FIRST - lets put aside all the "E9 sucks" or "E9 is awesome" debate. That's not the conversation I'm angling for here.

One of the most interesting developments to come out of the new three new movies is the state of the universe at the very end. The Empire is gone, the First Order is gone, Palpatine's sith armada is all blown up, the Republic was blown up, and the Jedi are all dead with Rey living on Tatooine. There's the civilian fleet that banded together to blow up Palpatine again, but that's more a Dunkirk-ish loose alliance of necessity than a functional government. Every major galactic government has been burnt to the ground, leaving every planet to fend for itself. In short, total anarchy.

. . .. actually, that's kind of refreshing.

Every minor player is going to be grabbing what they can. The hutts? Oh **** yes they're going to expand their boundaries and gobble up nearby worlds. The Corporate Sector Authority? They've got a strong if slightly-obsolete military and the greed to match, so they'll probably make a move. Infighting, alliances, power brokering, deals and betrayals as everyone grabs what they can while the grabbing is good. There will be cooler heads trying to call for peace, but they will almost certainly be shouted down.

The holonet? Nobody to pay the server expenses or maintain satellites, so that shuts down. BOSS has been operating for millennia among political turmoil, so they probably will be unaffected - but you can bet they will be buttoning up security to prevent the chaos from touching them. Surprisingly, I would expect that Black Sun and the other crime cartels would be trying to stabilize their own corner of the galaxy, as anarchy is bad for business. But even then they'd be throwing rivals - both in the organizations and without - under the bus. And there's at least one Star Destroyer with a Wave Motion Gun out loose in the galaxy - the one that blew up Girlfriend and Droid Guy's planet.

Any other thoughts on this chaos stew? Factors I didn't think of?

Well, Rey isn’t living on Tatooine. She simply went there to bury Luke’s and Leia’s lightsabers. This was confirmed by the writer, Chris Terrio.

Now, with that out of the way, It’s pretty obvious from what’s hinted at the end of the film that the New Republic would be rebuilt in short order. So I wouldn’t expect the “age of turmoil” you’re describing coming to pass, or, lasting very long if it did.

1 hour ago, Desslok said:

Any other thoughts on this chaos stew? Factors I didn't think of?

The next book, the next movie, the next comic, et al. Everything's subject to the next great idea (sarcasm intended). it will be whatever a writer decides the future is. Broom-Boy becomes the Jedi Child Emperor? Sure, why not? It is rather pointless to speculate and use "reason", as we've seen with TFA, TLJ, and RoS. Maybe I should have written, "There you go tryin' to use logic again!"

If you're going to get into it, well, did the First Order ALL retreat into this secret armada and then get destroyed? So the whole galaxy saw the FO LEAVE and abandon all of their seats of power? They'd of been celebrating and word would have spread fast! *Logic* (I think) would say most of the First order is still intact and on the outside of what went down.

I doubt the holonet goes away. That is like thinking roads will go away because there is no government. The Holonet is to useful. Local systems will maintain it. Which is likely how it was creates.

1 hour ago, Desslok said:

. . .. actually, that's kind of refreshing.

Agreed Best times to set a game campaign.

I would expect the Core Worlds to band together again, just as they formed the core of the earlier Republic. Probably too many economic and political co-dependencies to ignore (this guy from Coruscant owns those mines on Duro, this Duro owns those farms on Nubia, etc etc). Plus they are the manufacturing powerhouses, making most of the starships. Despite initial chaos (maybe lasting decades or even centuries), they would probably end up as the largest and most powerful bloc, and proceed, just as the Republic and Empires did before them, to gobble up resource planets and labour pools. How much resistance they encounter will depend on how organized the fractured political entities are, and maybe how much pressure those groups are under from other unsavoury groups (the Hutts, etc).

Whether it ends up as Republic 2.0 or Empire 2.0 will probably depend on how much influence moral guardians will have on the process. At this point they probably have almost nothing. The way I'd run it is public sentiment is still sour. Basically the Jedi have to prove themselves again, live amongst the people rather than in temples, and wander about like Kung Fu, solving problems and righting wrongs.

15 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I doubt the holonet goes away.

