21 hours ago, miguelj said:

No. /thread.

And thank God for that.

36 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

And thank God for that.

I'm not a big fan of ships being effectively unplayable, particularly in Hyperspace where the number of options are pretty limited. Once you take the Nantex away, the Seperatists are looking a very small pool of ships and list archetypes.

I think if Predator and Crack Shot were both in Hyperspace, the Nantex generics might have a place, but they're really hurting right now for anything useful to do.

5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The issue with Sun Fac is that - being I6 - to trigger his ability you MUST take either Maul or Dooku with Heightened Perception, as it's the only way CIS currently has to land that tractor token before Sun Fac shoots - Swarm Tactics is also no longer Hyperspace legal (and frankly chaining a Nantex to the not-enormously-manoeuvrable-by-comparison Infiltrator would be a bad plan anyway).

But yes, I figure that at 54 points, he's not a bad buy just as an Initiative 6 CIS Calibrated Laser Targeting Aethersprite analogue.

Yeah, my friend didn't have tractor beams in the list. He was messing with GG, Maul, and Sun Fac, but no Ensnare, no Tractor Beams. Just using Sun with Predator and Crackshot for a 57 point I6. I was skeptical but he won more than he lost in friendly games. I've not tried a Nantex without Ensnare myself, but I plan to. Just to see what, if anything, they can do without their signature talent.

13 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

It's an RZ-2, basically.

Big disagree! I think the similarities are mostly superficial, actually. The behavior that RZ2s thrive on is all beyond nantex's reach.

ex: One hard turn, barrel roll, boost to disengage

ex: Two hard turn, focus, rotate to rear

ex: Three bank, boost, rotate to rear

The nantex can't double repo, can't rotate to rear, and can't bank boost. Collectively, that eliminates like, the entire RZ2 playstyle. You can't make the same approaches, same disengages, or kite. They have upsides - you bring a bigger gun, if you land bullseye; you stress much less frequently; tractor self after bump, etc. But I don't think they're really comparable in how they handle.

Completely separate, but RZ2s have several other advantages that make the similar point cost rough- better talent options in the HS format (basically RZ2 want heroic vs uhhhhhh probably nothing for nantex; 3x i5 pilots and much, much better abilities in general, and much, much lower prices on those high inits.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

uhhhhhh probably nothing for nantex

Gravetic Deflection. Seriously - it's awesome.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

3x i5 pilots

2. Lu'Lo is no longer Hyperspace legal - so this one's a wash, or even in favour of the Nantex (1 x I5 & 1 x I6 vs 2 x I5, and I4 generics vs I3)

1 hour ago, svelok said:

much, much better abilities in general

This one I'll grant you with no hesitation.

Berwer Kret's pilot ability might work well in conjunction with a Techno Union Swarm, and Gorgol's ability is....potentially nice to have, but without ensnare Chertek and Sun Fac's pilot abilities are pretty much blank.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

and much, much lower prices on those high inits.

Well, Kret is 40 points, the same as Zizi Tlo, but Tali is quite a bit cheaper (36), and both have good pilot abilities not dependent on the rest of your squad. Sun Fac is eye-wateringly expensive but that's because he's one of a very select pool of I6 pilots still hyperspace legal.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

But I don't think they're really comparable in how they handle.

I've always found the Nantex' preferred fight without ensnare is a 'lance charge' with the bullseyes (especially against a large base target) then turret-sideways sustained circle-strafing at close quarters, which is very different to the RZ-2's shoot, overshoot, rotate, keep shooting as you disengage play style. There are similarities, but the two ships are different.

36 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Gravitic Deflection. Seriously - it's awesome.

So I'm curious what the lists with this look like. Do you just throw in a Nantex with one into another list so that its defense isn't hurt by using the ship ability, or is the whole squad running it to get huge defense rolls with tight flying?

28 minutes ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

So I'm curious what the lists with this look like. Do you just throw in a Nantex with one into another list so that its defense isn't hurt by using the ship ability, or is the whole squad running it to get huge defense rolls with tight flying?

Try "Bughouse Swarm". I think there's a thread discussing bits and pieces of it somewhere.

18 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

Try "Bughouse Swarm". I think there's a thread discussing bits and pieces of it somewhere.

That's actually mentioned in this thread, 5 Hive Guards with Gravitic Deflection. Thanks!

Re: Bughouse Swarm; this is what you're looking for:

26 minutes ago, Kleeg005 said:

Re: Bughouse Swarm; this is what you're looking for:

Is there any value to replacing one of them with Gorgol? It's not much of a difference but he does have the mod slot. I think TC is the only thing there worth taking right now. Being I2 instead of I3 is annoying. Could throw a tractor token out in a turn where you don't want to move the turret on another ship. I'm guessing the bid is worth more, even if it's not a deep bid.

It feels to me as if adding the Mod slot to Gorgol is the devs's way of testing how warping the addition might be, but on a pilot that is...not good. His pilot ability is situational at best - you're generally better off attacking with everything you have every chance you get, and these little guys do have excellent time-on-target. Gorgol is I think truly only useful in Epic - he's a godsend to Huge ships. I mean, try it out? Tell us how it goes. But I feel that matched initiative and consistent shooting is probably better.

