Scum in HS are going to be top tier, if a little boring in their list compositions.
Scum in Extended might be real interesting.
Scum new points. Thoughts?
Drea Renthal (49)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Ship total: 56 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 4
Binayre Pirate (22)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Ship total: 24 Half Points: 12 Threshold: 2
Binayre Pirate (22)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Ship total: 24 Half Points: 12 Threshold: 2
Binayre Pirate (22)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Ship total: 24 Half Points: 12 Threshold: 2
Binayre Pirate (22)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Ship total: 24 Half Points: 12 Threshold: 2
Binayre Pirate (22)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Ship total: 24 Half Points: 12 Threshold: 2
Binayre Pirate (22)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Ship total: 24 Half Points: 12 Threshold: 2
Total: 200
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:
https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z86XW138WWWWW92WY159XW92WY159XW92WY159XW92WY159XW92WY159XW92WY159XW92W&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=
This might be a thing... Cybernetic Swarm?
44 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:Scum in HS are going to be top tier, if a little boring in their list compositions.
Scum in Extended might be real interesting.
I'm thinking we're not going to be top tier in HS, that'll probably belong to Rebels. Extended is where we got the bulk of our boost. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe scyks will prove superior, but we've lost a LOT of what made scum jank work.
Sure, Boba Fenn is around, but is it really better than 5 x-wings, or 4 double-tapping B-wings(of which only 2 have to be generics)?
FO got a big boost in HS too, once Vonreg comes out FO is the new HS Ace meta, CIS hyenas are looking good, biggest kick in the teeth goes to Republic.
Scyk are CRAZY at 25. Hoover those models up while you can!
9 hours ago, Cerebrawl said:Fite me.
Autoblasters + marksmanship costs 8 points (3 for blasters, 4 for upgrading to a tansarii point veteran, and 1 for marksmanship). HLC costs 5 points, gives you more dice, works at longer range, and doesn't require you to catch someone out of arc, but it's still not a popular option.
1 minute ago, gadwag said:Autoblasters + marksmanship costs 8 points (3 for blasters, 4 for upgrading to a tansarii point veteran, and 1 for marksmanship). HLC costs 5 points, gives you more dice, works at longer range, and doesn't require you to catch someone out of arc, but it's still not a popular option.
The initiative has value too, and i1 HLC is a fool's errand to line up on anything but the most predictable of repositionless ships.
I've played both these before the points change, and was getting value out of my marksmanship autoblaster tansariis, not so much on the HLC ones(maybe one shot per game, per ship). Often doing multiple unblockable crits into important targets, including fully tokened up force users.
38 minutes ago, gadwag said:Autoblasters + marksmanship costs 8 points (3 for blasters, 4 for upgrading to a tansarii point veteran, and 1 for marksmanship). HLC costs 5 points, gives you more dice, works at longer range, and doesn't require you to catch someone out of arc, but it's still not a popular option.
HLC, Ion, and Tractor are abysmally overpriced (making the B-Wing's debut a little bit of a flop đ ). Autoblasters might still be okay for the 3-4 dice in bullseye; it's so much easier to get at R1-2 than R2-3, and even if you don't, crits can't be blocked if you shoot at whichever guy is facing the wrong way. Pretty sweet. Maybe not worth a full 3 but sweet nonetheless. And no, Tansarii Point Veteran is a stupid waste of points by any measure. It should be 1-2 more than the Cartel Spacer. There's another one of those bizarre initiative leaps that makes no sense (like the Gamma Squadron Pilot). Definitely not worth it for Marksmanship.
I would totally use APTs though. Maybe Mag-Pulse or Prockets. Probably nothing else besides flying them naked.
Edited by ClassicalMoser
Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)
Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)
Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)
Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)
Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)
Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)
Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)
Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)
Total: 200/200
8 ships nothing too fancy but should be able to take apart most things with their ability and the crackshots. They just get where people least expect them too.
8 hours ago, Cerebrawl said:The initiative has value too, and i1 HLC is a fool's errand to line up on anything but the most predictable of repositionless ships.
That glorious four dice autoblaster shot happened more often than youâd expect with i1 Scyks in numbers. Gotta dodge them all. Ultimately itâs just maneuvering into positions to get shots and let your opponent worry about the bullseye.
13 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:Scyk are CRAZY at 25. Hoover those models up while you can!
Cool. Already got six. I never would have dropped these things by three points. One seemed smart, two was possible, but three?
10 hours ago, Ronu said:Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)Modified TIE/ln Fighter - Mining Guild Surveyor - 25
Mining Guild Surveyor - (24)
Crack Shot (1)Total: 200/200
8 ships nothing too fancy but should be able to take apart most things with their ability and the crackshots. They just get where people least expect them too.