Agreed, local and regional nodes would still be too important for economics and politics. The second a trade deal between two groups opens up, they will link the nodes they control to facilitate transactions. How open these nodes are to public traffic will be up to the political powers in the regions. No doubt nefarious entities will maintain their own shadow 'nets to facilitate their own activities, and they might share these 'nets with people who pay, or allies, or just to destabilize a region.

I do agree the Hutts and Black Sun and the Pikes will take advantage. As will corporations. But like the Wild West. It will likely be more peaceful than people think.

I agree it's a great time to start a campaign. And if a new book or movie or comic comes out, and contradicts what a campaign has laid out, who cares?

There are definitely going to be some First Order supporters, maybe even First Order military assets left out of the destruction on Exegol, that try to impose "order" on as much space as they can claim.

Also, might be worth exploring the planets/sectors in the Unknown Region that supported and helped grow the First Order.

What happens to all the Force Users alluded to in TLJ? If Rey tries to set up a new Jedi order, that brings one set of advantages and challenges. If she pulls a Luke and nopes out of training new Jedi, then perhaps a different set of challenges.

What if there's another powerful Force User awakened by the events of the sequel trilogy that doesn't, for whatever reason, get trained by Rey? Could that person try to pull the galaxy together under their banner?

What about a charismatic leader that convinces a following that Force Users are essentially responsible for the past 70+ years of galactic warfare, and that Jedi, Sith, et.al. should be shunned and kept out of any kind of roles of authority?

Lots of fun possibilities to explore!

Based on our universe events I think we could reasonably assume the following would happen after E9.

1. Let the Power-Hungry Rule.

Populists with wide ranging support of the people will be those elected to power. Think the USA, UK, Turkey, etc. These rulers will consolidate power by pointing out they they are the only ones who can save the people. In the best cases these are benevolent overlords keeping the peace. In the worst cases complete power hungry warlords. On most worlds democracy will fall to authoritarianism to avoid chaos. Citizens agree to give up freedoms and rights to prevent another GD civil war. (By this point there have been 3 distinct civil wars during a 70 year period)

2. Weapons are Cheap. Lives are Cheaper.

Given all three recent civil wars there are plenty of weapons, battle droids, warships, fighters, and space tanks to go around. An AT-ST or a few TIE's would be easily stole or 'legitimately salvaged' from Empire or First Order wreckage. Pirates, local warlords, local governments and farmers defending their fields have plentiful cheap options for weapons and gear leftover by war. A governor asks the PC's to solve the local pirate problem. He neglects to mention that they are operating with a small fleet of TIE Interceptors they picked up from a ruined destroyer.

3. Enterprise is Controlled By Money

As TLJ mentioned, the people with the most money after three civil wars are the people who were making money on war. Now that there is no more war, these unscrupulous people start to invest in peacetime ventures. Everyone needs food and legitimate supplies. Some go into politics with their riches, others create monopolies and some work to control whole planetary economies.

4. Lets Make a Bargain.

As the Mandalorian suggested, without a government controlling the financial system between worlds, currency breaks down. Move one planet over and that Flan is worth nothing, but those old Imperial/New Republic credits are very respectable. Expect to barter a lot and money to fluctuate in value.

5. Death and Taxes

Congrats on getting to a new system! The local government has sent a squad of ships to inspect and tax your cargo! Hurray! Pay them and get to the planet and then find that the 'govenment' you paid was just the local warlord. Now you have to have your goods inspected and taxed by the real government. Hurray! Get ready for lots of perception check to tell if this person is really the tax collector or just a pirate. After all they both will tax you, but the collector sends you to jail if you don't pay, the pirate will kill you.

14 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

It’s pretty obvious from what’s hinted at the end of the film that the New Republic would be rebuilt in short order.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Looking at the wookiepedia summation for the New Republic, it seems pretty definitive that the Republic collapsed after their planets got blown up. Based on what we see in the real world, putting together a functioning government from chaos is difficult at best, and that's just one country. Plus adding in the fact that the Republic (be it old, new or legends) is dysfunctional at the best of times, it implies to me that there will be no galaxy spanning government - at least for a while.

14 hours ago, DurosSpacer said:

did the First Order ALL retreat into this secret armada and then get destroyed?