8 hours ago, svelok said:

Big disagree! I think the similarities are mostly superficial, actually. The behavior that RZ2s thrive on is all beyond nantex's reach.

ex: One hard turn, barrel roll, boost to disengage

ex: Two hard turn, focus, rotate to rear

ex: Three bank, boost, rotate to rear

The nantex can't double repo, can't rotate to rear, and can't bank boost. Collectively, that eliminates like, the entire RZ2 playstyle. You can't make the same approaches, same disengages, or kite. They have upsides - you bring a bigger gun, if you land bullseye; you stress much less frequently; tractor self after bump, etc. But I don't think they're really comparable in how they handle.

Completely separate, but RZ2s have several other advantages that make the similar point cost rough- better talent options in the HS format (basically RZ2 want heroic vs uhhhhhh probably nothing for nantex; 3x i5 pilots and much, much better abilities in general, and much, much lower prices on those high inits.

Yeah, that's all fair. Nantex are going to fly way different, but there's probably handy things they can do that A-Wings can't. Side guns can be really nice, and that Bullseye.... mmm.

I still think the RZ-2 is the closest equivalent to the Nantex (in part because Nantex are so unlike anything else), but you're completely right that a lot of the specifics of A-Wings are really different.

3 hours ago, Kleeg005 said:

It feels to me as if adding the Mod slot to Gorgol is the devs's way of testing how warping the addition might be, but on a pilot that is...not good. His pilot ability is situational at best - you're generally better off attacking with everything you have every chance you get, and these little guys do have excellent time-on-target. Gorgol is I think truly only useful in Epic - he's a godsend to Huge ships. I mean, try it out? Tell us how it goes. But I feel that matched initiative and consistent shooting is probably better.

I'm 99.7% convinced that these had the Mod slot in playtesting. Probably two mod slots, given the large number of quickbuilds which had two Mods. A few unusual slots doesn't seem that rare, but that many? Almost surely, early playesting was completely busted on the Nantex.

22 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I'm 99.7% convinced that these had the Mod slot in playtesting. Probably two mod slots, given the large number of quickbuilds which had two Mods. A few unusual slots doesn't seem that rare, but that many? Almost surely, early playesting was completely busted on the Nantex.

Well, yes, of course. And I believe that they are now slowly testing the waters by reintroducing the slot to what is probably the most useless pilot. Maybe the slot will entice someone to try Gorgol. (One-two-three-not it!) I have to say that I am bloody curious what modification was so broken that they felt they had to nuke the slot right off the ship. Was it really Targeting Computer? Really? I mean, given the potential for Range1 bullseye onto a tractored opponent, maybe? But with all the nerfs to tractor effects, maybe that's not so bad any more? And here comes we the players as beta testers with Gorgol, of all things.

I strongly suspect that Afterburners are why the modification slot got taken off the Nantex...

13 minutes ago, Jarval said:

I strongly suspect that Afterburners are why the modification slot got taken off the Nantex...

My personal suspicion is stealth device. This is a ship which can reliably generate 2-3 defensive rerolls on every attack and starts at agility 3 ...

Afterburners would be pretty harsh too, though.

6 hours ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

or is the whole squad running it to get huge defense rolls with tight flying?

Remember you only all have to be ' in the attack arc' rather than in any specific range of one another, and the defender doesn't have to be one of the tractored ships. It's really flexible compared to stuff like selfless....

4 hours ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

Is there any value to replacing one of them with Gorgol? It's not much of a difference but he does have the mod slot. I think TC is the only thing there worth taking right now. Being I2 instead of I3 is annoying. Could throw a tractor token out in a turn where you don't want to move the turret on another ship. I'm guessing the bid is worth more, even if it's not a deep bid.

I dunno. Gorgols ability is nice but most people tell me he can only use it on a ship with face up damage, and he does give up his shot to do so. I think it's got to be worth trying: if he never uses either a lock or his ability you'll have to deal with one I2 pilot, but clearing a weapons malfunction without needing an action on a range one shot could be a huge deal.

Worth a try, right?

15 hours ago, Kleeg005 said:

Well, yes, of course. And I believe that they are now slowly testing the waters by reintroducing the slot to what is probably the most useless pilot. Maybe the slot will entice someone to try Gorgol. (One-two-three-not it!) I have to say that I am bloody curious what modification was so broken that they felt they had to nuke the slot right off the ship. Was it really Targeting Computer? Really? I mean, given the potential for Range1 bullseye onto a tractored opponent, maybe? But with all the nerfs to tractor effects, maybe that's not so bad any more? And here comes we the players as beta testers with Gorgol, of all things.

Stealth Device was most succinctly analyzed by @Magnus Grendel above.

Afterburners would also be horrible. I can just imagine the speed at which Sun Fac, for example, could engage, since he effectively gets two boosts from the ability and then spending an Afterburners charge, all at I6. Just imagine - Speed 5 straight, rotate the turret and gain the tractor token to boost 1 straight, use Afterburners to boost ANOTHER 1-straight (or left, or right), and then, after all that, gain a Focus.

As well, anything that increases his shields or hull means that he'll survive much longer than most other high-Initiative aces because of the ability combined with the agility.