30 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Poe+rookies, like all Poe lists that I've tried, is a "protect the queen" playstyle, whose win condition boils down to, "keep this thing alive until the end game...and hopefully everything works out after that".

I don't think that's true in this case. Poe + 3A often couldn't punish enough if the opponent went after Poe. They also couldn't necessarily close out a game if Poe went down. I've always played Poe very risk averse, but I've found I can safely put him in a position to trade if the Rookies have the numbers to close things out. Sure, you want Poe alive, but don't discount the 3-die gun and toughness of the Rookies.

An example from a small kit tourney over the weekend. I had a beat up Poe and all three rookies (in varying states of damage) against a 2-3 hull Vader and (I think?) 1-shield Sai. I had the option to disengage with Poe but chose to turn him into Sai for a big hit, possibly losing Poe in exchange. I made that choice because I knew the Rookies could bully a hurt Vader and that Sai wouldn't be relevant enough for a few turns. I'd not have done that with 3A. Vader could easily initiative kill a beat up A-Wing, with little to no damage in return.

So, yeah, I don't know. It's way early. We're squarely in "i don't believe you, prove it" territory. I just think it's a fundamental pivot to now include Poe. Also, I concede 3 Rookies probably isn't the answer, but Zizi slots in there very nicely.

I played Poe and 3 A this week, it was OK but very soft-hitting. I fired a proton torpedo and all 3 A Wings at a Tie SF and it still lived.

When Zizi comes out I'd assess the Poe/AAA again, doesn't seem very good for now.

How do you usually setup the 4 T70s with Poe... block and a flanker or all spread out?

17 minutes ago, ayedubbleyoo said:

How do you usually setup the 4 T70s with Poe... block and a flanker or all spread out?

Usually 2 rookies in one corner (corner being kind of relative to obstacle placement and varies), with one inside of them (usually just inside a cornered-ish obstacle). Poe varies depending on matchup/bid/etc. I like to leave the rookies room to move in if facing a bad joust (not often) or zoom up the board edge to generate kind of a spread (like, outside guy goes 4-forward boost, next 3-forward maybe barrel roll, next 1-2 forward depending on obstacles). Poe is very reactionary.

The goal is to establish a kind of crescent moon shape on engagement.

x

x

x x

That can get complicated if they want to turn in. I need to work on that, because that sometimes ends up a conga line, which I don't like at all.

So I tried out 4 heroic red's with hull upgrade today.

Took on Kylo, Quickdraw and Vonreg.

8 hull x wings are no joke, and while my opponent isn't the best ace player, I really enjoyed the list (won losing 2 and a half x wings).

I also tried out Greer, Cova with Leia, black sq ace and Kara Kun (just because I wanted to try her out). I'm quite a fan of running a list of matching pilot skills

2nd list has more tricks, but the 4 reds feels more efficient, if only I wasn't out of practice with formation flying...

3 hours ago, nurglez said:

2nd list has more tricks, but the 4 reds feels more efficient, if only I wasn't out of practice with formation flying...

Don't feel like you have to fly formation. You probably want to be close-ish so that you're getting shots with everyone, but there's no reason to stay boxy.

On 1/12/2020 at 4:36 PM, theBitterFig said:

Poe + 3 Blues.

How about a Tractor beam on Poe? It fits, removes any damage Poe would make, but can give up to 3 additional damage from Blues with lowered agility of the enemy ship.

7 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Don't feel like you have to fly formation. You probably want to be close-ish so that you're getting shots with everyone, but there's no reason to stay boxy.

True, I have had a few games with 5 deadmans Khiraxz, and I guess they mostly fly similar, only without the R1 ouch zone of your wingmates ha.

On 1/16/2020 at 5:21 AM, RealSpecter said:

How about a Tractor beam on Poe? It fits, removes any damage Poe would make, but can give up to 3 additional damage from Blues with lowered agility of the enemy ship.

That could work. Tractor can add even more damage, if you're able to move a ship a range-band closer. And then there's the whole "strand someone on a rock" thing. I'm less sold after the tractor revisions, but yeah, seems plausible.

*edit* also noteworthy about Tractor Poe: 3 dice, even with S-Foils closed. If Poe has closed wings to gain access to a barrel roll, having a 3-dice rather than 2-dice weapon is handy.

So, 5As is better than ever? Somebody explain to me what's up.

54 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

So, 5As is better than ever? Somebody explain to me what's up.

Maybe in another topic? This one is about 4 X-wing lists

But generally - there is a new, great pilot coming in Hotshots pack and 5As are still hyperspace legal, while almost all the other meta defining squadrons got banned.

