Our game is set in 10 BBY. To date we've left the ships and fighters in use fairly vague, but its starting to become more important. Does anyone have a good source for when various ships and fighters came into use?

· When did the Victory-class supplant the Venator-class and when did the Imperial-class supplant the Victory.

· When did the basic TIE fighter come into production supplanting the V-Wing and Eta-2? In Lords of the Sith (14 BBY) the latter fighters are still in use.

· The Y-Wing dates back to the Clone Wars so we've got that nailed down.

· We see more exotic models of TIE fighters in the latter seasons of Rebels and in Rogue One so 2-3 BBY.

· A Wings play a big role in Rebels, so they were in use by the Alliance as as early as 4 BBY, but do we know how early they came into use?

· The B-Wing prototype was showcased in Rebels season 1 (4 BBY), but an actual production version? After the Battle of Yavin?

· We see the X-Wing in the last season of Rebels (1 BBY) and of course Rogue One and A New Hope, but when did the Alliance first obtain it?

In Legends? Canon? These things have been all over the place. Taking the X-wing for example. Originally they were intended to be very old (by Lucas) during the time of the Battle of Yavin. They were described as stripped down "hot rods" with plates removed for easy access to keep them running. Later, Legends had the Rebellion snagging a few that were brand new prototypes (can't get more state-of-the-art then that) a year before the Battle of Yavin. This was in direct conflict with what Lucas originally described and intended.

Regarding starfighters themselves, it was further muddled with Rebels (which I loved) wanting to showcase everything so we had the A-wing popping up early when in Canon it was years away. Of course all of that can be easily retconned with explanations of different models, prototypes, the Rebels had A-wings long ago we just didn't see them on-screen, etc.

Wookiepedia is your friend I'm sure you are aware. If you want to stay with Canon or Legends, there is a page for everything you described and a tab for each. I couldn't find anything that gave an exact timeline of various ships. I did however google "Star Destroyer History" and it looks like there are quite a few sources out there of unknown canonicity.

Being a fan back in 1977, I'm very partial to the original intentions. So, I've got my own versions of histories for some of these ships for my campaigns. My X-wing was not a prototype just before the Battle of Yavin as Legends began with, but a prototype from near the end of the Clone Wars that had only a few models made but set aside when the Empire instead went with the concept of the cheap TIE fighter with no shields or hyperdrive. The rebels later got ahold of them and tooled with them by the time of the Battle of Yavin. Which, coincidentally matches somewhat up with the Canon version currently at Wookiepedia.

I went down this rabbit hole long ago like you are doing and did type up some stuff for my campaigns. Here is my Star Destroyer example: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxzdHVybnNzdHVmZnxneDozN2JlNjQwZTBjNDc5ODgy

On 1/18/2020 at 12:57 PM, Sturn said:

In Legends? Canon? These things have been all over the place. Taking the X-wing for example. Originally they were intended to be very old (by Lucas) during the time of the Battle of Yavin. They were described as stripped down "hot rods" with plates removed for easy access to keep them running. Later, Legends had the Rebellion snagging a few that were brand new prototypes (can't get more state-of-the-art then that) a year before the Battle of Yavin. This was in direct conflict with what Lucas originally described and intended.

Regarding starfighters themselves, it was further muddled with Rebels (which I loved) wanting to showcase everything so we had the A-wing popping up early when in Canon it was years away. Of course all of that can be easily retconned with explanations of different models, prototypes, the Rebels had A-wings long ago we just didn't see them on-screen, etc.

Wookiepedia is your friend I'm sure you are aware. If you want to stay with Canon or Legends, there is a page for everything you described and a tab for each. I couldn't find anything that gave an exact timeline of various ships. I did however google "Star Destroyer History" and it looks like there are quite a few sources out there of unknown canonicity.

Being a fan back in 1977, I'm very partial to the original intentions. So, I've got my own versions of histories for some of these ships for my campaigns. My X-wing was not a prototype just before the Battle of Yavin as Legends began with, but a prototype from near the end of the Clone Wars that had only a few models made but set aside when the Empire instead went with the concept of the cheap TIE fighter with no shields or hyperdrive. The rebels later got ahold of them and tooled with them by the time of the Battle of Yavin. Which, coincidentally matches somewhat up with the Canon version currently at Wookiepedia.

