jump5k has had a big revamp with Cannon slot and a nice points buff across all ships.
Which jump5k pilot are you adding to your squad? Nom Lumb? Dengar? Someone else?
What loadouts are you interested in putting on the table?
Autoblaster seems like a solid option and any Cannon is going to open up your attacking options quite a bit.
Is punishing One title now as needed?
What role do you see this ship having. Nom Lumb seems tailor made as a cheap blocker.
Thoughts?
Edited by Greedo_SharpshooterI'm interested in trying them all. Well, maybe not Manaroo.
Scouts with Ion Cannons. One nice thing is you don't have to plan to go nose-to-nose with an enemy ship you've ionized: with a turret you can move behind or beside where they'll land, get a Range 1 shot with the primary. Seems like an OK way to use these. Bring two and Boba Fett?
Dengar with Ion or Autoblasters, and a cheaper Expert Handling. Try to leverage that large-base barrel roll.
Tel is only +3 points over a Scout, seems totally worth. He might actually be the only Punishing One target, since the astromechs would be good with him. Probably R5 over R2.
I don't really think they'll be great. However, I think they'll probably be casual-night playable for folks who want to brush the dust off their old models.
The cannon slot combined with the points drop seems like it will help them a lot. I don't think the title is as necessary now since having a cannon and pointing your turret to the back or side will help them keep guns on target. I might see if I can fit Nom Lumb in a Brobots list for double tap shenanigans, but I'll try the others out as well.
56 minutes ago, Ysenhal said:The cannon slot combined with the points drop seems like it will help them a lot. I don't think the title is as necessary now since having a cannon and pointing your turret to the back or side will help them keep guns on target. I might see if I can fit Nom Lumb in a Brobots list for double tap shenanigans, but I'll try the others out as well.
Oooh, that's a good point! Should leave plenty of points to load up the IG's with, too and give you a good blocker with ion control :3
I think Tel is a big winner. I4 isn’t top of the pops, but if you slap on an ion cannon & point his turret somewhere else, you’ve got 180 degree coverage and can bully weenies while getting at least one extra attack’s worth of survivability. Hull upgrade seems like an easy two-for-one value on him. Punishing One + R5 sounds theoretically attractive but I bet it bloats his cost too much.
Put a Gonk droid on him to get regen and keep the coverage xD (though super expensive)
Perhaps something along these lines, to combine Tel and IG shenanigans:
Who has what cannon is pretty negotiable. For example, this might be ideal with Tel's turret covering one side:
I like that everyone is init 4 and has no range to the auras, so they can fly either independently or in a cluster, whatever works best in the moment.
And yea, Tel is deployed with Hull Upgrade stapled on unless there's simply no way to fit it in the list.
Just ran Tel alongside Emon & Serissu at a tournament today, went 2-1 with the loss being at the top table.
Dengar (53)
Lone Wolf (5)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)
Greedo (1)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Punishing One (5)
R3 Astromech (3)
Total: 78
I know it looks expensive but it might actually have legs. R3 gives you offensive rerolls for those turns when you're stressed, and Lone Wolf gives you one defensive re-roll every turn. Keep the turret forward and treat it as a 3-front primary ship. Once or twice you get an effective hotshot blaster (just pop your CC to deal with the stress). At I6 and there's honestly still room to fit Han and Fenn (though you probably wouldn't want to) or 5 Mining Guild TIEs.
How about something like...
Dengar (53)
Swarm Tactics (5)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Punishing One (5)
R3 Astromech (3)
Ship total: 77 Half Points: 39 Threshold: 5
Nom Lumb (38)
Autoblasters (3)
Ship total: 41 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 5
Captain Seevor (30)
Ship total: 30 Half Points: 15 Threshold: 2
Talonbane Cobra (50)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Ship total: 52 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 3
Total: 200
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:
https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z115X132W234WWWW92WW159W4Y400XW232WWWWWY247XWY119XWW92WWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=
Use seevor as a wingman with dengar to jam an enemy before dengar shoots at init 6. CC on talonbane seems really strong maximizing his offense off a kturn or talon roll.
