How do you usually ensure your games are double blind? Just on a casual game side? I've had some weird moments where its like one person brings out their list, other person brings out their list. More in Xwing where its easier to change lists than armada. Its hard to hide an SSD: didn't know you were THAT happy to see me.

Just now, Blail Blerg said:

How do you usually ensure your games are double blind? Just on a casual game side? I've had some weird moments where its like one person brings out their list, other person brings out their list. More in Xwing where its easier to change lists than armada. Its hard to hide an SSD: didn't know you were THAT happy to see me.

If I notice it's an issue I've had both players make an assortment of lists usually 3 or 4 and draw one randomly. Or what works for me personally is lining up a match on messenger then revealing lists at the same time in chat so there can't be any changes at the store.

5 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

If I notice it's an issue I've had both players make an assortment of lists usually 3 or 4 and draw one randomly. Or what works for me personally is lining up a match on messenger then revealing lists at the same time in chat so there can't be any changes at the store.

Are people usually ready to do that? I tweak a lot in the ensuing few days, but I could be convinced to stop.

10 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Are people usually ready to do that? I tweak a lot in the ensuing few days, but I could be convinced to stop.

Never really been an issue. Another way to do it is just have the players write the list out and before you take anything out to play show each other your lists. I have a huge lot of Armada and I take the whole collection every time. (so new players can borrow or in case someone else wants to play). It's easy for me to not reveal what I'm going to run. (although I could see where hiding the SSD could be an issue for others.

If it becomes a problem have your group elect a leader and have them collect lists and do pairings like a tournament.

I'm the organizer for our group, so I tend to pair folks up. Often times in our group you don't know what you'll face until they arrive.

Holy 26 point bid, Batman! That, for our group, is bonkers. I’m typically the bid-winner around here, and I don’t think I’ve ever gone higher than 14 points.

Just curious: Are you gunning for the bid so that you can be first, or guarantee second? Or do you make that call on the fly?

3 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

How do you usually ensure your games are double blind? Just on a casual game side? I've had some weird moments where its like one person brings out their list, other person brings out their list. More in Xwing where its easier to change lists than armada. Its hard to hide an SSD: didn't know you were THAT happy to see me.

I mean, honor system usually works for casual games, but just so we know we’re being as fair as possible, my friends and I text each other a list a couple hours before game time, with no objectives included, no points counts (so you have to go out of your way to figure out if you won the bid or not, and if you’re messaging at roughly the same time, there’s no time to switch a list around much).

4 hours ago, xanderf said:

Still, looking at the Regional Data, gut feeling is we're certain for a JJ-SSD nerf...

I think that'll tone things down a bit when JJ is clarified to only work on 'large-base or smaller' (or something along those lines)….

That seems entirely unnecessary... I mean, I really can’t be the only one who’s beating the **** out of these things with Ackbar.

Honestly, I think Jerjerrod seems to be the only reason why the SSD can even manage a significant number of wins. My hope was that Take Evasive Action! would open up some more possibilities for fleets featuring Piett or Vader or something, but from the (limited) lists I’ve tracked down, Jerjerrod seems to be the only Commander people are having success with. Does anyone have evidence of a different Commander doing even passably well?

8 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

That seems entirely unnecessary... I mean, I really can’t be the only one who’s beating the **** out of these things with Ackbar.

Honestly, I think Jerjerrod seems to be the only reason why the SSD can even manage a significant number of wins. My hope was that Take Evasive Action! would open up some more possibilities for fleets featuring Piett or Vader or something, but from the (limited) lists I’ve tracked down, Jerjerrod seems to be the only Commander people are having success with. Does anyone have evidence of a different Commander doing even passably well?

Piett has won a Prime on an SSD too

23 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Honestly, I think Jerjerrod seems to be the only reason why the SSD can even manage a significant number of wins. My hope was that Take Evasive Action! would open up some more possibilities for fleets featuring Piett or Vader or something, but from the (limited) lists I’ve tracked down, Jerjerrod seems to be the only Commander people are having success with. Does anyone have evidence of a different Commander doing even passably well?

