A few of these pop up, but it takes so much digging through past posts to find the old ones, and with the points changes, a lot of the old discussion is irrelevant anyhow.

• Blue Squadron Rookie (42)
  • The biggest concern here, IMHO, is that they just get outclassed by 5 T-65 and other recently-cheaper ships, due to being lower Init and with fewer guns.
  • Hyperspace: I'm not sold on it as a spam ship in Hyperspace. Loss of BB Astromech removes a lot of options . BBs are Hyperspace now . There aren't really great ways to fill up the 8 points.
    • Best I can think of is Advanced Optics + R5 Astromech (50), for a hybrid of consistency and repair, but I don't like it.
    • The other option is to not fill to 50, and use the cheapness.
      • Case in point: Poe + 3 Blues. If anyone out there wants to fill in on this list, go for it. It's a whole different kettle of fish.
        • My first thought is that there's a grand total of 4 points in the list, presuming R4 Poe and naked Blues.
          • Heroic seems like an easy fill on Poe. Nothing else seems worth it in Hyperspace, and I'd guess that Heroic is worth more than bid.
          • Other options for the last 3 points would be bid, Black One on Poe, or BB Astromechs on the Blues (extended only).
  • Extended: Again, Seems awkward to fill 8 points.
    • BB Astromech + Tractor Beam + Advanced Optics (50). My old dirty joke version of the list gets Optics now. I guess that's nice.
    • BB Astromech + Proton Rockets ( 50 49 ). That's a big bullseye attack, probably a hair better than the old BB+HLC that they could take before, but I'm not really sold.
    • BB Astromech + Primed Thrusters (48). That's decent mobility, but who cares at Init 1?
    • BB Astromech + Shield Upgrade (49). Again, not really feeling it, compared to other options.
    • R3 Astromech + Cluster Missiles ( 50 49 ). Two attacks, each with mods, but you'll have to have locks, and Init 1 locks kinda suck.
      • Also seems worse than 5 Passive Sensors Zeta Survivors with Cluster Missiles (or even 4 Gunner Zetas with PS and Cluster). Different faction, but still.
• Red Squadron Expert (44)
  • Hyperspace: Overall, more bullish here. The points mostly seem to work out better, and Init 3 seems like it's worth buying with the upgrade options you've got these days.
    • Heroic + Hull Upgrade (50). One tanky SOB, and Init 3 is likely to matter against folks spamming generics. You'll math out well against 5 T-65, due to the tankiness and higher Initiative. Really solid chance also against any "Ocho" out there which are only packing 2 dice attacks, particularly when single-modded.
    • Heroic + Advanced Optics (49). Overall solid.
    • Outmaneuver (50). Outmaneuver!?! I'm wicked tempted. Wedge out of Hyperspace? Who Cares! Fly FOUR copies of him anyhow. I mean, not really, but with Boost these folks can really spread out, and the killboxes here seem really nasty. An agility reduction is almost-sorta-kinda as good as adding a token (it depends a lot on enemy green dice and mods), so that makes Boosts and Rolls and Flip moves a lot nicer, since Outmaneuver is sorta like dice mods, and it'll mean a focused flank approach can just be deadly.
  • Extended:
    • Heroic + BB Astromech (48). The point of this is that 3 of them could be paired with Jess Pava with a BB Astromech, for full squad barrel rolls, fullish squad heroic, full squad Init 3.
    • Heroic + Pattern Analyzer (50). Full-squad PA is pretty nifty.
    • Intimidation + BB Astromech (50). Potentially really cool for maybe one specific player out there. The blocking, the pile-up on whoever gets blocked, the other ships who can nimbly avoid bumping and still get dice mods.
    • Heroic + Heavy Laser Cannon (50). Is Init 3 where HLC starts getting good?
• Black Squadron Ace (47)
  • Hyperspace: With the loss of Crack Shot, I think the primary reason to go for spam BSA is sorta gone.
    • However, with Just Heroic, they're 48 points, and maybe it makes more sense to bring one of these for Init 4 if filling out the right list. BSA with Heroic and R4 just doesn't seem too neat interesting to me.
  • Extended: I still think the biggest point of the BSA over the RSE is to leverage Init 4, which probably means Crack Shot, but Predator is also an option.
    • There doesn't seem to be a tonne to do with the spare points here, either. Seems like they could fit well into a mixed squad, ramp up the Init, but nothing really sings for them.
• Jess Pava (51)
  • In Hyperspace, she's lost her most cost-effective droid for spare charges in the BB Astromech.
    • I'm leaning towards R1-J5 as a replacement. I think that ability is nicer than R5 Astromech, and the double-repair feature is kind of neat (and can sometimes immediately cancel half a Direct Hit, but if you die first, you still die).
      • The list in my head, for those who don't mind mismatched Init: Jess (R1-J5), Bastian, Black Squadron Ace (Heroic), Black Squadron Ace (Heroic). Higher Init BSA to help with Init kills on the 2nd round of the fight. Jess with a lot of droid charges. Bastian is himself, and nicely only 47 points.
  • In extended, BB Astromech is still cheap-per-charge, and at 54 points, that'll leave a decent amount to play with for the rest of the ships in the squad.
    • Jess (BB), Bastian, 2x Red Expert (Heroic + Advanced Optics). Everyone has better-than-normal dice modification.
    • Jess (BB), 3x Red Expert (Heroic + BB). All the rolls, as mentioned above. 2 points to spare.
• Lieutenant Bastian (47) *edited in*
  • The point cut on him might actually matter. Before, I'd have been inclined to only really consider him in mixed ship squads, or squads with Jess, but at 47, that'd allow 3x 51 point X-Wings to come with him. Having 51 points for the other partners might open up some new ideas.
    • Black Ace (Marksmanship, Autoblasters). The MMS/ABS combo is pretty nasty, and a spread-out squad of Black Aces seems like it'd be really scary for aces to fight.
    • Blue Rookie (Advanced Optics, Hull Upgrade). Pure numbers at low init. 8 health, plus Optics.
    • Red Expert (Snap Shot). Could that work? That's potentially just a bunch of extra chip damage, and Bastian is great at clean-up.