Edited by Greedo_SharpshooterDengar is a very nice price loaded up. Will probably use him in extended only though cuz Han Solo gunner is not hyperspace legal and every dengar build has Solo.
Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Han Solo (10)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Punishing One (5)
R3 Astromech (3)
Boba Fett (85)
Fearless (3)
Maul (12)
Slave I (1)
Total: 191
9pt bid. Full mod Dengar torps (go ahead and shoot him?) Dengar should kill the i6, or maybe 3 or 4 vultures before dying, then Boba can clean up.
Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Han Solo (10)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Spare Parts Canisters (4)
Punishing One (5)
R3 Astromech (3)
Guri (64)
Outmaneuver (6)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Afterburners (6)
Total: 180
20pt bid. Dengar takes over Fenns roll in the "kill any i6 and let Guri clean up" roll.
How about...
Nom Lumb (38)
Ion Cannon (6)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Ship total: 46 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 5
Fenn Rau (68)
Ship total: 68 Half Points: 34 Threshold: 2
Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)
Han Solo (Scum) (10)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Punishing One (5)
R3 Astromech (3)
Ship total: 86 Half Points: 43 Threshold: 5
Total: 200
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:
https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z400XW11WWW92WWY97XWY115X120W234WWW85W92WW159W4&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=
Or
Nom Lumb (38)
Ion Cannon (6)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Ship total: 46 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 5
Fenn Rau (68)
Predator (2)
Ship total: 70 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 2
Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)
Ion Cannon (6)
Han Solo (Scum) (10)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Ship total: 84 Half Points: 42 Threshold: 5
Total: 200
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:
https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z400XW11WWW92WWY97X127WY115X120W234W11WW85W92WW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=
Edited by Greedo_Sharpshooter
4 hours ago, wurms said:Dengar is a very nice price loaded up. Will probably use him in extended only though cuz Han Solo gunner is not hyperspace legal and every dengar build has Solo.
Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Han Solo (10)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Punishing One (5)
R3 Astromech (3)Boba Fett (85)
Fearless (3)
Maul (12)
Slave I (1)
Total: 1919pt bid. Full mod Dengar torps (go ahead and shoot him?) Dengar should kill the i6, or maybe 3 or 4 vultures before dying, then Boba can clean up.
Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Han Solo (10)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Spare Parts Canisters (4)
Punishing One (5)
R3 Astromech (3)Guri (64)
Outmaneuver (6)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Afterburners (6)
Total: 18020pt bid. Dengar takes over Fenns roll in the "kill any i6 and let Guri clean up" roll.
I really like your idea (like usual). I think it can shine in the upcoming meta. Why spare parts canisters?
5 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:I really like your idea (like usual). I think it can shine in the upcoming meta. Why spare parts canisters?
Well, before points update, the list had a 13pt bid, no spare parts. After points update it had a 24pt bid, lol. Figure spare parts, why not. 20pt bidnis good.
Works with han solo gunner also. Action to clear locks like vaders, etc, then can solo gunner for a focus to shoot.
6 minutes ago, wurms said:Well, before points update, the list had a 13pt bid, no spare parts. After points update it had a 24pt bid, lol. Figure spare parts, why not. 20pt bidnis good.
Works with han solo gunner also. Action to clear locks like vaders, etc, then can solo gunner for a focus to shoot.
Sounds good. Have you thought about a thicker guri? For 8p you can have The Virago shield, or only 4p if you ditch the spare parts. You’d still have a 16p bid.
P.S Nevermind... you don’t improve Guri’s threshold with just 1 shield... you’d need another hull/shield to have 7 health and that makes it a 192p squad... maybe not enough bid
Dengar crew on Nom Lumb looks like it could be decent for a bonus, albeit single die, retaliate.
2 minutes ago, NakedDex said:Dengar crew on Nom Lumb looks like it could be decent for a bonus, albeit single die, retaliate.
That is kinda neat. Since Nom's arc is going to be thrown around by a flanker, you might as well try dealing a damage once a round now that they're guaranteed to be in arc. Or you're stripping a green token to make them vulnerable to someone like Torani.
