10 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

The more balanced the game is in extended, the more stale it is. Balance is great for longevity. Imbalance is great for excitement. Excitement keeps people playing.

Also, at this point, adding new ships isn't really enough to jazz up the meta. Luckily for us, there are so many ships available, that adding a couple more (of well designed, non-game-breaking ships) isn't really going to alter the meta overly much.

So, what Hyperspace allows FFG to do is create a solid, well-balanced (and thus kinda boring) game and jazz it up by creating a microcosm that breaks the rules without actually breaking the rules.

That last part is exactly "Why Hyperspace."

Fair enough.
Unfortunately, I don’t personally get in nearly enough table time for things to get stale. As such, Hyperspace decoupled from the “make things even for new players” ethos feels odd and arbitrary to me. However, I see that it could be something different for you. My opportunities to play in tournaments are few and far between, so it is a bummer to not be able to bring what makes me excited because of the format. However, I will live.

5 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

This just... isn't true?

It is true that they didn't nerf many of the top meta performers directly (or at least not by much, looking at you 1-pt Obi-Wan...)

That does not mean that they have not been effectively nerfed. The preponderance of 5-6x 3-attack ships that are coming into the meta now means that arc-dodgers will have a much harder time.

I dunno. To me, feels like FFG kicked a lot of cans down the road by just tossing stuff into Extended, and didn't really put much effort into making sure the old top-table stuff was correct.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I dunno. To me, feels like FFG kicked a lot of cans down the road by just tossing stuff into Extended, and didn't really put much effort into making sure the old top-table stuff was correct.

We’ll see whether that actually comes to pass this season.

I suspect not.

I think it probably is. Imp aces had proven they could beat low I jousting lists before and 5 T-65s isn’t much better than 5 Kihraxz.

Jedi got slammed, Vultures got tweaked, imp aces are set to dominate.

10 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

I think it probably is. Imp aces had proven they could beat low I jousting lists before and 5 T-65s isn’t much better than 5 Kihraxz.

Jedi got slammed, Vultures got tweaked, imp aces are set to dominate.

IMO, and it goes with all lists to a degree, is that 5 X wings and Imp aces are heavily RNG dependant. However unlikely, 2-3 x wings can delete Vader or Duchess. If the X Wings 1 forward to victory, it’s hard to avoid arcs, and it might be unlikely that 3 aces will initiative kill an X Wing before they fire back.

Maybe Wedge has Pavlov’s dogged me, combined with my pitiful green die ability, but I think 5 X’s are going to be tougher than people think.

5 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

IMO, and it goes with all lists to a degree, is that 5 X wings and Imp aces are heavily RNG dependant. However unlikely, 2-3 x wings can delete Vader or Duchess. If the X Wings 1 forward to victory, it’s hard to avoid arcs, and it might be unlikely that 3 aces will initiative kill an X Wing before they fire back.

Maybe Wedge has Pavlov’s dogged me, combined with my pitiful green die ability, but I think 5 X’s are going to be tougher than people think.

5X is a bit RNG dependent, but imperial aces are certainly not - they rely on strong dice mods to mitigate RNG.

If the Xs just 1fwd slowly, a good ace player should be able to stall and draw them into a favourable engagement to begin picking them off.

5X will be a tough list that players need to know how to handle (and it will act as a gatekeeper for weak lists) but it's certainly beatable by aces (and conveniently for aces, there is no wedge in 5X)

4 minutes ago, gadwag said:

5X is a bit RNG dependent, but imperial aces are certainly not - they rely on strong dice mods to mitigate RNG.

If the Xs just 1fwd slowly, a good ace player should be able to stall and draw them into a favourable engagement to begin picking them off.

5X will be a tough list that players need to know how to handle (and it will act as a gatekeeper for weak lists) but it's certainly beatable by aces (and conveniently for aces, there is no wedge in 5X)

Green die are green die. Try and mod blank results from multiple shots on target.

37 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

Green die are green die. Try and mod blank results from multiple shots on target.

Basically. Rule of thumb, the higher your green dice, the more arcs you need to dodge at a time. Because you're gonna' need those green dice. Badly.