Jerjerrod does help with SSD main weakness - navigation, however he only provides a marginal benefit compared to other commanders (Piett, Thrawn), therefore banning JJ from SSD won't be a significant change - i.e. if SSD archetype is too powerful and warrants errata, JJ is not a root cause, but a symptom.

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

Piett has won a Prime on an SSD too

Glad to hear that!

Why is it so hard to find tourney lists for this game? Even for major tournaments, I’ve noticed that players rarely post their OWN lists, never mind their opponents’ lists. And it really surprises me that major tournaments don’t post a “1st - CaptainX, <list>; 2nd - CaptainY, <list>...” report.

Because it would be redundant. All those lists are already collected and published in the 2019-2020 Prime thread.

8 hours ago, Green Knight said:

SSD not a huge fan of Onager.

Yup huge ship counters come out after the huge ship wave 😂

I think it would force SSD lists to go for more deployments i.e. gozer and many squads as escorts, to outdeploy the Onager and not allow it to sit in the opposite corner and snipe the SSD

7 minutes ago, Muelmuel said:

Yup huge ship counters come out after the huge ship wave 😂

I think it would force SSD lists to go for more deployments i.e. gozer and many squads as escorts, to outdeploy the Onager and not allow it to sit in the opposite corner and snipe the SSD

Off topic for a bit, but Sunder feels like binder fodder. 10 points, blue or black crit, and discard the title to discard an o retro/d retro/ord/ion/turbo seems a little expensive for such a limited scope.

Back on topic, do you think that a SSD pushing for activations would drop to a Command for the extra points?

Just now, ianediger said:

Off topic for a bit, but Sunder feels like binder fodder. 10 points, blue or black crit, and discard the title to discard an o retro/d retro/ord/ion/turbo seems a little expensive for such a limited scope.

Back on topic, do you think that a SSD pushing for activations would drop to a Command for the extra points?

Re: Sunder - I'm not convinced. Long range ECM killer? Should see at least niche play.

SSD pushing for activations or deployments? I can see 5 activations command SSD but thats totally different build.

10 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I 've sank a liberty in a single shot with the Ravager lol it's a lot of fun.

Ah, I see you've found your own version of the DSD (Death Star Destroyer) 👍

18 minutes ago, ianediger said:

Off topic for a bit, but Sunder feels like binder fodder. 10 points, blue or black crit, and discard the title to discard an o retro/d retro/ord/ion/turbo seems a little expensive for such a limited scope.

its 10 points to ensure that you're trading down, otherwise it's a jerk move. Also, sniping off boosted comms from squall is delightful.

2 minutes ago, geek19 said:

its 10 points to ensure that you're trading down, otherwise it's a jerk move. Also, sniping off boosted comms from squall is delightful.

Except that to trigger it reliably, you'd have to be at close range of the targeting token, which is getting fairly close to Squall's threat range. Though I probably feel that way because I think Cataclysm is probably the gold standard for Onager titles. But, potato potahto.

1 hour ago, Formynder4 said:

Because it would be redundant. All those lists are already collected and published in the 2019-2020 Prime thread.

And where is this thread? I’ve been lurking on these forums for years; never seen such a thing...

4 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

And where is this thread? I’ve been lurking on these forums for years; never seen such a thing...

It was formerly the Regional Data collection thread.

We have had one each year the past few years.

its in the front page, near the top.

Furthermore, a LOT of people don’t bother, because it’s understood that player skill and familiarity is a huge factor in the game, so net listing is at a minimum.

5 hours ago, ianediger said:

Except that to trigger it reliably, you'd have to be at close range of the targeting token, which is getting fairly close to Squall's threat range. Though I probably feel that way because I think Cataclysm is probably the gold standard for Onager titles. But, potato potahto.

It's a tittle that perhaps is more comfortable on Onager SD. Romodi + CF and a selection of Weapons Teams make it not so hard to trigger from a blue.