1 hour ago, NakedDex said:Dengar crew on Nom Lumb looks like it could be decent for a bonus, albeit single die, retaliate.
I’m debating whether it might be worth trying Nom with Dengar gunner, Feedback Array, and a Jamming Beam, and then having someone else with Squad Leader to bump Nom up to take Jam shots from time to time.
I suspect this is well outside the realm of “good,” but it could make for some interesting bargain jank.
Honestly, I'm not sure if a 3 point decrease and a new cannon slot is significant enough to make the jumpmaster relevant, especially when other ships (such as the t-65) received similar decreases. The issue of the jumpmaster is the same: after the initial engagement, it struggles to remain relevant to the fight. Your opponent can just ignore the jumpmaster at the start, kill your other ships, and focus on the jump at the end. Slapping an ion cannon on does help somewhat by increasing arc coverage to 180 degrees, and I'm curious to see how the cheaper jumpmasters fare on the table.
The way I see it, the jumpmaster has 3 possible roles: bumpmaster, support, or damage dealer.
Bumpmaster
A pile of cheap health that gets in the way of your opponent, soaks up incoming fire, and hopefully does some damage. Nom is the best pilot for this - not only is he dirt cheap, he is guaranteed to get shots off if your opponent shoots him. This means that he stays relevant in the late game, when other jump pilots are easily outmaneuvered and shot. Dengar gunner is tempting, and might be ok in an ace meta, but really you want your opponent shooting nom before they shoot your other ships, because he is a cheap damage sponge.
Support
Manaroo is still rather expensive, and has quite a short range, but is potentially an interesting support piece. I'm thinking of putting 000 on her to get a second green token for cheap (000 also can be flexible, as he can trigger before or after manaroo token passes). I'm not convinced that manaroo is great, but I'll give her a try. She's competing with a squad leader mining guild surveyor, which brings a cheap red coordinate at only 29pts.
Damage Dealer
Dengar or Tel are the best options here, but Dengar is probably better because he can hit much harder and earlier, and he works well with proton torps. The aim with these pilots is to deal out heaps of damage very fast - you don't need to worry about piloting a jumpmaster in the late game if there is no late game. Proton torps, punishing one, and offensive droids (r5-p8 or r3 on dengar) are useful here. If running torps on dengar, consider a support ship to pass him a focus. Just watch out for bumps - both of these pilots are very easily blocked with their large bases.
Note that both Dengar and Tel want to be shot be the enemy, and your enemy won't want to shoot them. Put these pilots in places that mean they are the only target (or the easiest target) for your opponent. Use them to joust while your other ships flank. If you want a laugh, you can even airdrop protorp dengar right in front of your opponent with Boba crew for a turn 1 proton torpedo.
In summary, I think Nom and Dengar are your best bet, because they both attempt to solve the unwieldyness of the jumpmaster - Nom using his pilot ability, and Dengar by eliminating enemy ships before the endgame. Of the two, Dengar will probably see more success because Nom's role as a blocker/harasser can also be filled by the extremely cheap Scyk interceptors.
1 hour ago, gadwag said:Honestly, I'm not sure if a 3 point decrease and a new cannon slot is significant enough to make the jumpmaster relevant, especially when other ships (such as the t-65) received similar decreases. The issue of the jumpmaster is the same: after the initial engagement, it struggles to remain relevant to the fight. Your opponent can just ignore the jumpmaster at the start, kill your other ships, and focus on the jump at the end. Slapping an ion cannon on does help somewhat by increasing arc coverage to 180 degrees, and I'm curious to see how the cheaper jumpmasters fare on the table.
The way I see it, the jumpmaster has 3 possible roles: bumpmaster, support, or damage dealer.