Before the points and FAQ hit I was testing Bastian, Temmin and Jess with Rose carrying 3po support.

Now that 3po is no longer hyperspace legal, and the composure trick has been errata'd, I think I'm going to take quad red experts with heroic and optics. It leaves 4 points so I'm unsure if I want to spend them on a couple of R4s or just carry a bid... but at I3 it seems a bit meaningless.

I did think about retaining Jess instead of one red as it fits, and Jess is slightly superior maths wise, but I think the red expert is more consistent. It also means that they don't have to stick together to give Jess rerolls and therefore it's more unpredictable.

2 hours ago, KCDodger said:

So, 5As is better than ever? Somebody explain to me what's up.

Turns out, boosting turrets is pretty good.

There's a tonne in this thread.

The key seems to be the incredible mobility (both for blocking and arc dodging), the ability to shoot front or back means they'll make a lot of attacks, plus consistent attack rolls due to Advanced Optics. After an initial success, there were small nerfs to almost all pilots. With the recent update, the nerfs got rolled back on the generics, so they're back to 32 and 34. Combined with two new pilots, the 5A seems like it's in great shape. I can't say better than ever, since Hyperspace lost Crack Shot, and the L'ulo nerf has knocked him out of realistic usage, but really solid.

5 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Turns out, boosting turrets is pretty good.

There's a tonne in this thread.

The key seems to be the incredible mobility (both for blocking and arc dodging), the ability to shoot front or back means they'll make a lot of attacks, plus consistent attack rolls due to Advanced Optics. After an initial success, there were small nerfs to almost all pilots. With the recent update, the nerfs got rolled back on the generics, so they're back to 32 and 34. Combined with two new pilots, the 5A seems like it's in great shape. I can't say better than ever, since Hyperspace lost Crack Shot, and the L'ulo nerf has knocked him out of realistic usage, but really solid.

Huh, alright. So just about the same as they were before, minus L'ulo and NPE upgrade 2019 Crackshot. Thanks!

Ran three reps with Hyperspace Bastian+B1, x3Outmaneuver Reds.

2 & 1 with a 1 decent win, one very close win and one close loss.

Luke is a real deal in hyperspace, and he's got plenty to ride shotgun between Falcons and efficient B's.

Hence the verdict:

All offense I3s are not the answer in an I4+ hyperspace meta. You NEED defensive efficiency, or more bodies.

I know that sounds like a silly claim after three reps, but I very much know what I'm doing with T70s and Outmaneuver, and this wasn't efficient enough against efficiency aces like Luke or Escort Swarm (5x).

My trick with Bastian was super fun and effective, but only meaningful in one out of three games and actually a negative factor in the game where I misplayed him.

I'm tabling this build in favor of 4 Heroic/Hull Reds (" Thicc Reds "), if I'm bringing Quad T70s in Wave 6 hyperspace.

(6+ opportunities to use defensive heroic in my three games, and three would have been modded - if I had brought heroic, although whacking Luke with Outmaneuver a couple times felt really nice ... So feel free to try it out.)

9 hours ago, KCDodger said:

Huh, alright. So just about the same as they were before, minus L'ulo and NPE upgrade 2019 Crackshot. Thanks!

Just pointing out that Lulo was not part of the team for a long time. And that Zizi is much better.

2 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Ran three reps with Hyperspace Bastian+B1, x3Outmaneuver Reds.

2 & 1 with a 1 decent win, one very close win and one close loss.

Luke is a real deal in hyperspace, and he's got plenty to ride shotgun between Falcons and efficient B's.

Hence the verdict:

All offense I3s are not the answer in an I4+ hyperspace meta. You NEED defensive efficiency, or more bodies.

I know that sounds like a silly claim after three reps, but I very much know what I'm doing with T70s and Outmaneuver, and this wasn't efficient enough against efficiency aces like Luke or Escort Swarm (5x).

My trick with Bastian was super fun and effective, but only meaningful in one out of three games and actually a negative factor in the game where I misplayed him.

I'm tabling this build in favor of 4 Heroic/Hull Reds (" Thicc Reds "), if I'm bringing Quad T70s in Wave 6 hyperspace.

(6+ opportunities to use defensive heroic in my three games, and three would have been modded - if I had brought heroic, although whacking Luke with Outmaneuver a couple times felt really nice ... So feel free to try it out.)

If you think the meta has switched to I4, are Blacks something that should be looked at instead of Experts?