16 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Outmaneuver (50). Outmaneuver!?! I'm wicked tempted. Wedge out of Hyperspace? Who Cares! Fly FOUR copies of him anyhow. I mean, not really, but with Boost these folks can really spread out, and the killboxes here seem really nasty. An agility reduction is almost-sorta-kinda as good as adding a token (it depends a lot on enemy green dice and mods), so that makes Boosts and Rolls and Flip moves a lot nicer, since Outmaneuver is sorta like dice mods, and it'll mean a focused flank approach can just be deadly.

I've had a similar reaction with Strikers - being able to pack 5 TIE/sk with Outmanoeuvre is a scary prospect because a 'heavy swarm' always works best, in my experience, when deployed in an arc and closing from multiple points of the compass.

Outmanoeuvre is about the only reliable talent still available in hyperspace to 'up-gun' a ship*, and it's darned expensive - but it is a really good one, and - unlike bullseye-focused talents, it's one that manoeuvrable generics can use effectively; with 4-5 ships on the board, it's not at all uncommon to have a shot at the enemy from outside their arc, especially as big turreted ships seem to have been largely pruned back in hyperspace.

* Heroic is okay if you're flying an RZ-2, and Ruthless isn't bad if you're an Imperial pilot, but you're not either and that's about it.

With the Rookies at 42, you can fit 4 of those plus an i1 A-Wing generic. I've never flown an RZ-2 so I can't guess whether 4x T-70 + 1x RZ-2 is any good or compares favourably to 5x T-65. The lower initiative could matter either way (blocking potential at i1 versus PS-kill potential at i2).

Re Poe +3 Rookies - after R4, Heroic and Black One seems like the best picks. That's 199 total.

The T-70 list that I'm looking at is Jess +3 Heroic Optics Experts:

Jess' Heroes (200 points)

Jessika Pava (51) Integrated S-Foils (0) Black One (2) Ship total: 53 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 4

Three of: Red Squadron Expert (44) Heroic (1) Integrated S-Foils (0) Advanced Optics (4) Ship total: 49

I'm not sold on the title on Jess, I can't decide if I'd be better off with an R4 or just leave it off and run at 198.

My reasoning is that the aggressive discount on the Experts coupled with the bargain price of Heroic makes them really good. I'm guessing that low-initiative spam may be a thing in new-Hyperspace, so having i3 and good offensive mods on 4x 3-red-dice attacks should get a decent chance at PS-killing something.