Bumpmaster
A pile of cheap health that gets in the way of your opponent, soaks up incoming fire, and hopefully does some damage. Nom is the best pilot for this - not only is he dirt cheap, he is guaranteed to get shots off if your opponent shoots him. This means that he stays relevant in the late game, when other jump pilots are easily outmaneuvered and shot. Dengar gunner is tempting, and might be ok in an ace meta, but really you want your opponent shooting nom before they shoot your other ships, because he is a cheap damage sponge.Support
Manaroo is still rather expensive, and has quite a short range, but is potentially an interesting support piece. I'm thinking of putting 000 on her to get a second green token for cheap (000 also can be flexible, as he can trigger before or after manaroo token passes). I'm not convinced that manaroo is great, but I'll give her a try. She's competing with a squad leader mining guild surveyor, which brings a cheap red coordinate at only 29pts.Damage Dealer
Dengar or Tel are the best options here, but Dengar is probably better because he can hit much harder and earlier, and he works well with proton torps. The aim with these pilots is to deal out heaps of damage very fast - you don't need to worry about piloting a jumpmaster in the late game if there is no late game. Proton torps, punishing one, and offensive droids (r5-p8 or r3 on dengar) are useful here. If running torps on dengar, consider a support ship to pass him a focus. Just watch out for bumps - both of these pilots are very easily blocked with their large bases.Note that both Dengar and Tel want to be shot be the enemy, and your enemy won't want to shoot them. Put these pilots in places that mean they are the only target (or the easiest target) for your opponent. Use them to joust while your other ships flank. If you want a laugh, you can even airdrop protorp dengar right in front of your opponent with Boba crew for a turn 1 proton torpedo.
In summary, I think Nom and Dengar are your best bet, because they both attempt to solve the unwieldyness of the jumpmaster - Nom using his pilot ability, and Dengar by eliminating enemy ships before the endgame. Of the two, Dengar will probably see more success because Nom's role as a blocker/harasser can also be filled by the extremely cheap Scyk interceptors.
Nice input @gadwag I agree Dengar is most likely to hit the table. I really was hoping scums coordinate ship the escape craft would have gotten a small buff in points. Its sad that mining guild with squad leader is on par or better at being the coordinator. Giving Dengar full mods is pretty scary. Its a fine line between overloading him and making him a true threat. Iv had the best success with him as an expendable crash and bash machine that flies into the teeth of the enemy and hopes to trade with something valuable. As u say, the crappy dial doesn't matter much if u expect to lose him before the endgame.
Edited by Greedo_Sharpshooter5 minutes ago, Greedo_Sharpshooter said:Its sad that mining guild with squad leader is on par or better at being the coordinator.
Squad leader mining tie is also hyperspace legal, whereas the escape craft is not
5 minutes ago, Greedo_Sharpshooter said:Giving Dengar full mods is pretty scary. Its a fine line between overloading him and making him a true threat. Iv had the best success with him as an expendable crash and bash machine that flies into the teeth of of the enemy and hopes to trade with something valuable. As u say, the crappy dial doesn't matter much if u expect to lose him before the endgame.
My thoughts exactly. I'm still not sure whether spending 29pts of support and 13pts of torpedoes on dengar is the right move, but it does make him erase things faster.
Something I keep coming back to is putting L3-37 crew on a jumpmaster, to at least reduce its stress problems in the mid- to late-game kerfuffle. The main obstacle is that d*** title. If you want punishing one, you're looking at an astromech instead, and if you don't, then you need to put that cannon and/or torp to really good use.
Consider a 59-point Tel Trevura with L3-37 + Marksmanship + Autoblasters + Hull Upgrade + Cybernetics (or Deadman's Switch). L3 gives him a mulligan on the attacker's dice, followed by easier right banks. Any bullseye is nice gravy, adding a die and often an unavoidable crit. Is this worth 30% of your list? It sponges damage alright and can deal some damage, but it's not nuclear, so I worry I've over-invested.
3 hours ago, gadwag said:Note that both Dengar and Tel want to be shot be the enemy, and your enemy won't want to shoot them. Put these pilots in places that mean they are the only target (or the easiest target) for your opponent. Use them to joust while your other ships flank. If you want a laugh, you can even airdrop protorp dengar right in front of your opponent with Boba crew for a turn 1 proton torpedo.
