I was fiddling around with Resistance on YASB and noticed they could take R3 and cluster missiles, for some easy modded double tap. This is what i ended up with:

Red Squadron Expert (44)
Heroic (1)
R3 Astromech (3)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Cluster Missiles (5)

Ship total: 53 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 4

Red Squadron Expert (44)
Heroic (1)
R3 Astromech (3)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Cluster Missiles (5)

Ship total: 53 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 4

Red Squadron Expert (44)
Heroic (1)
R3 Astromech (3)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Cluster Missiles (5)

Ship total: 53 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 4

Zizi Tlo (40)
Heroic (1)

Ship total: 41 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Resistance&d=v8ZsZ200Z257X172W4WW175WWW98Y257X172W4WW175WWW98Y257X172W4WW175WWW98Y387X172WWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Pros:

- 6 3 dice modded shots + Zizi's shot (that's a lot of heat!)

- T70s are very tanky (especially with heroic) and Zizi is also quite hard to take down

Cons:

- hard to acquire locks on ships with higher initiative than 3

- 4 ship might end up being on the low end of ship count in lists now that generics have lost some points across the board

- Lock requirements can be awkward once ships start dropping

Thoughts?

(Edit: added 3rd con)

Nothing wrong with the build imo!

I also think the lock problem is not a problem at all. Clusters are R1-2 anyways, so shooting them off first round would be tough, while getting the lock and shooting them second round should be much simpler

7 hours ago, Greebwahn said:

Nothing wrong with the build imo!

I also think the lock problem is not a problem at all. Clusters are R1-2 anyways, so shooting them off first round would be tough, while getting the lock and shooting them second round should be much simpler

I understand what you mean, but once upona time, i tried a gold squadron trooper (torrents) spam with cluster missiles(trying to make the torrents hit as hard as possible), because i thought along the same lines you did here. What ended up happening was that often enough i had to overcommit to certain positions if i wanted to acquire the locks. becauseof range issues. That proved the most problematic against aces,becauseoften enough it made arc-dodging much easier for them, because my ships were so close that blowing by them was much easier. However, that could just be me flying poorly

I really wanted to focus the discussion on Zizi vs Kaz though, as i think they have very interesting comparisons:

- both cost exactly 40 points;

- both look great on paper (imo better than other resistance options at this points cost), but have no testing done yet;

I really want to see what people think of these. My take is that Kaz kinda needs a bigger points investment(and in this build there's not much that can be cut from the T70s), while Zizi doesn't need much to get going. It is unfortunate however that she doesn't have the space for AO here, as that would give her more offensive consistency, which is where she probably will struggle the most.

Also, i could see the role of 4th ship going to another pilot like Greer or Yeager, but i haven't given it too much thought yet.

What do you all think?

Update!

The discussion for this idea has been moved to the "XXX + ?" thread, so i'm not going to respond to messages here to avoid being redundant

2 hours ago, LeMightyASP said:

Update!

The discussion for this idea has been moved to the "XXX + ?" thread, so i'm not going to respond to messages here to avoid being redundant

I am going to post here, because there's another R3/Clusters squad that got missed.

4 Blues with R3 and Clusters. Only Init 1, which is worse than 3 (Init 3 Red Experts seem like they're in a solid spot these days), but 4 ships, which is nice.

That said, I was just musing on the topic in a different thread, and thought: "Isn't this just worse than Special Force TIEs with Passive Sensors?" (or Starwings, for that matter). I can bring 5 Zetas or Nus with PS/Clusters. Won't all be double-mods, but the locks are trivial due to Passive Sensors, and adaptable (since once you kill a ship, you don't waste locks on it).

I actually went to a dice calculator and compared 8 3 dice locked attacks (blues) with 5 3 dice locked attacks + 5 3 dice nonlocked attacks (sf/gunboat) against a tokenless 2 dice defender. Blues came out on top (just slightly), so i think there is interest in trying this archetype. The only real downside this has over those 5 ship lists is the lesser total health, which admitedly is a big deal. I also feel like flying 4 ship lists is easier than flying 5 ships lists, especially because in these cases you need to make sure to have at least range 2 on your enemies.

26 minutes ago, LeMightyASP said:

The only real downside this has over those 5 ship lists is the lesser total health, which admitedly is a big deal.

Don't forget how easy it is to get locks with passive sensor - and completely free of choice, even if a target has already died!

4X requires very good range control.

The thing about TIE/sf I really like is how easy they are. Two firing arcs, so you've got strong options for positioning. Passive Sensors lets you pick your target before shooting from either arc, and you'll never risk losing an attack (or mods) due to a ship dying with a lock on it.

Also, I think the Initiative will matter. If we presume there will be a resurgence of low generics after the update, Init 1 can be a bad place to be. T-65s and folks trying out the new B-Wing S-Foils can Init-kill Blue T-70s, rather than simultaneous attacks, like a TIE/sf, and SFs can Init-kill some stuff (Blue T-70 can at most simultaneous).

Maybe 3 Red Experts + Something is a better way to go.

But then I keep thinking about Omega SFs. 4 plus Proud Tradition Muse? 4 plus Long Shot with Crack Shot? Add Crack Shot to the Omegas, and bring, like, TN-3645? Bah. I guess I just like flying FO more than Resistance. Or if I'm only bringing 3 SFs, I can bring 3 Zetas and Kylo Ren, or 3 Omegas and Blackout or a loaded Quickdraw. 2-red-dice ships with missile builds are just so much cheaper than 3-red-dice ships. Offense drops off into the late game, but hopefully TIE/sf rear gun time-on-target and a larger initial missile wave carries you through.

I think you're both underselling R3 though, the T70s get 2 choices for their first attack, and then they get to attack ANYONE who is close to the first target.

And again, the 4 blues do deal a little bit more damage than the SFs or gunboats on average.

But i think the biggest gripe i have with those two ships with clusters (SFs and Gunboats) is that their offense drops so much in consistency after the 2 rounds of missiles,and some of the charges of the missiles are just wasted on focus/focus/blank and similar rolls. The fact that they can't bring munitions failsafe to the 5 ship lists is quite unfortunate.

Also, FO's "filler" ends up being a little too expensive (aside from scorch), so they end up gutting their builds.

But i think you're right about the initiative thing, i don't think i'd fly blues if i was a resistance player. Instead, i prefer reds, since they can carry heroic, can initiative kill a bunch of other generics and with 40 points left Resistance has a lot of very fun options