Looking over the revised rules, I'm unable to find any mention of whether the Hand-to-Hand Combat skill actually does anything. I thought perhaps it would allow a character to use the "Hand-to-Hand" dice pool as opposed to the "No Weapon" dice pool when attacking... but that would then mean that knives of all types would have no purpose.

Does this skill now exist solely for use with possible future Objective Tokens? Or am I missing something in the book?

I'm otherwise very pleased with the new rules - I can't wait to break out the game to try them out!

Theodric said:

As I understand it the H-to-H skill is required to make any Melee attack, regarudless of if a character is armed or not. If a character does not have the H-to-H skill they may only use ranged weapons.

But I only have the 1.0 rules the FAQ, and the 2.0 sample, so I may be missing something.

We will probably need an official clarification on this, but I'm leaning toward the Hand-to-Hand skill not doing anything. See page 12 in the revised rules. It states that certain skills convey particular abilities or are required to use certain equipment, otherwise they don't do anything. It doesn't go on to say - even under the Hand-to-Hand skill description - that characters with that skill make H-t-H attacks as if armed with a melee weapon.

Also, in the combat section there isn't any mention of needing a particular skill to make a melee or ranged attack, you just need the proper weapon type. Therefore, if a character doesn't have a "Weapon, Hand-to-Hand", and they don't want to make a ranged attack, they roll 2 dice. At least that's my interpretation.

I guess the million-dollar question is whether or not the Hand-to-Hand skill = a melee weapon and conveys the ability to use 2 or 4 dice in an attack. So far I'd say it doesn't.

Miah999 said:

That is true for the old rules, but the new rules don't require you to have the Hand-to-Hand skill to make a melee attack. In fact, you don't need any particular skill to make an attack. You just need the right weapon type (see page 21 under "Declare Target and Weapon"). It's a much cleaner and simpler way to handle combat.

Rereading page 12 about skills, I think FFG's design philosophy is to minimize the "skill system" and its impact on the game, reserving it for use with the Objective mode and that's it. Of course, I could be wrong and this could be a huge oversight on their part, but as far as the rulebook goes there's nothing in it tying skills to making an attack.

One thing I was wondering is why someone would want to make a melee attack with a basic hand-to-hand weapon like the knife (e.g. Barry Daniel Brown, who is not a melee specialist). There aren't any minimum weapon ranges anymore, so why wouldn't he want to fire his Flash Machine Gun, even at adjacent targets? Then I realized he needs the knife to make overwatch attacks, as the Flash Machine Gun can't (it's a "Weapon, Automatic, Heavy"). This is also the reason FFG put a basic pistol in his Command Pack. Great thinking! The more I go over these rules, the more I realize how balanced they are.

Nice work FFG.

Yipe said:

This is what I've understood from the revisions as well. I also had the same "huh?" moment when I realized that hand-to-hand wasn't really necessary anymore.

Does every character so far still have the hand to hand skill, or has that changed? If it is still true, perhaps they'll just bother to say what it means to "not" have it when someone doesn't. Not being able to melee attack at all without it would make sense.

Then I realized he needs the knife to make overwatch attacks...

I really can't see spending a CP and missing your turn in the hope somebody wanders within 1 space of you for the return of getting to make a really weak attack.

However, having a melee weapon would make it riskier to bull-rush past him.

StormKnight said:

Well if you count Hound Dog as a character, it would be the only one without it, or any other skill.

StormKnight said:

Sure, using the knife on overwatch is probably not a situation that's going to come up very often. However, I like the fact that it's an option. There are areas on the mansion map that are pretty restrictive (doorways primarily), where blocking the way and going on overwatch could be a good tactic, especially if your playing modes other than Death Match and you've got teammates who need to be protected as they perform a task.

Considering the designers had to use all of the existing tokens, I'm glad they found a use for Barry's knife under the new rules.