Alternatively on a Testbed with Tua/ECM, ET and the Super Laser. Add Quad Turbos to taste. It's a nasty brawler that can rip ships apart.

5 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

It was formerly the Regional Data collection thread.

We have had one each year the past few years.

its in the front page, near the top.

Furthermore, a LOT of people don’t bother, because it’s understood that player skill and familiarity is a huge factor in the game, so net listing is at a minimum.

Yes, I have seen that thread. Wherein a couple people seem to have posted a couple of lists, but mostly nobody can remember what anyone played. Not to discount the fact that some very dedicated people are taking the time to do a card-by-card statistical breakdown (love that, thank you!), but I don’t understand why the lists they’re taking that info from aren’t being copy-pasted (even just the top 3 from each major event?).

As for “net listing,” that’s not at all what I’m looking to do; it’s just that when my relatively isolated group (no tournaments within many hours of us) is sitting around going, “man, why did they make the SSD so weak?” and I tell them that according to the message boards, plenty of people are placing in/winning tourneys with it, and they ask, “well, what are they doing to make it work?” and all I can tell them is “Jerjerrod and Damage Control Officer, just like we’d already been using... and... other upgrades... sometimes squadrons?” it gets frustrating!

I want to thank everyone who’s been taking the time to answer my many questions and comments. I’m a long-time lurker here, but for some odd reason, I was having some kind of technical problem that was preventing most of my posts here from working, until I recently moved. Now it all works fine, but I feel like I’ve just gotten off of a desert island and have some things to ask about!

mostly, it’s a pain in the ****.

i mean, as the TO of the Calgary prime, I have almost all of the lists of the players.

On paper.

On my Desk.

in no useable format for anyone else.

It would take time for me to re filter them all through a list builder for text output.

itd even take time to take pictures of them all and flash them to imgur - abd peopke would STILL complain that they’re unreadable. I know, as I’ve done it in the past.

So mostky, the info is there, the lists are there if you dive into the back end of the spreadsheet. You have to do the digging yourself because, basically, it’s too much for someone else to handle most of the time.

I’d love to be able to. But I only sleep 3 hours a day as it is.

24 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Yes, I have seen that thread. Wherein a couple people seem to have posted a couple of lists, but mostly nobody can remember what anyone played. Not to discount the fact that some very dedicated people are taking the time to do a card-by-card statistical breakdown (love that, thank you!), but I don’t understand why the lists they’re taking that info from aren’t being copy-pasted (even just the top 3 from each major event?).

As for “net listing,” that’s not at all what I’m looking to do; it’s just that when my relatively isolated group (no tournaments within many hours of us) is sitting around going, “man, why did they make the SSD so weak?” and I tell them that according to the message boards, plenty of people are placing in/winning tourneys with it, and they ask, “well, what are they doing to make it work?” and all I can tell them is “Jerjerrod and Damage Control Officer, just like we’d already been using... and... other upgrades... sometimes squadrons?” it gets frustrating!

I want to thank everyone who’s been taking the time to answer my many questions and comments. I’m a long-time lurker here, but for some odd reason, I was having some kind of technical problem that was preventing most of my posts here from working, until I recently moved. Now it all works fine, but I feel like I’ve just gotten off of a desert island and have some things to ask about!

Ackbar is also a good matchup against the ship. I remember you mentioned that you had a few Ackbar lists, and he does well against it. Try some of the other Rebel commanders potentially?

17 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

On paper.

On my Desk.

in no useable format for anyone else.

Ah. Nope, that totally makes sense. I assumed people were submitting these things to the guys doing the spreadsheets in digital format, and figured that while they’re being entered anyway, a quick copy/paste wouldn’t significantly add to the workload. I don’t expect anyone to type them out longhand.

8 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Ah. Nope, that totally makes sense. I assumed people were submitting these things to the guys doing the spreadsheets in digital format, and figured that while they’re being entered anyway, a quick copy/paste wouldn’t significantly add to the workload. I don’t expect anyone to type them out longhand.

I was blessed by the fact that @jamie nasmyth was kind enough to accept them in an image format and transpose the information in.