, I use the same mix of As, Bs and Xs (This is why clone era is important,it is completely different)
Because of this I don't need to buy more plastic, but I do buy all the new rules they can release. I think the conversion kits were a good decision that likely did not negatively effect future sales.
Perhaps Epic will boost sales a bit, I know that needing 3 for a wing has made me create a wish list again. But in general while the star wars universe is big, the dog fight bit has pretty much been captured by the current state of XWing.
As an aside, FFG should look at trafic on there community site, this site, I bet that it shows the eb and flow of interest and right now it is ebbing.
3 hours ago, Jokubas said:There were several sets that I had been holding out on picking up the old versions of because I was waiting for the Second Edition reprint. With those on hold (maybe for good), I'll feel a lot less guilty picking up the less articulated ones 😜 , not to mention other miscellaneous sets I see at stores that haven't been able to sell them off.
I just bought a Resistance Bomber on sale tonight, thanks to this very mindset. And I did it before finding this thread. So yeah, this plan works.
QuoteAlso, I kind of hope it encourages them to start reaching some more for ships again? There is still a lot for them to draw on, but even if they're more obscure, getting new things out for the "finished" factions is probably more important than it had been portrayed.
Agree. The card packs can add some fluff, but if you really want people to buy Rebels and Empire, you need new ships.
QuoteIt really sucks that the lack of a need for reprints have probably dealt a heavy blow to an otherwise popular and well-selling game,
Yeah, reprinting all of 1.0 into 2.0 always seemed like kind of a bone-headed idea, IMHO. There was NEVER any way that FFG was going to be able to support XWM by having 150+ ships across 7 faction in print ALL THE TIME. Heck, I said that years ago:
I suspect that ships like the TIE/ag, Auzituck, Stolen TIE, Shadowcaster, and a few others are gone more-or-less forever.
And personally, I think that's fine.
As @Stay OT Leader points out, the game cannot just sit back and let "finished factions" for veteran players kill sales. Shoot, I don't know how y'all can play Empire and Rebels for 2 years straight with no new material--among other things, it was one of the things that kept me out of 2.0. I got in specifically because new factions (ergo new ships/new product} were coming.
I have had no use at all for a 1.0 rerelease unless it had a new paint job--and even then I only bought 1. OTOH, I have 8 N-1 Naboos, 4 Republic ARCs, and 4 Republic Y-Wings. Knowing there were no new cards either made it very easy to say "naw, got that." If you want to see the nature of FFG'S back stock problem, go look at Miniature Market's 1.0 sale. They have 20+ listed as quantity on hand for 2 or 3 dozen ships. Somebody has been sitting on that stock for almost 2 years.
Truly supporting Epic also offers FFG another avenue to grow the game; despite a lot of naysaying by a certain set of players that "no one plays Epic," the fact that no one can find an Epic CK or a Huge Battle pack should be a significant eye-opener for FFG about future sales in this category.
Lastly, FFG seems to have realized that only making a handful of Limited Edition Repaints was just a stupid way to not make money, and has adjusted the policy accordingly.
I like the idea of card packs as filler, but A New Plastic Ship On A Peg is what keeps XWM making money.
And I think that there is nothing wrong with having ships going into Out Of Print status after a year or two on the market. First, it prevents SKU bloat. Second, it keeps the game fresh. Third, it creates a sense of urgency for a player to buy said product, because it isn't going to be around forever.
Lastly, for folks like @ClassicalMoser , card packs can come and go, as well. FFG should just keep rebundling things with a few new ideas sprinkled in to keep things fresh. Like, what if FFG finally made super-huge asteroids/clouds/debris that are twice as big as what we currently have. And made them for 2020 Hyperspace only. There are just so many easy ways to jazz up the game, have it be for a season of OP, and move on.
Edited by Darth MeanieInteresting read. Thanks.
Certainly made me nervous at the end...power creep , releasing must have upgrades on ships I dont want...
Hopefully it all works out. Second edition has been fantastic for me so far.
2 hours ago, TBot said:Certainly made me nervous at the end...power creep , releasing must have upgrades on ships I dont want...
Power creep isn't going to be a big issue, because old ships will rotate out. That means the power level in hyperspace can stay roughly the same (whereas if the only competitive format was extended, power creep is vital for making money). So, you don't have to worry about old ships becoming trash and never seeing the table again, they will still be fine in extended - but rotation will force you to keep buying ships.