I went down this rabbit hole long ago like you are doing and did type up some stuff for my campaigns. Here is my Star Destroyer example: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxzdHVybnNzdHVmZnxneDozN2JlNjQwZTBjNDc5ODgy

Thanks. I generally stick to "studio canon" (movies + shows) and then season with comics, novels, and games as desired / needed. I will adjust things to suit the table, however, and I also prefer to remain close to Lucas' original intentions whenever possible. My players are big fans of Clone Wars era technology and the idea that the X-Wing was an old prototype without shields or hyperdrives fits.

Wiki and guess work. this is what I use. 😀 . If you got a source or a suggestion for Starship Release Timeline. Lets add to this list!

Rebel Alliance

Z-95 AF4 Headhunter

DP-20 Corellian Gunship

Dornean "Braha'tok' Gunship

Action Transport

Assault Frigate

Cr90 'Correllian' Corvette, Alderaan cruiser

20 bby MC 75 Profundity Class

19 bby. MC 80 Liberty-class

18 bby. R22 Spearhead (Phoenix Cell)

18 bby. Auzituck Gunship

11 bby, VCX-100 Freighter

5 bby. YT-2400 Freighter

2 bby, MC 80a Home One-class

2 bby. R-41 Starchaser

2 bby. Z-95 AF4 Heavy 95

2 bby. BTL-S3 Y-wing

1 bby. BTL-A4 Y-wing

1 bby. TX-65 X-Wing

0 bby X4 Incom Gunship (EaW)

0 bby. U-wing,

0 bby. T-65 X-wing

0 aby. A/SF-01 B-wing

2 aby. RZ-1 A-wing

2 aby MC40a Light Cruiser

3 aby, T-65C-A2 X-Wing

23 hours ago, Sturn said:

In Legends? Canon? These things have been all over the place. Taking the X-wing for example. Originally they were intended to be very old (by Lucas) during the time of the Battle of Yavin. They were described as stripped down "hot rods" with plates removed for easy access to keep them running. Later, Legends had the Rebellion snagging a few that were brand new prototypes (can't get more state-of-the-art then that) a year before the Battle of Yavin. This was in direct conflict with what Lucas originally described and intended.

Regarding starfighters themselves, it was further muddled with Rebels (which I loved) wanting to showcase everything so we had the A-wing popping up early when in Canon it was years away. Of course all of that can be easily retconned with explanations of different models, prototypes, the Rebels had A-wings long ago we just didn't see them on-screen, etc.

Wookiepedia is your friend I'm sure you are aware. If you want to stay with Canon or Legends, there is a page for everything you described and a tab for each. I couldn't find anything that gave an exact timeline of various ships. I did however google "Star Destroyer History" and it looks like there are quite a few sources out there of unknown canonicity.

Being a fan back in 1977, I'm very partial to the original intentions. So, I've got my own versions of histories for some of these ships for my campaigns. My X-wing was not a prototype just before the Battle of Yavin as Legends began with, but a prototype from near the end of the Clone Wars that had only a few models made but set aside when the Empire instead went with the concept of the cheap TIE fighter with no shields or hyperdrive. The rebels later got ahold of them and tooled with them by the time of the Battle of Yavin. Which, coincidentally matches somewhat up with the Canon version currently at Wookiepedia.

I went down this rabbit hole long ago like you are doing and did type up some stuff for my campaigns. Here is my Star Destroyer example: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxzdHVybnNzdHVmZnxneDozN2JlNjQwZTBjNDc5ODgy

Actually, it's the Y-Wing which is described as very old with access plates removed for easy access, not the X-Wing.

35 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Actually, it's the Y-Wing which is described as very old with access plates removed for easy access, not the X-Wing.

They originally (1977ish) were both described as old hot rods with original panels removed allowing more easy access for constant maintenance. I gobbled up the official magazines when I was a kid right after release of the movies. I read them 100's of times. I have SOME of the magazines still with me. If you really need it I can try to find it, but not sure if I still have the specific one and it could be at my mommy's house.

1 minute ago, Sturn said:

They originally (1977ish) were both described as old hot rods with original panels removed allowing more easy access for constant maintenance. I gobbled up the official magazines when I was a kid right after release of the movies. I read them 100's of times. I have SOME of the magazines still with me. If you really need it I can try to find it, but not sure if I still have the specific one and it could be at my mommy's house.

I watched the original move as a six year old at the drive-in in 1977, and also gobbled up the media. The only ship mentioned as having its panels removed was the Y-wing. This is also apparent in the film. The Y-wing does have most of its “skin” removed, except for only the most critical part ( the cockpit). By contrast, none of the X-wing’s panels are visibly missing on screen; not one. It’s fully skinned with armor. It’s only the Y-wing which has panels missing.