Advanced Optics, according to the probability calculator I looked up, makes a Focus about halfway towards what Focus+Lock gives in terms of average hits. I kniw from experiebce that Optics is great value on /sfs, but they's different with 2 red dice and rarely stress. I think it might take some table time for me to assess whether T-70s are consistently Focused enough for Optics to be worth it's points.

My primary question is about the core idea of the list. Do we think 4T70 is enough to compete against the emerging generic spam or do you think they will be overwhelmed by the sheer number of ships looking at them from across the table?

4 hours ago, Flurpy said:

My primary question is about the core idea of the list. Do we think 4T70 is enough to compete against the emerging generic spam or do you think they will be overwhelmed by the sheer number of ships looking at them from across the table?

Depends.

At least with 4 Heroic/Hull Red Experts, I think the math works out really well. 8HP + Heroic + Higher Initiative. You've got a solid chance to kill a T-65, for example, and id there are 4 remaining, there's a decent chance they can't kill one of yours. There's a solid chance to kill a second on the next round, and while you'll lose your weaker one, it seems easy enough to end the 2nd round of fighting at 3 vs 3 with more health and higher initiative, and that's just a winning position.

I think flying against a 2-red-dice "Ocho" is also going to go fairly well, since those T-70s can be deceptively tough. I'd be a lot more nervous about it in Extended rather than Hyperspace, but still.

Jess and or Bastian builds are probably somewhat similar to hefty Red Expert builds.

5 hours ago, Dasharr said:

Jess' Heroes (200 points)

Jessika Pava (51) Integrated S-Foils (0) Black One (2) Ship total: 53 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 4

Three of: Red Squadron Expert (44) Heroic (1) Integrated S-Foils (0) Advanced Optics (4) Ship total: 49

I'm not sold on the title on Jess, I can't decide if I'd be better off with an R4 or just leave it off and run at 198.

My reasoning is that the aggressive discount on the Experts coupled with the bargain price of Heroic makes them really good. I'm guessing that low-initiative spam may be a thing in new-Hyperspace, so having i3 and good offensive mods on 4x 3-red-dice attacks should get a decent chance at PS-killing something.

Advanced Optics, according to the probability calculator I looked up, makes a Focus about halfway towards what Focus+Lock gives in terms of average hits. I kniw from experiebce that Optics is great value on /sfs, but they's different with 2 red dice and rarely stress. I think it might take some table time for me to assess whether T-70s are consistently Focused enough for Optics to be worth it's points.

I'm a fan of Optics. My only thought here is whether or not Jess wants a droid with charges. Cutting a Red Expert for Bastian is going to be potentially stronger offense, at the cost of running an Init 2 (not that awkward, but more awkward than all Init 3), but also gaining some defensive rerolls on Jess. Being sure she lives through the first enemy volley seems important. If I'm hesitant on anything, it's whether Jess's Range 1 Bubble is too restrictive.

//

But overall in relation to @Flurpy 's questions, I think Jess builds are probably putting enough higher Initiative ships onto the field to deal with mass generics. Folks put down Init 3-4 a bunch, and there's some validity to that, but probably more with regards to Init 4 aces and 3-ship builds. There, you probably don't have the firepower for mass generics, or the initiative to deal with aces. But when you've got a 4 ship list with everyone either being immensely tanky like Heroic/Hull, or better-than-normal-attack-mods like Jess+Stuff, that's considerable punching power to leverage against lower-Init numbers.

This is why I'm really skeptical on I1 Blue Rookies. If generics are more popular, Init 1 seems like the worst place to be. I know blocking is possible (4X+A is kinda neat, though, @Dasharr ), but I've pretty much always found it more useful to take ships off the table before they shoot. In a meta where there aren't too many generics, Init 1-3 doesn't seem like it matters much, but against generics... Init 3 is worthwhile.

An example: A few months back, I was flying Crack/Optics Omega SF (plus same-build Backdraft) at a small store kit tournament. Being Init 3/4 vs some Init 1 Imperials and Init 2 Rebels was probably decisive.

//

But also... pondering 4x T-70 is just, I think, a really interesting theoretical exercise.

I think there's a lot to be learned, trying to puzzle them out.

6 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I've had a similar reaction with Strikers - being able to pack 5 TIE/sk with Outmanoeuvre is a scary prospect because a 'heavy swarm' always works best, in my experience, when deployed in an arc and closing from multiple points of the compass.