If you allow the shameless plug, I wrote about the same issue two weeks ago. I put more blame on PAI, but the gist is the same:
17 minutes ago, Stefan said:If you allow the shameless plug, I wrote about the same issue two weeks ago. I put more blame on PAI, but the gist is the same:
It’s a shame it’s behind a paywall, could have been an interesting read!
I just spotted another sentence that I definitely should have highlighted in the blog. This comes from the Organised Play Roadmap:
"The second edition of Star Wars: X-Wing launched with a promise to first edition players that all they needed was a Conversion Kit to continue to play with the ships they know and love. I plan to keep to that promise as much as my remit allows ."
That 'as much as my remit allows' bit looks to me like another foam finger pointing at somebody else telling the OP team to push Hyperspace and get rid of Extended.
8 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:As @Stay OT Leader points out, the game cannot just sit back and let "finished factions" for veteran players kill sales. Shoot, I don't know how y'all can play Empire and Rebels for 2 years straight with no new material--among other things, it was one of the things that kept me out of 2.0. I got in specifically because new factions (ergo new ships/new product} were coming.
But what new material is left for these factions? In 1E, the sequel factions were technically part of the original factions, but an Empire player who didn't like the First Order was in exactly the same boat as a 2E Empire player. I agree new stuff is good, but unless we get more OT movies or FFG decides to dig into the EU again, it can't last forever.
8 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:And I think that there is nothing wrong with having ships going into Out Of Print status after a year or two on the market. First, it prevents SKU bloat. Second, it keeps the game fresh. Third, it creates a sense of urgency for a player to buy said product, because it isn't going to be around forever.
Well, everyone else has drawn their line in the sand, and this is mine. If FFG decides that products will start being limited-edition, I'm out of X-Wing for good. I'm not playing the game of trying to track down my favorite ship on eBay just because I didn't manage to pick up a copy the day it released.
8 hours ago, TBot said:Certainly made me nervous at the end...power creep , releasing must have upgrades on ships I dont want...
That's troubling to me, too. Hopefully they'll have learned their lesson and won't let it get as bad as 1E, because I think that would be the death of the game. People who happily embraced 2E would feel betrayed, and people who reluctantly left 1E would feel swindled. And honestly, I'm not sure either would be incorrect if that happened.
One thing I'm not sure was touched on much was how the conversion kits became even more of an issue because of the large stockpiles of 1E available. This meant that it wasn't just vets buying them, but even brand-new players were being encouraged to just buy a conversion kit and old, discounted 1E product rather than the reprints.
At least Armada seems to be picking up steam.
Edited by JJ48The annoying thing is that there are many ships I don’t ever need to buy more of because I got all I needed in 1e stock and the conversion kit. But on the other hand, I need them to reprint the StarViper badly, because the kit only covers two, I don’t want to buy another kit for a single ship, and the Singleton cardboard is hard to find and expensive on eBay.
Also, I really want the new Black Sun paint on a StarViper.
10 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:Truly supporting Epic also offers FFG another avenue to grow the game; despite a lot of naysaying by a certain set of players that "no one plays Epic," the fact that no one can find an Epic CK or a Huge Battle pack should be a significant eye-opener for FFG about future sales in this category.
I wonder about this, as well. Any opinion from @Stay OT Leader about Epic Battles and/or Huge ships would be appreciated. Will they enter Organized Play? Or will it only be Hyperspace? There is room for Epic Battles to do some interesting stuff and I was hoping for something to come out supporting that. I am starting to have my doubts that anything like that will happen. Or that they will even release any new Huge ships. Or content.
Do you think that Hyperspace might include those scenario rules that come in the card packs? As in, Round 1 will be played with Mynock Infestation at the Hyperspace event.
2 hours ago, JJ48 said:But what new material is left for these factions?
Delta-Class T3A shuttle
TIE Shuttle
TIE Boarding craft
TIE Droid
Rogue One (forget official designation)
TIE Defender Elite
Dornean Gunship
Gauntlet Fighter
TIE Brute
lots and lots and lots of cardboard.
Don't forget that devil guy in the Cantina scene. We haven't seen a Pilot or Crew card for him yet!
I think of greater concern is the fact that there are still some iconic ships with no 2.0 availability once the 1E stock dries up. I know every ship has fans and would be missed, but in particular, I think the TIE Bomber, Lambda- class shuttle, and Resistance Bomber are conspicuous absences.