We had our local team tournament yesterday (Missouriclorian), extended format. I went 5-0 with R4/Heroic Poe and three BB astromech Blue Squadron Rookies. Played against:

- 7B Obi/ICT Broadside/Arc/Torrent x2

- RAC/Vader (Vader moving last)

- Krennic Jendon/Whisper/Soontir (Soontir moving last with optimized prototype)

- ICT, Proton Bomb Y-Wing x2/Barrage, Seismic, Sabine Warden/Jake/Blount

- Finn, Title Rey/heroic RSE/Vi/Heroic L’ulo

The BB astros aren’t Hyperspace legal, so it’d play a little different there, because they do help create position prediction confusion and can generate some surprising kill boxes.

Block/pew, block/pew, block/pew, ace is pretty darn good.

I meant to add that I played this same list in two 3-round kit tournies, both extended, the previous week to test it. Went 2–1 in both of those, so it has a 9-2 tourney record.

I don’t think one can really declare too much from these events, because these aren’t necessarily high stakes events. Good players brought good stuff, but it’s rounds 4-6 of a big event Swiss when things get tough.

30 minutes ago, gennataos said:

The BB astros aren’t Hyperspace legal, so it’d play a little different there, because they do help create position prediction confusion and can generate some surprising kill boxes.

BB Astromechs are sweet.

31 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Block/pew, block/pew, block/pew, ace is pretty darn good.

Hard-hitting, somewhat tanky blockers seem way better on table than they appear on paper.

4 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I don’t think one can really declare too much from these events, other than it is good enough to be an option.

For the right player, at least. I feel like, there are Poe players, and there are Fenn Rau players. I'm a Fenn Rau player. I try to fly Poe even in FlyCasual, and I get crushed. I don't get Poe, I don't understand how to fly him, I am just not a Poe player. Doesn't mean he's bad, he's just not for me. I'd take Fenn + Recruits any time, no judgement over what a better list is, just what suits me and how I play.

But to all the Poe players out there, go for it!

7 hours ago, Flurpy said:

If you think the meta has switched to I4, are Blacks something that should be looked at instead of Experts?

I thought about that thoroughly afterwards.

The Blacks might've won harder vs everyone's generics, but would've been just as bad against the Boba/Luke/Falcon stuff that's gonna be rampant.

Also, Heroic Blacks leave you with very little room to build. I'd consider dropping some R4s just to bid against a few matchups, but then it'd be even worse against the aces.

Also, I'd be very sad to face 4 skulls. I just think they can bid better and/or swap one for Kad and just do better overall.

Had league night today. Ran Cova XXX. Won all three games against generic swarm. Most interesting one was when I forced my mate flying Avenger Swarm to do a test run with just a straight up joust. Turns out initiative killing is quite neat.

I think all these lists will be made or broken based on our ability to fly against aces, generics arent that scary as I initially thought.

I'd give Thicc Reds the best shelf life for hyperspace QuadTs.

Give it a month, and people are gonna figure out Luke doesn't like being PS killed by Poe and H.Percep. Dooku.

Then we'll see H.Percep Luke dominate.

Then we'll see H.Percep Obi rise to the challenge.

Then maybe it'll rotate back to Sense+Efficiency blocking.

...then hopefully, the Devs will see that any force user is better than a static I6 pilot because they can PS kill said aces if they have access to H.Percep.

..........then maybe Poe will finally drop a couple points. Haha.

So I’ve been staring hard at the 4X lists. Mainly torn between these 2:

(68) Poe Dameron [T-70 X-wing]
(2) R4 Astromech
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 71

(42) Blue Squadron Rookie [T-70 X-wing]
(1) BB Astromech
(0) Integrated S-foils
Points: 43

(42) Blue Squadron Rookie [T-70 X-wing]
(1) BB Astromech
(0) Integrated S-foils
Points: 43

(42) Blue Squadron Rookie [T-70 X-wing]
(1) BB Astromech
(0) Integrated S-foils
Points: 43

Total points: 200

and

4X

(55) Nien Nunb [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Elusive
(5) Pattern Analyzer
(2) Black One
Points: 65

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

Total points: 200

41 minutes ago, battlestarbill said:

So I’ve been staring hard at the 4X lists. Mainly torn between these 2:

I'm a bit skeptical of any Extended Resistance that doesn't include Rey Falcon, but @gennataos just posted some enlightening reps with your list "A" with Poe and BB.Rookies.

I think Nien & Reds have a higher floor, but Poe might have a Higher ceiling if you can get the reps.

There's a LOT of nasty meta wrenches waiting to get thrown in Extended.

Fair enough. Honestly haven’t put Rey on the table yet, so not really sure what the best way to fly it is. I’m sure there’s some degenerate things in extended, but for most of the time my local scene is pretty casual, tho we on occasion have the Toronto system open winner come Out for events