4 minutes ago, player3503606 said:

The dial, and lack of intel agent, make that a lot harder now.

It's a good thing that it doesn't have just a better-TIE-Defender dial now; it's much more fitting for an asymmetrical large-base ship. Also of note is the change to Barrel Roll that makes repositioning into a block somewhat tougher.

That said, Informant is just 5 points and you can put the Listening Device on whichever ace you're most intent on blocking to death. Sense on Assajj is also a very decent option if you have an excuse to bring her along (and Zuckuss is ideal crew for Lancers). You may have trouble dealing with stressful barrel rolls, but if you predict well it might not be as much of a problem as you would think. It still has six blue maneuvers including the enormous 3-left-bank which can take you crazy places. The two separate options for a turnaround are also extremely sweet on a large-base ship. I believe it's the only large base with a sloop at all.

Also consider that a Jump with Intelligence Agent and Feedback Array was 28 in 1st edition and is now 46 (which would be equivalent to 23). That's 5 points less for something that can still fulfill the same role, and is still basically on par as compared to the typical power level in the game.

14 hours ago, gadwag said:

This is why autoblasters are bad - no soontir player worth their salt will get caught out of arc in a bullseye, especially that of a jumpmaster. If you could catch soontir in bullseye that easily he wouldn't be a problem in the first place

Nattied 2 crits onto a Vader out of arc on Dengar's first outing. I'm not saying it's gonna be common, but shooting Autoblasters at an out-of-arc ace, is good, bulls-eye or not. One thing I did notice is that Auto's don't sync well with his ability as you want to shoot people out of their front arc ideally, and with the exception of turrets, Dengar want people facing him so he can double tap.

Autoblaster + Greedo is pure gold on Dengar.

2 hours ago, Cerebrawl said:

Autoblaster + Greedo is pure gold on Dengar.

I made this observation as well. It's insanity. Double-tap is for the Joust; Dengar wants to flank.

Actually, Dengar can double-tap on the flank!!!

Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Autoblasters (3)
IG-88D (3)
Greedo (1)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)

IG-88B (63)
Marksmanship (1)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Autoblasters (3)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
IG-2000 (1)

Skull Squadron Pilot (47)
Fearless (3)

Total: 196

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z115X120WW232W36W83W92WWY82X125W111WW232WW92WW151Y101X121W&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Have to play around with the talents there; Dengar might prefer Lone Wolf, but I like the I6 positioning options of EH, and it's now more affordable than ever. IG might be a little heavy too. I feel like AS is a must

Regardless, if you face anything you get two shots with Dengar's ability. If you don't get shot (which is better) you can token strip and then shoot. If it's outside arc, you're virtually guaranteed at least a little bit of damage. The unicorn scenario of 4 dice Autoblasters with one auto crit lets you potentially fish for more with LW or a lock...

Seems pretty sweet TBH. 3rd ship could be anything, but I4 made sense and Fangs have a proven track record. You could probably drop some stuff off IG for Fenn or Teroch.

2 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I made this observation as well. It's insanity. Double-tap is for the Joust; Dengar wants to flank.

Actually, Dengar can double-tap on the flank!!!

Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Autoblasters (3)
IG-88D (3)
Greedo (1)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)

IG-88B (63)
Marksmanship (1)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Autoblasters (3)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
IG-2000 (1)

Skull Squadron Pilot (47)
Fearless (3)

Total: 196

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z115X120WW232W36W83W92WWY82X125W111WW232WW92WW151Y101X121W&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Have to play around with the talents there; Dengar might prefer Lone Wolf, but I like the I6 positioning options of EH, and it's now more affordable than ever. IG might be a little heavy too. I feel like AS is a must

Regardless, if you face anything you get two shots with Dengar's ability. If you don't get shot (which is better) you can token strip and then shoot. If it's outside arc, you're virtually guaranteed at least a little bit of damage. The unicorn scenario of 4 dice Autoblasters with one auto crit lets you potentially fish for more with LW or a lock...