That's... that's pretty scary.

I'm always nervous with strikers, since I haven't flown them enough to get over their awkwardness in maneuvers, and also because 4 health with no shields is pretty squishy. Sacrificing the Striker in the middle to get the flank with the rest takes a certain intestinal fortitude. When it comes down to it, some folks are just Striker players, and some aren't. For those who are, go for it.

I agree with pretty much everything you said @theBitterFig , and your comment on Rookies is why I think 3X+ Poe wont live long enough to be successful.

Personally I am leaning towards Bastian/Pava/Expert/Cova Leia but that goes out of the scope of XXXX, but it feels like it has enough mods, initiative and health to be a beef squad.

10 minutes ago, Flurpy said:

I agree with pretty much everything you said @theBitterFig , and your comment on Rookies is why I think 3X+ Poe wont live long enough to be successful.

It'll be interesting to see Poe +3X and how that works out compared to Fenn + 3 Fang. I feel like Fangs have better tools for blocking, and that Concordia Faceoff seems nice. Meanwhile, Fenn Rau has typically just been more successful than Poe.

12 minutes ago, Flurpy said:

Personally I am leaning towards Bastian/Pava/Expert/Cova Leia but that goes out of the scope of XXXX, but it feels like it has enough mods, initiative and health to be a beef squad.

Seems cool. And there is that great "XXX + ?" thread. XXXX, particularly as spammed generics, again, seems as much a theoretical learning tool as anything else. Figure out what upgrades are good, whether they work in a squad, and apply that learning to other stuff.

I'm firmly in the Poe + 3 Rookies camp. Time will tell.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

and also because 4 health with no shields is pretty squishy.

Yeah. That one I'm not going to argue with. I've played with 4 T-70s before and it was a very refreshing change to get smacked in the face with a torpedo and have the only result being the pilot lean back and say "R2....get the shields back up, would you?"

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

This is why I'm really skeptical on I1 Blue Rookies. If generics are more popular, Init 1 seems like the worst place to be. I know blocking is possible (4X+A is kinda neat, though, @Dasharr ), but I've pretty much always found it more useful to take ships off the table before they shoot. In a meta where there aren't too many generics, Init 1-3 doesn't seem like it matters much, but against generics... Init 3 is worthwhile.

Agreed. At the same time, taking a T-70 off the table takes some doing, especially if you're investing points in further increasing their already impressive durability.

I think you have it right that Blue Squadron Rookies are best used if you want 3 generics and a more expensive 'ace' (someone like Poe or Snap-with-toys) to flank or a 'leader' (Jess or Tubbs) to boost the other ships in the flight. Poe in particular seems like a good call because so many I6 pilots have been either dumped entirely (Soontir) or had their signature toys taken away (Vader) that an I6 small-ship pilot who remains hyperspace legal in a ship that can take a kick or two is a big deal.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

At least with 4 Heroic/Hull Red Experts, I think the math works out really well. 8HP + Heroic + Higher Initiative. You've got a solid chance to kill a T-65, for example, and id there are 4 remaining, there's a decent chance they can't kill one of yours.

This. 8 Hull - and 8 hull behind agility 2, particularly - is going to stand up to a lot of fire. You're on average tougher than a B-wing and you have some insurance against the Octahedrons of Inevitable Betrayal turning on you.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

This. 8 Hull - and 8 hull behind agility 2, particularly - is going to stand up to a lot of fire. You're on average tougher than a B-wing and you have some insurance against the Octahedrons of Inevitable Betrayal turning on you.

The toughness is about halfway between a U-Wing and a Jumpmaster. Heroic, inconsistent as it can be, seems to have an effect on longevity about as much as half a hull upgrade, for 1/5th the price.

Among 1 agility ships, it fits in toughness somewhere between a Scurrg and a Scum/Resistance YT-1300.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

I'm firmly in the Poe + 3 Rookies camp. Time will tell.

Go for it.

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I'm a fan of Optics. My only thought here is whether or not Jess wants a droid with charges. Cutting a Red Expert for Bastian is going to be potentially stronger offense, at the cost of running an Init 2 (not that awkward, but more awkward than all Init 3), but also gaining some defensive rerolls on Jess. Being sure she lives through the first enemy volley seems important. If I'm hesitant on anything, it's whether Jess's Range 1 Bubble is too restrictive.