While I'll admit that completely throwing all-in with Palpatine's fleet seems tactically bad, it looks like that's what happened, that Moff Richard Grant bet all the First Order's chips on Sheev's roll of the dice. The problem we're working from here is that we don't know the size and scope of the first order. Maybe they're a small enough organization to be able to pull all their forces out of the field like that?

13 hours ago, whafrog said:

How open these nodes are to public traffic will be up to the political powers in the regions.

Fair point - so the holonet might wobble for a little bit (or is in the process of wobbling ever since the Republic blown up), but should bounce back - perhaps with reduced functionality - soon enough.

13 hours ago, Daeglan said:

It will likely be more peaceful than people think.

Yeah, but peaceful is boring!

18 minutes ago, Desslok said:

Maybe yes, maybe no. Looking at the wookiepedia summation for the New Republic, it seems pretty definitive that the Republic collapsed after their planets got blown up. Based on what we see in the real world, putting together a functioning government from chaos is difficult at best, and that's just one country. Plus adding in the fact that the Republic (be it old, new or legends) is dysfunctional at the best of times, it implies to me that there will be no galaxy spanning government - at least for a while.

While I'll admit that completely throwing all-in with Palpatine's fleet seems tactically bad, it looks like that's what happened, that Moff Richard Grant bet all the First Order's chips on Sheev's roll of the dice. The problem we're working from here is that we don't know the size and scope of the first order. Maybe they're a small enough organization to be able to pull all their forces out of the field like that?

Fair point - so the holonet might wobble for a little bit (or is in the process of wobbling ever since the Republic blown up), but should bounce back - perhaps with reduced functionality - soon enough.

Yeah, but peaceful is boring!

Take a look at the History of city states combining into countries. That is likely where we are at. Also look at Post Civil War South. Those are the kinds of problems you would see.

Even if Moff Richard Grant through all in with Sheev moving all those troops would take time so when the head is cut off it leaves a bunch of troops in the lurch and ready for anyone strong enough and of the right persuasion.

20 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Well, Rey isn’t living on Tatooine. She simply went there to bury Luke’s and Leia’s lightsabers. This was confirmed by the writer, Chris Terrio.

I presume that after she has left Luke's old home and when either decades or centuries have passed, another young scavenger or wanderer with a dream may find what she buried...

Maybe not even to save the galaxy and/or bring balance to the Force again, but simply find something within themselves.

3 minutes ago, Voltron64 said:

I presume that after she has left Luke's old home and when either decades or centuries have passed, another young scavenger or wanderer with a dream may find what she buried...

Maybe not even to save the galaxy and/or bring balance to the Force again, but simply find something within themselves.

Or a Jawa. I call BS to them not having stripped that place clean! XD (jesting)

10 minutes ago, Voltron64 said:

I presume that after she has left Luke's old home and when either decades or centuries have passed, another young scavenger or wanderer with a dream may find what she buried...

More likely it'll be found by a Jawa, no longer than an hour or so after she leaves.

4 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

More likely it'll be found by a Jawa, no longer than an hour or so after she leaves.

They were already stripping a ship minutes after it crashed....

Gangs like the Jesse James Gang and Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid are other examples of the kinds of criminal activity available to create adventures.

21 hours ago, DurosSpacer said:

The next book, the next movie, the next comic, et al. Everything's subject to the next great idea (sarcasm intended). it will be whatever a writer decides the future is. Broom-Boy becomes the Jedi Child Emperor? Sure, why not? It is rather pointless to speculate and use "reason", as we've seen with TFA, TLJ, and RoS. Maybe I should have written, "There you go tryin' to use logic again!"

If you're going to get into it, well, did the First Order ALL retreat into this secret armada and then get destroyed? So the whole galaxy saw the FO LEAVE and abandon all of their seats of power? They'd of been celebrating and word would have spread fast! *Logic* (I think) would say most of the First order is still intact and on the outside of what went down.

Based upon the movie, the First Order had individual Resurgent -class Star Destroyers stationed in orbit over various planets throughout the galaxy, but, were they all attacked and shot down, en-mass once news of the defeat of the main fleet on Exegol spread. We see this at the end of the movie, with a montage of multiple planets with the ships falling from orbit in flames .