1 hour ago, Archangelspiv said:

Green die are green die. Try and mod blank results from multiple shots on target.

Arc dodging, evade tokens, and killing a ship before it fires are all tools that ace players have to mitigate RNG. Good ace players aren't just landing in arc of 5 X-Wings and hoping to win on luck.

55 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Rule of thumb, the higher your green dice, the more arcs you need to dodge at a time. Because you're gonna' need those green dice. Badly.

That's not a great rule of thumb. TIE/fo fighters and Scyks have 3 green dice, but for their cost they are very resilient against multiple attacks. 7B Jedi, Rebel Han and RAC all roll less greens but all rely on arc dodging to survive.

Ship cost is a better (but not perfect) rule of thumb in this regard.

41 minutes ago, gadwag said:

Arc dodging, evade tokens, and killing a ship before it fires are all tools that ace players have to mitigate RNG. Good ace players aren't just landing in arc of 5 X-Wings and hoping to win on luck.

That's not a great rule of thumb. TIE/fo fighters and Scyks have 3 green dice, but for their cost they are very resilient against multiple attacks. 7B Jedi, Rebel Han and RAC all roll less greens but all rely on arc dodging to survive.

Ship cost is a better (but not perfect) rule of thumb in this regard.

In all your examples you have dismissed the skills of the generic player.

1 hour ago, Archangelspiv said:

In all your examples you have dismissed the skills of the generic player.

No, I'm just pointing out that aces have many tools to mitigate RNG, whereas 5X does not (5X seeks to mitigate RNG by having many ships, rather than a few effective, consistent ships).

If the 5X player overcomes the ace player's RNG mitigation strategies through skill (eg. blocking or overlapping arcs), that doesn't mean that the ace is RNG dependent, it means it was outflown.

I like flying generics and wrecking aces, don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to say that ace lists are not heavily RNG dependent - they are built explicitly to mitigate RNG.

6 hours ago, gadwag said:

7B Jedi, Rebel Han and RAC all roll less greens but all rely on arc dodging to survive. .

Uhm, arc dodging RAC? RAC relies on reinforce and 16 hp.

I think the saying goes, "Quantity is a quality all its own."

I certainly agree with the dice variability being the thing when you don't have a lot of mods. I think that is one of the big things with the choices they made for Hyperspace. They put a whole bunch more variance into it. It is going to be a weird meta. It will be interesting to see if the skill you need to get much influence on the dice will be enough.

I really like hyperspace at the moment, the restriction on popular lists is good and it's forcing players to try new/other options. I tried 8 Tie F/O yesterday to far better success than I anticipated. I would never have tried that if there were more options in Hyperspace.

15 hours ago, Cerebrawl said:

Uhm, arc dodging RAC? RAC relies on reinforce and 16 hp.

That's what it looks like on paper, but in practice, reinforce and 16HP won't keep RAC alive without a healthy amount of arc dodging.

For example: 5X will put 7 damage in through a reinforce . That gives RAC 3-4 turns before he goes down, and that's just not enough time to get value. That's why Dauntless and Moff Jerjerrod are such popular upgrades (yes, hull and shield are popular too, because they synergise with reinforce and shift the half health point). Back in 1.0, engine upgrade was stapled to every RAC. He is an arc dodger

25 minutes ago, gadwag said:

That's what it looks like on paper, but in practice, reinforce and 16HP won't keep RAC alive without a healthy amount of arc dodging.

For example: 5X will put 7 damage in through a reinforce . That gives RAC 3-4 turns before he goes down, and that's just not enough time to get value. That's why Dauntless and Moff Jerjerrod are such popular upgrades (yes, hull and shield are popular too, because they synergise with reinforce and shift the half health point). Back in 1.0, engine upgrade was stapled to every RAC. He is an arc dodger

Unfortunately Moff Jerjerrod isn't HS legal. So the Decimator is back to relying on Reinforce and a large health pool.

53 minutes ago, IridiumR6 said:

Unfortunately Moff Jerjerrod isn't HS legal. So the Decimator is back to relying on Reinforce and a large health pool.

Yes, we've strayed a bit from the original purpose of this post. Fortunately, dauntless is legal, which means RAC can pseudo-arc-dodge by bumping things