2 hours ago, JJ48 said:Well, everyone else has drawn their line in the sand, and this is mine. If FFG decides that products will start being limited-edition, I'm out of X-Wing for good. I'm not playing the game of trying to track down my favorite ship on eBay just because I didn't manage to pick up a copy the day it released.
Well, Limited Edition like the convention repaints is NOT what I mean. I mean that the ship has one or two print runs just like a standard wave, and is around for a year (or maybe two). But then, just like to 1.0 stuff, FFG is not shy about saying "this ship will be OOP for the foreseeable future" when sales flag.
Ergo, they don't need to commit to Every Ship In Print All The Time.
38 minutes ago, Matanui3 said:Also, I really want the new Black Sun paint on a StarViper.
Well, that could be a Limited Edition Con thing.
26 minutes ago, heychadwick said:There is room for Epic Battles to do some interesting stuff and I was hoping for something to come out supporting that.
Well, there is Team Epic at Adepticon. I'm not sure if it is FFG run, but I'll be there the support Epic play at events.
22 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:Rogue One (forget official designation)
Zeta class Shuttle.
And never getting this ship because those factions are "done" would be seriously stupid.
1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:Well, there is Team Epic at Adepticon. I'm not sure if it is FFG run, but I'll be there the support Epic play at events.
Is that team Epic Battles? Or Team Huge ships?
26 minutes ago, JJ48 said:I think of greater concern is the fact that there are still some iconic ships with no 2.0 availability once the 1E stock dries up.
I think that is the problem. 1.0 stock won't dry up.
You can buy TONS of 1.0 ships here at 50% off. And NONE of them are in short supply:
Players are just going to need to be in a new mindset about collecting. Your favorite ship won't be floating around forever any more, so get it this year.
The advantage to this program is that FFG won't need to consider factions "complete;" one model can drop out for a little while to be replaced by another.
If you wanrt this:
you may need to be willing to see this
go away for awhile to make room for it.
Because otherwise, no one else hardly ever needs Vader's TIE anymore, and the game dies for lack of sales.
You say this:
QuoteWell, everyone else has drawn their line in the sand, and this is mine. If FFG decides that products will start being limited-edition, I'm out of X-Wing for good. I'm not playing the game of trying to track down my favorite ship on eBay just because I didn't manage to pick up a copy the day it released.
is a way they will lose you as a customer. But the flip side of that is that they have already lost me as a customer (who is buying things) because I don't need anything that was ever printed for 1.0.
Edited by Darth Meanie14 minutes ago, JJ48 said:I think of greater concern is the fact that there are still some iconic ships with no 2.0 availability once the 1E stock dries up. I know every ship has fans and would be missed, but in particular, I think the TIE Bomber, Lambda- class shuttle, and Resistance Bomber are conspicuous absences.
Gunboats
’nuff said.
(okay, they aren’t exactly iconic, but they are apparently popular and very hard to find)
Quite convincing indeed. There go my hopes of ever finding a 4th and 5th Alpha Class Starwing for $20. ðŸ˜
15 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:Well, Limited Edition like the convention repaints is NOT what I mean. I mean that the ship has one or two print runs just like a standard wave, and is around for a year (or maybe two). But then, just like to 1.0 stuff, FFG is not shy about saying "this ship will be OOP for the foreseeable future" when sales flag.
I'm not meaning special repaints either. Those are great tournament prizes. What I mean is exactly what you seem to be describing: we've printed it a couple times and now it's never being printed again. Having stuff just brought back occasionally (once a year?) is fine, and just requires some patience. But having to rely completely on the second-hand market to get the ships I want is not going to cut it.
4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:If you want this:
you may need to be willing to see this
go away for awhile to make room for it.
Because otherwise, no one else hardly ever needs Vader's TIE anymore, and the game dies for lack of sales.
Honestly, as much as I would love to see an Avenger, I would prefer to go without rather than start chopping old ships. They're free to take the game that direction, but as I said, if they do then I'm out.
I haven't really bought any reprints. I did buy a phantom 2 for $5 and a Kimogila for $10 when our LGS finally put some on clearance.
I've shopped around for broken and used ships, but that's mainly me just looking for parts to cannibalize for my own custom creations.
I did buy some Jedi and they were really fun to fly.