15 hours ago, JEL said:

I agree it's a great time to start a campaign. And if a new book or movie or comic comes out, and contradicts what a campaign has laid out, who cares?

There are definitely going to be some First Order supporters, maybe even First Order military assets left out of the destruction on Exegol, that try to impose "order" on as much space as they can claim.

Also, might be worth exploring the planets/sectors in the Unknown Region that supported and helped grow the First Order.

What happens to all the Force Users alluded to in TLJ? If Rey tries to set up a new Jedi order, that brings one set of advantages and challenges. If she pulls a Luke and nopes out of training new Jedi, then perhaps a different set of challenges.

What if there's another powerful Force User awakened by the events of the sequel trilogy that doesn't, for whatever reason, get trained by Rey? Could that person try to pull the galaxy together under their banner?

What about a charismatic leader that convinces a following that Force Users are essentially responsible for the past 70+ years of galactic warfare, and that Jedi, Sith, et.al. should be shunned and kept out of any kind of roles of authority?

Lots of fun possibilities to explore!

I highly doubt that, given the methods the First Order used to try and cease power. They were usurpers. The Centrists that had originally supported the First Order had already left the Republic and officially joined the First Order before the destruction of Hosnian Prime. They would have all been defeated during the war, and any remaining would likely have been arrested for treason soon after.

6 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Take a look at the History of city states combining into countries. That is likely where we are at. Also look at Post Civil War South. Those are the kinds of problems you would see.

Even if Moff Richard Grant through all in with Sheev moving all those troops would take time so when the head is cut off it leaves a bunch of troops in the lurch and ready for anyone strong enough and of the right persuasion.

Given how quickly the New Republic government was put together after the fall of the Empire, I doubt it'll take very long to re-establish at least a working provisional government, if not a full government.

23 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Well, Rey isn’t living on Tatooine. She simply went there to bury Luke’s and Leia’s lightsabers. This was confirmed by the writer, Chris Terrio.

Now, with that out of the way, It’s pretty obvious from what’s hinted at the end of the film that the New Republic would be rebuilt in short order. So I wouldn’t expect the “age of turmoil” you’re describing coming to pass, or, lasting very long if it did.

I believe a New Republic would be rebuilt in short order, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't have an age of turmoil.

At this point you are talking First Order remnants, Imperial Remnants, New Republic Remnant, Resistance Remnant, and all the various criminal factions at play. While some would certaintly rush to reestablish the New Republic, others may not be so keen on the idea. Massive civil war, the old Republic turned into the Empire, galactic war wages, the Empire falls, the New Republic is formed, the New Republic is shattered, the Resistance just barely stops the First Order...some worlds may not wish to be a part of this ongoing drama fest. New factions, even restored separatist factions may sprout up. Some worlds may seek independence. New warlords or criminal factions may sprout up.

What you have after Ep9 is a MASSIVE galaxy wide power vacuum. Reforming a New Republic is going to be a messy, time consuming ordeal. And without any sort of military force to protect it's members, criminal factions and various warlords are going to cause massive problems. The New Republic isn't going to just happen over night. Various members are going to have various ideals and all those things will need to be hammered out before they agree on anything and can move forward. That conflict will likely drive others out that are tired of decades of galactic instability. I mean honestly, who's to say there isn't yet another Emperor building yet another WMD or fleet or army that is bigger or more evil than the last. Or maybe there's some other Imperial copy cat faction waiting to blow up a couple more planets. Maybe it's just best to sit on the sidelines for a couple decades and see how things play out eh?

Honestly, post Ep9 leaves us with the most open world Star Wars universe to dabble in from an RPG standpoint. You can literally throw anything from any era into the game and it would make sense. The galaxy could be in massive turmoil with everyone trying to eek out what power they can be that through crime, military power, political wrangling, or crazy planet destroying constructs.

Beyond all that, who's going to lead the reconstructive efforts. They ostracized Leia due to her lineage, not like Rey is going to win a lot of favor with her heritage. The Resistance is basically wiped out. The majority of the Republics leadership was wiped out. Who has the clout, experience, knowledge, and power to piece that all together.