Perhaps something like this, for 86-92 points? Dengar with:
It's a big investment for an aggressive charge, and there's a lot an agile opponent could do to mess up those plans, such as charge into range 1 to avoid the torps, or simply fly outside of his torp arc. But I like the idea of sending some opponents into chaos trying to respond to this early threat. You may want allies that can move in fast to support Dengar though. The foe won't be distracted for long, and you want to exploit weaknesses while they're present, e.g. shoot from behind as they chase or joust Dengar. If the enemy team converges on him, even a jumpmaster melts fast, and Dengar doesn't have the stress management to out-fly them for long.
30 minutes ago, Wazat said:L3 gives him a mulligan on the attacker's dice
To be honest, I think this is actually a downside on a jumpmaster. All the jumpmasters are a cheap pile of HP and you want to encourage your opponent to shoot at them. L3's ability strongly discourages them from ever shooting at Tel, and instead they shoot your other ships first. Sure, Tel might live forever, but he's no use in the late game.
27 minutes ago, Wazat said:
- Boba Fett + Proton Torpedoes + Han Gunner for the initial charge
- Autoblasters + Marksmanship for inexpensive arc coverage while his turret is permanently on the side or back
- Contraband Cybernetics for options, as Han, Life in general, and Dengar's own dial stress him. I'd also include Shield Upgrade for another 6 points, since you're charging the enemy early.
Ah yes, I forgot that last time I used Han gunner for the torpedo double mods. Cybernetics was also invaluable as it let me sloop behind them after using Han and then continue taking actions (and using Han). I like the addition of a cannon, and I'd probably take ion - it gives you more front threat for Dengar's ability. That's the biggest downside of the Boba/torp combo - you can't bring an R3 astromech to threaten a second torp from dengar's ability. Autoblaster is a bit of a non-bo with the way I think dengar and Tel should be flown - you want to be jamming them in the enemy's face and daring them to shoot you. Jumpmasters are pretty hopeless at outmaneuvering enemy ships anyway, and if you can pull off a bullseye on a jumpmaster then that's some serious piloting skill.
I'd not bother with the shield upgrade, because after he fired his torps my dengar was very stressed, very healthy, and completely ignored by the enemy. Instead, I'd take electronic baffle - health is useless if you can't join the fight.
Of course, in hyperspace, you don't have access to L3, baffle, or Han gunner.
I think baffle and contraband are needed supporting upgrades to leverage dengars offense. Double tapping torps is a serious threat. Its clear dengar isnt great after the first exchange as bringing him back into the battle takes time but ur not expecting to see him in the endgame so we may want to encourage them to excnge shots with dengar so we need to give then no option but to engage him. The trick is going to be keeping blockers out of his path early on, tricky but doable with careful approach and obstacle placement. The secret to unlocking a fat dengar style list is going to involve the support ships with him. Do we want a coordinate giver nearby when engagement happens?
Tel Trevura (44)
Expert Handling (4)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Ion Cannon (6)
Boba Fett (4)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Electronic Baffle (2)
Ship total: 75 Half Points: 38 Threshold: 5
Mining Guild Surveyor (23)
Squad Leader (6)
Ship total: 29 Half Points: 15 Threshold: 2
Skull Squadron Pilot (47)
Crack Shot (1)
Ship total: 48 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 2
Skull Squadron Pilot (47)
Crack Shot (1)
Ship total: 48 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 2
Total: 200
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:
https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z116X120W136W11W16WW92W106WY248X131WY101X116WY101X116W&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=
This could be interesting. Tel hits fast and scatters their approach while ur supporting ships speed into the fray catching them in a pincer attack. Puts the cat amongst the pigeons and gives them hard choices out of the gates.
Edited by Greedo_Sharpshooter10 hours ago, gadwag said:Note that both Dengar and Tel want to be shot be the enemy, and your enemy won't want to shoot them.
Also true of Quickdraw and Tavson in First Order. It generally happens that they'll perform well in Swiss, but lose in the cut. People in Swiss will attack them, folks past the cut won't.
So maybe Dengar/Tell will be bad for winning the big burrito, but possibly decent for making the cut.