3 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I watched the original move as a six year old at the drive-in in 1977, and also gobbled up the media. The only ship mentioned as having its panels removed was the Y-wing. This is also apparent in the film. The Y-wing does have most of its “skin” removed, except for only the most critical part ( the cockpit). By contrast, none of the X-wing’s panels are visibly missing on screen; not one. It’s fully skinned with armor. It’s only the Y-wing which has panels missing.

Well if I find the article I'm referring to I'll post the quotes here or take a picture of the text. It was an article on the snubfighters of the rebels. It wasn't just about Y-wings I'm certain of that. Do you have an original-era source on it only being the Y-wing that was old and refurbished and not the X-wing?

But, no sense in starting an argument over whose memory of the late 70's is better? Either way, if your memory is better, it doesn't really change my response to the OP. Even the new canon has the original X-wing as being rooted in the Clone War era like the Y-wing, not shiny and new during Episode IV as it was in legends. My original post regarding the X-wing was about its changing history as an old ship, to new, then back to old again, regardless of lack of panels specifically or not.

In Legends, four prototype X-Wings were heisted from Fresia in 1 BBY, and that seems to be the beginning point of their service within the Alliance.

In Canon, we don't have as many details, but it was descended from the Z-95/ARC-170 and was originally intended as the empire's new ship. It entered production before being sidelined in favor of Sienar's TIE line.

In conclusion, it seems that the timing for the X-Wing is contingent on timing for the TIE fighter, which is listed on Wookieepedia as having been introduced during or prior to 18 BBY (sourced with a Canon Darth Vader comic).

If you accept this number, which seems too early in my opinion, that puts the X-Wing as a fairly old bird.

For what it's worth, my headcanon on the X-Wing (and, by extension, the TIE) is that it was drawn up roughly five years after the declaration of the Empire, but was mothballed when the contract went to Sienar. Then, years later, Incom made a deal with the Rebels, handing them a few mothballed prototypes and the plans to build more (probably roughly 4 BBY).

44 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

In conclusion, it seems that the timing for the X-Wing is contingent on timing for the TIE fighter, which is listed on Wookieepedia as having been introduced during or prior to 18 BBY (sourced with a Canon Darth Vader comic).

If you accept this number, which seems too early in my opinion, that puts the X-Wing as a fairly old bird.

I tend to agree its a bit too early. A separate new-canon source, Lord's of the Sith , is set in 14 BBY and has Vader still flying an Eta-2 with the squadron he's leading flying V-Wings. Tarkin , which is also set in 14BBY, has Vader flying an Eta-2 supported by V-Wings and ARC-170's. Perhaps the way to reconcile this is to assume that ramping up production and pushing the basic TIE out to enough fleets for it to have become the "standard" Imperial fighter may have taken 8-10 years. For Vader, the Eta-2 is a superior fighter if you have the skill to fly it , so he probably didn't want to give it up until the TIE/adv was available.

Here's a quote I found from Joe Johnston referring to the rebel starfighters. Johnston was an early effects and concept artist for Star Wars. I found it in the annotated screenplays as notes during the dogfights above the Death Star, but I don't know the original source. It seems to go in line with what I recall being reading in the 1977 magazine:

Quote

The other thing was that we wanted to make the ships look like they had been maintained with spare parts; you know, damage had been patched with big panels of a different color. George kept emphasizing that he wanted the ships to look like hot rods, they needed to look used, greasy, maintained with spare parts, sort of held together with wires and chewing gum.

Reading something similar to this back in 1977 is why I was always against the legends notion that the X-wing was a brand new prototype just before Yavin. Heck, just google the images of the X-wing's during the Battle of Yavin and it's obvious George had his way in making them look old and used.

Hmm I was under the impression from everything ive read the x wings were prototypes that were stolen on Fresia and that's the canon, is their something else saying otherwise? The soonest Rebel models might of came out was that year and would of been few in number.

2 hours ago, Sith Interceptor said:

Hmm I was under the impression from everything ive read the x wings were prototypes that were stolen on Fresia and that's the canon, is their something else saying otherwise? The soonest Rebel models might of came out was that year and would of been few in number.

That's a legends story and as far as I know there isnt a cannon story of when or how the rebbelion got there hands on them yet. All we no is that prior to the last half of season 4 of rebels they never use x-wings then suddenly hera shows up in an episode flying/leading a squadron of x-wings.

5 hours ago, Sith Interceptor said:

Hmm I was under the impression from everything ive read the x wings were prototypes that were stolen on Fresia and that's the canon, is their something else saying otherwise? The soonest Rebel models might of came out was that year and would of been few in number.