The New Republic “remnant” and “Resistance”, are pretty much the same thing.

As for the First Order remnant, given that the First Order itself wasn’t very large to begin with, and was only successful because of the fear instilled by the destruction of Hosnian Prime by Starkiller Base, I conclude, based upon the end of ROS, that there was no First Order “remnant” left. The same can probably be said of the Imperial remnant. Those that hadn’t joined the First Order already had likely fully integrated into the New Republic by the time of the Battle of Starkiller Base.

I'd think you would end up with a bunch of galactic kingdoms/nations of varying size.

Hutt space would definitely be one. The Corporate Sector would be one. Maybe a New New Republic might form in the core worlds. Maybe some worlds might band together for round 2 of the Confederacy of Independent Systems. Whatever is left of the First Order might try to band together in the Outer Rim.

Black Sun, the Pykes, other syndicates would grab up worlds. Tell that to Kanjiklub.

Other worlds might try to be independent free-states.

It would be a cool setting with a lot of storytelling and gaming ideas. A target-rich environment.

7 minutes ago, RLogue177 said:

I'd think you would end up with a bunch of galactic kingdoms/nations of varying size.

Hutt space would definitely be one. The Corporate Sector would be one. Maybe a New New Republic might form in the core worlds. Maybe some worlds might band together for round 2 of the Confederacy of Independent Systems. Whatever is left of the First Order might try to band together in the Outer Rim.

Black Sun, the Pykes, other syndicates would grab up worlds. Tell that to Kanjiklub.

Other worlds might try to be independent free-states.

It would be a cool setting with a lot of storytelling and gaming ideas. A target-rich environment.

With lots of room for wandering angel jedi and wandering sith devils.

On 1/13/2020 at 3:41 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

The New Republic “remnant” and “Resistance”, are pretty much the same thing.

To be fair, the world building for these latest three have been kind of shite. It also doesn't help matters that JJ doesn't know that words have definitions, where "Resistance" in the real world - like say the french resistance in WWII - was a partisan group behind enemy lines, often working on their own. JJ's version of a Resistance is some kind of rebellion/resistance hibred with support and sanction from the Republic.

On 1/13/2020 at 3:07 PM, kmanweiss said:

I believe a New Republic would be rebuilt in short order

The other question I have - when we say short order, what would we consider "short" to be? When you're talking about a civilization that has been around for 6,000+ years, a short time could be 200 years - a drop in the bucket in the life of the Republic, but a **** of a long period to your average man on the street.

Consider something "simple" like recovering from a natural disaster - it's been what, 2 years now since Puerto Rico was clobbered by a hurricane and they're still a mess? Now granted, the Evil Orange Man is doing his level best to cockblock Puerto Rico at every turn, but it's still been a slow process. Putting together a functioning galactic government? That's probably a decade or two, depending on where you want to draw the line at 'functioning'.

24 minutes ago, Desslok said:

To be fair, the world building for these latest three have been kind of shite. It also doesn't help matters that JJ doesn't know that words have definitions, where "Resistance" in the real world - like say the french resistance in WWII - was a partisan group behind enemy lines, often working on their own. JJ's version of a Resistance is some kind of rebellion/resistance hibred with support and sanction from the Republic.

The other question I have - when we say short order, what would we consider "short" to be? When you're talking about a civilization that has been around for 6,000+ years, a short time could be 200 years - a drop in the bucket in the life of the Republic, but a **** of a long period to your average man on the street.

Consider something "simple" like recovering from a natural disaster - it's been what, 2 years now since Puerto Rico was clobbered by a hurricane and they're still a mess? Now granted, the Evil Orange Man is doing his level best to cockblock Puerto Rico at every turn, but it's still been a slow process. Putting together a functioning galactic government? That's probably a decade or two, depending on where you want to draw the line at 'functioning'.

Given that it took the Rebellion to reorganize into a working government within a year or so ... I'd say it wouldn't take the Resistance to take much longer, if any.

1 hour ago, Desslok said:

To be fair, the world building for these latest three have been kind of shite. It also doesn't help matters that JJ doesn't know that words have definitions, where "Resistance" in the real world - like say the french resistance in WWII - was a partisan group behind enemy lines, often working on their own. JJ's version of a Resistance is some kind of rebellion/resistance hibred with support and sanction from the Republic.