I've been considering Bastian in my Jess squad, and revised to this:

Jessika Pava (51) R5 Astromech (4) Integrated S-Foils (0) Ship total: 55

Red Squadron Expert (44) Heroic (1) Integrated S-Foils (0) Advanced Optics (4) Ship total: 49

Red Squadron Expert (44) Heroic (1) Integrated S-Foils (0) Advanced Optics (4) Ship total: 49

Lieutenant Bastian (47) Integrated S-Foils (0) Ship total: 47

Total: 200

Trading down an RSE to Bastian frees up the points to put a charged droid on Jess (and I like the R5 anyway). Flying with mixed initiative is less of a concern for me than not firing at i3 with all ships, meaning a much-reduced chance to PS-kill i2 enemy spam.

Regarding the range 1 bubble for Jess, my thinking is that I'd fly her and two wingmen "holding hands outstretched" instead of a Howlrunner-style scrum. That is, Jess with an RSE at each side towards the edge of the R1 bubble and the fourth just nearby, instead of all four in a tight square. That means less risk of a chain-bump against lower initiatives (and Jess is unlikely to need more than 2 dice rerolled on any given roll anyway).

Red Squadron Expert + Integrated S-foils + Heroic /

Red Squadron Expert + Integrated S-foils + Heroic /

Blue Squadron Rookie + Integrated S-foils /

Blue Squadron Rookie + Integrated S-foils /

Rose Tico /

I've been playing around with this idea.

Got enough points for either Rose or Generic Fireball.

2 hours ago, Tyhar7 said:

Red Squadron Expert + Integrated S-foils + Heroic /

Red Squadron Expert + Integrated S-foils + Heroic /

Blue Squadron Rookie + Integrated S-foils /

Blue Squadron Rookie + Integrated S-foils /

Rose Tico /

I've been playing around with this idea.

Got enough points for either Rose or Generic Fireball.

The same concept occurred to me too; I'd love to hear how it goes for you!

I'm looking a lot at the Heroic Optics Red variant.
You probably are not dying against 5 Focused Attacks in defense if you have a Focus (or 4 if you spent it already.... to get rid of that first attack against you). That is your baseline matchup against 5X sorted.

T70s have enough chunk that you have to be Really Committed to take them down as aces.

....
Is Ion Cannon on 4 T70s a good idea?
That level of Control seems alright against Aces, but I suspect that it cripples your overall flexibility if you otherwise have the option of Heroic Optics.
Maybe two of each, fly them in pairs (either Double Ion or one of each per pair)?
With the mix of both, everyone is Heroic... useful defensively.
If you use I1s, everyone gets Optics.... but I think that might be too low in the initiative order to matter... ?

I want the Blacks to be Good also, but I don't think that strapping an R4 to a Heroic base is quite enough for them.

2 hours ago, Vespid1311 said:

If you use I1s, everyone gets Optics.... but I think that might be too low in the initiative order to matter... ?

Actually, with a mob of 4, that's quite a good thing. In a standard early-to-mid-game fight, your opponent will be attempting to whomp a single X-wing, ideally before it fires, without wasting shots on any of its wingmen. That means the other 3 ships won't get shot at.

Advanced Optics guarantees that if a ship still has its focus left by the time you engage, you'll be able to spend it*. In many ways that's worse for aces, because they don't 'know' if they're going to wish they had that focus to use defensively when they get shot back at, but an I1 pilot generally knows for definite that it's not getting shot again after it fires, so it can spend any remaining focus tokens without worrying.

17 hours ago, gennataos said:

I'm firmly in the Poe + 3 Rookies camp. Time will tell.

This conversation came up in the Ailerons Clubhouse with Duchess and Planetary Sentinels versus a mob of Black Squadron Scouts.

I do like that that's a fundamental choice with quite a lot of squads after the big price drop - they've got the price point right that you're either taking 4-5 'better' generics and a talent, or the basic generics and promoting 1 ship to the best pilot that particular chassis has to offer.

I'm really not sure what the best option is in this case - I guess it's going to be dependent on what opponents you find yourself facing; especially against things like Rebel X-wings or TIE Advanced where the base generics are I2, so going from Blue Squadron to Red Squadron 'leapfrogs' their likely Initiative.

* unless you rolled straight hits, but in that case what the heck are you whining about?