Seems pretty sweet TBH. 3rd ship could be anything, but I4 made sense and Fangs have a proven track record. You could probably drop some stuff off IG for Fenn or Teroch.

Nice work @ClassicalMoser actually think ur onto something with the pairing if dengar with ig88.

here is a variation which I'd consider testing that uses mux...

Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Autoblasters (3)
IG-88D (3)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)

Ship total: 65 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 5

IG-88B (63)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Autoblasters (3)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
IG-2000 (1)

Ship total: 79 Half Points: 40 Threshold: 4

Torkil Mux (38)
Moldy Crow (18)

Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z115X120WW232W36WW92WWY82XW111W232WWW92WW151Y114XWWWWW156&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

opponents best ace shooting last is gravy, just going to take some work to get all Guns on him

4 minutes ago, Greedo_Sharpshooter said:

Nice work @ClassicalMoser actually think ur onto something with the pairing if dengar with ig88.

here is a variation which I'd consider testing that uses mux...

Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Autoblasters (3)
IG-88D (3)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)

Ship total: 65 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 5

IG-88B (63)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Autoblasters (3)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
IG-2000 (1)

Ship total: 79 Half Points: 40 Threshold: 4

Torkil Mux (38)
Moldy Crow (18)

Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 3


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z115X120WW232W36WW92WWY82XW111W232WWW92WW151Y114XWWWWW156&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

opponents best ace shooting last is gravy, just going to take some work to get all Guns on him

I'd probably drop Contraband Cybernetics on one or both to make room for Greedo on Dengar and maybe a bid.

sure, some tweeking to taste and style needed. Might even consider a coordinate ship over the hawk freeing up mor points or something else...

Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Autoblasters (3)
IG-88D (3)
Greedo (1)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)

Ship total: 66 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 5

IG-88B (63)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Autoblasters (3)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
IG-2000 (1)

Ship total: 79 Half Points: 40 Threshold: 4

4-LOM (49)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Hull Upgrade (3)
Mist Hunter (1)

Ship total: 55 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 5


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z115X120WW232W36W83W92WWY82XW111W232WWW92WW151Y109XWWW92W164W155W&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

I played 4-LOM slot when 2.0 just hit and he quickly became a fav pilot. His ability to hand off stress, block make him very tempting to play as well as an enticing target to draw enemy fire away from ur other ships.

U have a little wriggle room for a bid here too, maybe dropping the hull upgrade and going at 197?

Or...

Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)
Autoblasters (3)
IG-88D (3)
Greedo (1)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)

Ship total: 75 Half Points: 38 Threshold: 5

IG-88B (63)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Autoblasters (3)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
IG-2000 (1)

Ship total: 79 Half Points: 40 Threshold: 4

Nom Lumb (38)
Autoblasters (3)
Informant (5)

Ship total: 46 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 5


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z115X120W234W232W36W83W92WWY82XW111W232WWW92WW151Y400XW232W37WWWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Gives u a dedicated blocker with Nom and a little more punch on Dengar with plasma torps.

6 hours ago, player3503606 said:

Back in first edition, I used a jump with Intel agent and feedback array in many, many of my lists. The ability to look at a dial, dial in that one-turn, and roll to whereever they were going to go was primo. I don't know how many aces, mostly Fenn Rau, that I blocked into oblivion.

The dial, and lack of intel agent, make that a lot harder now. I feel like every time I use a single jump these days, it's moderately useless after the initial scrum. It just can't stay in the fight the way it used to.

? This does roughly the same thing though it is a bit limited in its range and that it only affects one opponent ship.

Listening Device's text: "During the System Phase, if an enemy ship with the Informant upgrade is at range 0-2, flip your dial faceup."

In regards to ig88B I thought you was only allowed 1 bonus attack per turn so if you used ig88b ability with Dengar he wouldn't be able to use his pilot ability as he'd already performed a bonus attack this turn?

3 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

In regards to ig88B I thought you was only allowed 1 bonus attack per turn so if you used ig88b ability with Dengar he wouldn't be able to use his pilot ability as he'd already performed a bonus attack this turn?

