RIP Christopher Tolkien (1924-2020)
Fun fact that just occurred to me: If JRR was the grandfather of modern fantasy, then Chris was its uncle.
Was sad to hear this. His contributions were very important to me.
Hopefully the integrity of his father's works will still be kept after their guardian has passed.
Sad day that a legend has gone to be with his father. He did some great work with the lore we love.
I'll confess I was glad when he stepped down as the overseer of his father's estate, because it loosened up the licensing on some of the material. He had said he would never allow a movie based on anything from The Silmarillion, for instance, which is something I would love to see. I believe the new group approved the new Lord of the Rings TV show that's supposed to premiere next year.
That said, he was a good steward of the integrity of his father's works, and we wouldn't have The Silmarillion and many other examples of his father's writing without him. Sad to see him go.
Sad to read this... The fact that he continued the work of his father publishing many great stories, Silmarillion is by far my most loved one, makes me feel gratitude for him. RIP
“White shores, and far beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise . . .”
1 hour ago, Wandalf the Gizzard said:“White shores, and far beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise . . .”
That line about the swift sunrise always confused me. How can a sunrise be swift? And why would you want it to be swift? To get on with the day? And if it was a nice sunrise, wouldn't it be better to have a slower sunrise so you can enjoy it?
The other thing that struck me was maybe Gandalf was describing what would happen to him when he was killed, but not necessarily Pippin lol. Presumably Gandalf would return to Valinor. Who knows what happens to hobbits when their life is through?
24 minutes ago, Vince79 said:That line about the swift sunrise always confused me. How can a sunrise be swift? And why would you want it to be swift? To get on with the day? And if it was a nice sunrise, wouldn't it be better to have a slower sunrise so you can enjoy it?
The other thing that struck me was maybe Gandalf was describing what would happen to him when he was killed, but not necessarily Pippin lol. Presumably Gandalf would return to Valinor. Who knows what happens to hobbits when their life is through?
Maybe night-as-metaphor-for-bad-stuff is at use here.
In that case, you'd probably too busy with dealing with the bad stuff to contemplate the sunrise anyway.
R.I.P indeed. ' I go to my fathers, in whose mighty company I shall not now feel ashamed.'
I loved Christopher's editorial and restorative work and have read up to the Lost Road in the history of series. As well as the silmarillion, unfinished Tales and lost Tales 1 and 2. The Silmarillion is one of my favourite books ever. I do mean to finish off the history series.
I think that white shores quote came from a dream Tolkien had and was then written down in a letter. The Jackson team loved it and gave the lines to Gandalf.
I'm guessing the white shores are the shores of Dover and that far green Country is England. Hey that's where I'm from.
Middlearth has been with me since junior school and it has been with me ever since and always will be.
43 minutes ago, 987654321 said:Maybe night-as-metaphor-for-bad-stuff is at use here.
That has to be right, I hadn't even considered that. Took it too literally, I guess.
28 minutes ago, asgardianphil said:I think that white shores quote came from a dream Tolkien had and was then written down in a letter. The Jackson team loved it and gave the lines to Gandalf.
I don't know about the letter, but there is a similar quote about the white shores in the book at the end of Return of the King when Frodo is on the elven ship. The scene where Gandalf says it when talking to Pippin in Minas Tirith is only in the movie.
Here's the quote from the Grey Havens:
"And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise."
The oddity of the sunrise to me is not that it is swift, but that it he sees it far to the *West*, though having passed beyond the circles of this world the geography of sunrises is not predictable. Here's the description of Frodo's second dream in the house of Bombadil:
"Frodo heard a sweet singing running in his mind: a song that seemed to come like a pale light behind a grey rain-curtain, and growing stronger to turn the veil all to glass and silver, until at last it was rolled back, and a far green country opened before him under a swift sunrise."
3 hours ago, dalestephenson said:The oddity of the sunrise to me is not that it is swift, but that it he sees it far to the *West*
Hmm, curiouser and curiouser. It could be read that way, since it says the green country is "under" the swift sunrise. But I don't think it specifically says the sun rose in the west. I'd say the rain rolled back and the sun came up as usual, in the east, and it lit the green country. Though as you say, beyond middle earth, who knows how it works? Tolkien also talks a lot about hope being in the west, so maybe it's metaphorical in some way.
13 hours ago, dalestephenson said:The oddity of the sunrise to me is not that it is swift, but that it he sees it far to the *West*, though having passed beyond the circles of this world the geography of sunrises is not predictable.
It could also be the light of Aman and Valinor, passing through the Calacirya, the gap in the Pelor Mountains where the town of Tirion is situated, and spreading light on the Bay of Eldamar. And of course all the metaphors for Heaven/Avalon/the afterlife for which Valinor stands for.
Edited by Alonewolf87