6 hours ago, Vespid1311 said:

Is Ion Cannon on 4 T70s a good idea?

Hrm. I'm inclined to say no.

You could get 4 Ion Reds with no other upgrades, or 4 Blues with 2 points (BB Astromech in Extended?). I don't really think the flexibility of switching between Ion and damage is worth it.

Two Heroic Ion Reds, Jess, and Bastian would fit, and maybe that works. But I bet it's just not as good as going for Optics and just killing stuff.

If the generic Resistance Transport was Hyperspace, it'd be interesting to mix in two of those with some T-70 aces, but I'm not super confident in them.

11 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

This conversation came up in the Ailerons Clubhouse with Duchess and Planetary Sentinels versus a mob of Black Squadron Scouts.

I do like that that's a fundamental choice with quite a lot of squads after the big price drop - they've got the price point right that you're either taking 4-5 'better' generics and a talent, or the basic generics and promoting 1 ship to the best pilot that particular chassis has to offer.

I'm really not sure what the best option is in this case - I guess it's going to be dependent on what opponents you find yourself facing; especially against things like Rebel X-wings or TIE Advanced where the base generics are I2, so going from Blue Squadron to Red Squadron 'leapfrogs' their likely Initiative.

On 1/12/2020 at 9:36 AM, theBitterFig said:

• Poe + 3 Blues. If anyone out there wants to fill in on this list, go for it. It's a whole different kettle of fish.
  • My first thought is that there's a grand total of 4 points in the list, presuming R4 Poe and naked Blues.
    • Heroic seems like an easy fill on Poe. Nothing else seems worth it in Hyperspace, and I'd guess that Heroic is worth more than bid.
    • Other options for the last 3 points would be bid, Black One on Poe, or BB Astromechs on the Blues (extended only).

Aside from my Poe flyboy crush, I'm also going down this route because it's new . Mid-init Quad T-70s have been around since Resistance released, and they've never really been more than "good" or "okay". Some blips have happened, but at best it's Jess-led RSEs jousting their way into the cut...then losing. I don't see mid-init lists getting a few more points to spend changing that. I think Jess is a bit of a trap. If you don't get the lead on the first few engagements, things are probably going downhill from there.

I think Poe, in this scenario. is done with bidding for the most part. In Extended, I think BB astros on all Rookies is the way to go. They can generate some unpredictable kill boxes. They can also help against other I1s moving first. In Hyperspace, I think just leave the 3-point bid. I've come to the (personal) conclusion that Black One is kind of a trap. It's best used for an early situational position benefit, but usually used as a "get out of jail" card which doesn't often get him out of jail...just delays the sentence. Poe, in this list, needs to prioritize dealing damage. The Rookies can handle a lot of stuff if the numbers favor them. Yes, sometimes you'll lose a Rookie earlier than average variance says you should, and that'll be a tougher game. But good position, range control and blocking should mitigate that a LOT. Especially blocking.

Admittedly, my primary focus is Hyperspace for Adepticon, where I feel Poe is in the best positon he's been in since he was released.

No where in this thread has anyone even mentioned Nien or Ello. How is that possible? IMO, Ello being the same cost as Nien now makes Ello the clear pick over Nien unless one is making a "super" Nien. Ello and 3 BSAs, all with Heroic, is a flat 200 and seems really good.

On 1/13/2020 at 9:02 AM, gennataos said:

I'm firmly in the Poe + 3 Rookies camp. Time will tell.

I'm firmly in the , " every single pilot in the resistance has an imaginary DOT next to their name. If you're flying two of something, you're probably doing it wrong ", camp.

I'm a bit grey on the new generic floor for Resistance when the actual pilots didn't change a bit.

Kinda makes all the old lists worse in my book.

On 1/13/2020 at 8:33 AM, Flurpy said:

Bastian/Pava/Expert/Cova Leia

I'm certain Cova Leia is wrong in hyperspace in light of 47pt Blacks.

I'd go with Leia Pammich and actually use her force for the rest of the squad.

36 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

I'm firmly in the , " every single pilot in the resistance has an imaginary DOT next to their name. If you're flying two of something, you're probably doing it wrong ", camp.

This seems like a massive missed opportunity from FFG. What if Resistance literally had *ZERO* generic pilots? What if everyone was at most a two-dot ship? Even if almost all the pilot abilities are trivial and almost never matter, that'd be a TONNE of character.