That was the old Legends explanation from the story mode of Empire at War, an RTS.

2 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

That was the old Legends explanation from the story mode of Empire at War, an RTS.

Yes I played this through and it was fun, but it went against what we had been given before. I love that the new canon has tossed that aside and gone with the original intention. If you go with the legends version, you have the Rebels getting these new prototypes at Fresia, then months later they look like they are battered and old during the Battle of Yavin.

If you still want the Fresia/Legends story, I suppose you could hand-wave it as the X-wings were battle-scarred, paint chipped, had access panels removed, etc. because they were still recovering from service in the Battle of Scarif? But, that's not the impression I get when looking at them, especially with the updated Episode IV models.

During a past Star Wars campaign I actually used the Fresia concept but changed it more to my liking. I changed it into a raid that occurred years before Yavin when the rebels were still hidden on Dantooine. An imperial starfighter research and development facility still had a very large hangar/warehouse off in a corner with a large number of mothballed X-wings of varying prototypes. They had been set aside but not destroyed when the Empire decided on the TIE instead. Some of the scientists in the nearby facility had been part of the X-wing program. With the proper intelligence, they swooped in and nabbed a past X-wing developer that had been disgruntled by the shelving of his pet project. Pilots from the rebel transport then began getting the X-wings in the huge hangar ready for launch as the PCs and other rebels held off security forces. The PCs were able to get away with nearly all of the X-wings. Later, the kidnapped scientist was able to help rebel technicians bring the various X-wing prototypes up to one standardized type, the T65 "B".

7 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

That was the old Legends explanation from the story mode of Empire at War, an RTS.

Yes fun game, but I think it from a comic originally before EaW. Due to the age we see on the X-wings they couldn't have been prototypes in 1 bby. Guesswork from what sources are available. Tie Line Fighters, I have them rolling out late in 14 bby. I like that the project was mothballed but brought back so for as Incoms X-wing Im thinking maybe rolls out in 4-6 bby around the time rebellion was at the Empires doorstep with the Alliance beginning to acquire them in 1 bby from many sources with intention to mass produce the T65b.

According to Wookiepedia TIE/LN comes into service 18 BBY - concerning wether or not other Starfighters are still in use: its very likely.

It gives the same year for A-Wings - deployed by the Alliance in combat.

On 1/19/2020 at 5:03 PM, Sturn said:

Well if I find the article I'm referring to I'll post the quotes here or take a picture of the text. It was an article on the snubfighters of the rebels. It wasn't just about Y-wings I'm certain of that. Do you have an original-era source on it only being the Y-wing that was old and refurbished and not the X-wing?

But, no sense in starting an argument over whose memory of the late 70's is better? Either way, if your memory is better, it doesn't really change my response to the OP. Even the new canon has the original X-wing as being rooted in the Clone War era like the Y-wing, not shiny and new during Episode IV as it was in legends. My original post regarding the X-wing was about its changing history as an old ship, to new, then back to old again, regardless of lack of panels specifically or not.

The X-Wing is only "rooted in the Clone wars" by the fact that it's a direct descendant of the Z-95 Headhunter , which was introduced during the Clone Wars. The T-65 itself didn't come out until much later.

On 1/20/2020 at 5:55 AM, Sith Interceptor said:

Hmm I was under the impression from everything ive read the x wings were prototypes that were stolen on Fresia and that's the canon, is their something else saying otherwise? The soonest Rebel models might of came out was that year and would of been few in number.

Nope. They were developed by Incom, and the engineers who designed it defected to the Rebellion, taking the plans with them.

On 1/20/2020 at 8:15 AM, lunitic501 said:

That's a legends story and as far as I know there isnt a cannon story of when or how the rebbelion got there hands on them yet. All we no is that prior to the last half of season 4 of rebels they never use x-wings then suddenly hera shows up in an episode flying/leading a squadron of x-wings.

I don't believe it's even Legends. All of the information, I've read, even in old EU sources, state that the engineers at Incom defected to the Rebellion and brought the plans for the T-65 with them.

4 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I don't believe it's even Legends. All of the information, I've read, even in old EU sources, state that the engineers at Incom defected to the Rebellion and brought the plans for the T-65 with them.

Its one of the missions from tbe old empire at war game. The way the game sets it up is the engineers want to defect but they need u to bust in and break them out while stealing the prototypes in the process and the mission takes place on tne planet fresia pretty sure there still income engineers