Leia was leading a proactive "insurgency" rather than a traditional "resistance" movement. Her fighters are partisans, but they aren't necessarily rebels. To whit, they are "an irregular military force formed to oppose control of an area by a foreign power or by an army of occupation by some kind of insurgent activity." Partisans can be the field elements of traditional resistance groups, but can also be insurgent guerrilla forces (foreign fighters) funded and supplied by state or private actors. My feeling from watching the films is that her "Resistance" is the latter rather than the former.

Its hard to know because we aren't actually told much about the state of affairs between the New Republic and First Order, but it appears the New Republic was not actually occupied by the First Order and that Leia was receiving support from worlds who wanted to keep it that way. Indeed, while Hosnian Prime was destroyed, the First Order was just getting ready to launch a large scale invasion and make its play for control of the galaxy in Episode 9. For me, that made the re-run of the victory celebrations at the end of Jedi a bit confusing. It wasn't clear to me that the New Republic had even ceased to exist or that there weren't large swaths of the galaxy that needed liberating.

The First Order never actually launched its massive invasion with its fleet of planet killing Star Destroyers.

13 minutes ago, Vondy said:

Leia was leading a proactive "insurgency" rather than a traditional "resistance" movement. Her fighters are partisans, but they aren't necessarily rebels. To whit, they are "an irregular military force formed to oppose control of an area by a foreign power or by an army of occupation by some kind of insurgent activity." Partisans can be the field elements of traditional resistance groups, but can also be insurgent guerrilla forces (foreign fighters) funded and supplied by state or private actors. My feeling from watching the films is that her "Resistance" is the latter rather than the former.

Its hard to know because we aren't actually told much about the state of affairs between the New Republic and First Order, but it appears the New Republic was not actually occupied by the First Order and that Leia was receiving support from worlds who wanted to keep it that way. Indeed, while Hosnian Prime was destroyed, the First Order was just getting ready to launch a large scale invasion and make its play for control of the galaxy in Episode 9. For me, that made the re-run of the victory celebrations at the end of Jedi a bit confusing. It wasn't clear to me that the New Republic had even ceased to exist or that there weren't large swaths of the galaxy that needed liberating.

The First Order never actually launched its massive invasion with its fleet of planet killing Star Destroyers.

According to the books and comics, the First Order had launched several "occupation" campaigns on a number of worlds, including core worlds, such as Corelia, as well as retaliatory attacks on worlds found supporting the Resistance. In fact, a First Order occupied Corellia is the mission that Hondo Ohnaka sends riders on the Millenium Falcon ride at Galaxy's Edge to undertake. :

Quote

First Order Edit

At some point, the First Order had a presence on Corellia. Around the time of the mission to Batuu , the smuggler Hondo Ohnaka led a raid against a First Order cargo train , using the Millennium Falcon to steal a shipment of coaxium from the train and deliver it to the Resistance . ^[17]

So, yeah, the First Order had already begun their campaign of galactic conquest almost immediately after the battle of Starkiller Base.

1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

According to the books and comics, the First Order had launched several "occupation" campaigns on a number of worlds, including core worlds, such as Corelia, as well as retaliatory attacks on worlds found supporting the Resistance. In fact, a First Order occupied Corellia is the mission that Hondo Ohnaka sends riders on the Millenium Falcon ride at Galaxy's Edge to undertake. :

So, yeah, the First Order had already begun their campaign of galactic conquest almost immediately after the battle of Starkiller Base.

Nice to know, though I would have preferred we be told that in 1-2 lines of dialogue in the movies. The expectation / requirement that viewers read a book or comic to have the most basic facts is not one that pleases me. That said, I would point out that Leia's "Resistance" appeared very well-established when we meet them in TFA so its reasonable to assume she had been preparing for an insurgency against the First Order well before they made significant inroads against the New Republic. That said, the the FO never completed their campaign of conquest and never got their big fleet out to cow the galaxy so the point remains that there were likely a goodly number of words who were still free and prosperous when the credits rolled on Episode XIII.