Well, it's an option for 3rd Edition.

50 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

I'm firmly in the , " every single pilot in the resistance has an imaginary DOT next to their name. If you're flying two of something, you're probably doing it wrong ", camp.

I'm a bit grey on the new generic floor for Resistance when the actual pilots didn't change a bit.

Kinda makes all the old lists worse in my book.

The Rookies and Experts dropped 3 each. That’s a pretty big drop, particularly in numbers.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

The Rookies and Experts dropped 3 each. That’s a pretty big drop, particularly in numbers.

I think I phrased my previous comment a bit wrong.

I LOVE that the generic T70's dropped so much.

It just...kinda feels like it doesn't matter.

Everything you can do with the new "four ofs" seems like little better than gatekeeper lists or single piece budget fillers in a faction where I can already buy Optics Greer for 41 points, Heroic Jaeger for 34, Heroic Zizi for 41, etc.

Then I'm left with, "so what are my real lists?"

Then I look down and see:

____

Poe: same price.

___

Poe's toys: same price.

____

Poe's helpers (Cova/Leia Crew/Greer/Lulo): same price except 2pt drop on L.Crew.

____

That's all I'm trying to say.

I'm just not sold on lower floor Resistance being viable against double-modding Hyperspace monsters like Falcon+LukeT65+B-wing or FO spam.

I get that. I've always felt the Jess + 3 Reds list was a gatekeeper list. But, this is a Quad T-70 thread and I think now that there's more variation to that archetype, it can improve.

35 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I get that. I've always felt the Jess + 3 Reds list was a gatekeeper list. But, this is a Quad T-70 thread and I think now that there's more variation to that archetype, it can improve.

I'm hosting a Hyperspace tournament this weekend, and (despite my unique pilot rule), you've talked me into this:

-=TheGambit=-

(47) Lieutenant Bastian [T-70 X-wing]
(2) Black One
Points: 49

3x (44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(6) Outmaneuver
Points: 50

Total points: 199

___

Poe+rookies, like all Poe lists that I've tried, is a "protect the queen" playstyle, whose win condition boils down to, "keep this thing alive until the end game...and hopefully everything works out after that".

All the Resistance success I've ever had secures the win early by round 3ish of combat or dies a slow and painful death by points.

So, to push things in a different direction, my quad T70's aim to utilize Black One to dare the opponent to commit to unfavorable positions. Rather than keeping Poe safe all game, Black One makes Bastian both expendable and dangerous. The Reds commit 100% to offense and to utilizing Outmaneuver.

I'll report back here this weekend after the games.

15 hours ago, Bucknife said:

I think I phrased my previous comment a bit wrong.

I LOVE that the generic T70's dropped so much.

It just...kinda feels like it doesn't matter.

Everything you can do with the new "four ofs" seems like little better than gatekeeper lists or single piece budget fillers in a faction where I can already buy Optics Greer for 41 points, Heroic Jaeger for 34, Heroic Zizi for 41, etc.

Then I'm left with, "so what are my real lists?"

Then I look down and see:

____

Poe: same price.

___

Poe's toys: same price.

____

Poe's helpers (Cova/Leia Crew/Greer/Lulo): same price except 2pt drop on L.Crew.

____

That's all I'm trying to say.

I'm just not sold on lower floor Resistance being viable against double-modding Hyperspace monsters like Falcon+LukeT65+B-wing or FO spam.

Well yes and no.

While I do agree that 4 T-70 lists while probably never win a System Open unless someone goes on a insane run, I think its wrong to dismiss a list just because of that. I fully intend of bringing that list precisely because its the list that can joust through Swiss and crash and burn in the cut. I am self aware enough to know what I will never be good enough to fly aces or swarm to the top tables, but a solid workhorse list flown with some skill and a lot of luck goes a long way. 4 T-70 or in my case 3 T-70 and Cova removes a lot of burden from the player making idiotic decisions and works almost on its own.

That being side, it still went down a lot in points. Cova/Leia with Pava and Bastian couldn't fit Blue Rookie before, now they can fit a Red Expert with Heroic and a mini bid. Thats a huge upgrade. Its the first time you can run Leia Cova with 3 T-70 and not just have then the cheapest generics.

I fully understand that 5A is the correct Resistance choice, I also fully understand I am not good enough to fly it at a high level.