This is correct. The nice thing though is that you're very likely to get two attacks on a round. You're even allowed to hit twice if they attack you. Means no autodamage from Autoblasters but that's okay.

9 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

One thing I did notice is that Auto's don't sync well with his ability as you want to shoot people out of their front arc ideally, and with the exception of turrets, Dengar want people facing him so he can double tap.

This is the main reason I dislike autos on Dengar. If you're planning on using a different jump pilot with the turret always sideways then they make for an ok-ish front weapon, but it's hard to argue with ion for only 3pts more

Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)
Ion Cannon (6)
IG-88D (3)
Greedo (1)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Munitions Failsafe (1)

Ship total: 79 Half Points: 40 Threshold: 5

IG-88B (63)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Autoblasters (3)
IG-2000 (1)

Ship total: 77 Half Points: 39 Threshold: 4

Nom Lumb (38)
Ion Cannon (6)

Ship total: 44 Half Points: 22 Threshold: 5


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z115X120W234W11W36W83W92W108WY82XW111W232WWWWW151Y400XW11WWWWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

some ion control, blocking and solid firepower from dengar/IG=88

17 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

? This does roughly the same thing though it is a bit limited in its range and that it only affects one opponent ship.

Listening Device's text: "During the System Phase, if an enemy ship with the Informant upgrade is at range 0-2, flip your dial faceup."

Yes, but it's expensive *and* restrictive, so it's not nearly as good.

Honestly I'm glad the bumpmaster is weaker than it was in first edition. There was a brief window after the jm5k release before passive modifiers became standard, and during that time, the bumpmaster was a centerpiece of all my lists. It's pretty easy to win when only your own list gets actions.

But, in one of those great contradictions of life, I still miss it.

43 minutes ago, player3503606 said:

Yes, but it's expensive *and* restrictive, so it's not nearly as good.

Honestly I'm glad the bumpmaster is weaker than it was in first edition. There was a brief window after the jm5k release before passive modifiers became standard, and during that time, the bumpmaster was a centerpiece of all my lists. It's pretty easy to win when only your own list gets actions.

But, in one of those great contradictions of life, I still miss it.

In 1.0 points it is 1.5 points more, 3 points if converting Intelligence Agent to 2.0 points.

1 hour ago, player3503606 said:

Yes, but it's expensive *and* restrictive, so it's not nearly as good.

To be fair, as I pointed out the whole combo is 5-10 points cheaper than in 1.0, and the things that dialed the Jump back largely dialed everything else back as well (though not to the same degree. I just ordered my first Jump to try some funky Nom Lumb and Auto-Greedo-Dengar shenanigans.

On 1/15/2020 at 10:54 AM, 5050Saint said:

One thing I did notice is that Auto's don't sync well with his ability as you want to shoot people out of their front arc ideally, and with the exception of turrets, Dengar want people facing him so he can double tap.

It's true, but at I6 he's also most likely to be able to get that flanking shot in. He's a potent threat: Leave him alone and he annihilates your aces from behind. Face down with him and he hits you twice for each time you hit him. And all for only a third of your list or so!

I've been following this thread now for some time and I guess I'll weigh in on my findings and observations.

I find it difficult to see where the JM5 will fit into both hyperspace and extended. Playing mostly hyperspace, I've been playing games with Dengar kitting him out with Autoblasters, Expert Handling, CC, Title/No Title, Agile Gunner (and none). I feel like he's still not quite where he needs to be competitive and I believe that no amount of point decrease for toys and titles will get him there. That chassis is just too unwieldy. I almost feel like I spend too much time jumping through hoops to try and make him work (no pun intended).

Nom Lumb on the other hand fits in this fantastic cheap support ship role. I think even running just barebones Nom with Autobasters (41pts) is an incredible value.

As for extended format, admittedly, I haven't played a single game with the JM5. Though every time I look at S&V for extended I feel there are much better options other than Dengar for me to field. I think I would even go as far to say that there are better options than any JM5 pilot. Maybe it's just me.