Yet still 8x ruthless would be OP? SMH
feels like this is the most options Scum has had since 2.0 first dropped.
Generics are looking strong. Spammy lists with Cannon carriers but also janky stuff scum is known for but now with greater flexibility to mix and match more scummy shenanigans esp contraband cybernetics which was already good at 3pts but at two almost becomes an auto include for me.
Here are all the pilots and upgrades (with points) for Scums that are HS legal and are in my opinion good. Anything else is overcosted crap
Zealous Recruit (41)
Skull Squadron Pilot (47) + Fearless(3)
Fenn Rau (68) + Fearless (3) / Outmaneuver (6)
Bounty Hunter (62)
+ Contraband Cybernetics (2) / Deadmanâs Switch (2)
+ 0-0-0 (5)
Emon Azzameen (71)
+ Fearless (3)
+ Contraband Cybernetics (2) / Deadmanâs Switch (2) / Rigged Cargo Chute (4)
+ 0-0-0 (5) / Perceptive Copilot (8) / Maul (12)
+ Seismic Charges (3) / Proton Bombs (5) / Ion Bombs (6) / Cluster Mines (8) (choose 2)
+ Andrasta (3)
Boba Fett (85)
+ Fearless (3)
+ Proton Torpedoes (13)
+ Contraband Cybernetics (2) / Deadmanâs Switch (2) / Rigged Cargo Chute (4)
+ 0-0-0 (5) / Perceptive Copilot (8) / Maul (12)
+ Seismic Charges (3) / Proton Bombs (5) / Ion Bombs (6) / Cluster Mines (8)
+ Hull Upgrade (5)
+ Slave I (1)
Nom Lumb (38) / Tel Trevura (44) / Dengar (53)
+ Proton Torpedoes (13) (only Dengar)
+ Autoblaster (3) / Ion Cannon (6)
+ BT-1 (2) / Dengar (6)
+ Contraband Cybernetics (2) / Deadmanâs Switch (2) / Rigged Cargo Chute (4)
+ Hull Upgrade (5) (only Tel Trevura)
+ Punishing One (5)
if title
+ R3 Astromech (3) / R5-P8 (4)
if no title
+ 0-0-0 (5) / Informant (5) / Perceptive Copilot (8) / Maul (12)
Cartel Spacer (25) + Autoblaster (3) / Tractor Beam (3) / Ion Cannon (6)
Sunny Bounder (27) + Autoblaster (3)
Genesis Red (31) / Serissu (41)
+ Autoblaster (3) / Tractor Beam (3) / Ion Cannon (6) / Mag-Pulse Warheads (6) / Plasma Torpedoes (9) / Proton Torpedoes (13)
Mining Guild Sentry (22)
Mining Guild Surveyor (23) + Fearless (3) / Intimidation (3) / Squad Leader (6)
2 hours ago, Boreas Mun said:Here are all the pilots and upgrades (with points) for Scums that are HS legal and are in my opinion good. Anything else is overcosted crap
Zealous Recruit (41)
Skull Squadron Pilot (47) + Fearless(3)
Fenn Rau (68) + Fearless (3) / Outmaneuver (6)Bounty Hunter (62)
+ Contraband Cybernetics (2) / Deadmanâs Switch (2)
+ 0-0-0 (5)
Emon Azzameen (71)
+ Fearless (3)
+ Contraband Cybernetics (2) / Deadmanâs Switch (2) / Rigged Cargo Chute (4)
+ 0-0-0 (5) / Perceptive Copilot (8) / Maul (12)
+ Seismic Charges (3) / Proton Bombs (5) / Ion Bombs (6) / Cluster Mines (8) (choose 2)
+ Andrasta (3)
Boba Fett (85)
+ Fearless (3)
+ Proton Torpedoes (13)
+ Contraband Cybernetics (2) / Deadmanâs Switch (2) / Rigged Cargo Chute (4)
+ 0-0-0 (5) / Perceptive Copilot (8) / Maul (12)
+ Seismic Charges (3) / Proton Bombs (5) / Ion Bombs (6) / Cluster Mines (8)
+ Hull Upgrade (5)
+ Slave I (1)Nom Lumb (38) / Tel Trevura (44) / Dengar (53)
+ Proton Torpedoes (13) (only Dengar)
+ Autoblaster (3) / Ion Cannon (6)
+ BT-1 (2) / Dengar (6)
+ Contraband Cybernetics (2) / Deadmanâs Switch (2) / Rigged Cargo Chute (4)
+ Hull Upgrade (5) (only Tel Trevura)
+ Punishing One (5)
if title
+ R3 Astromech (3) / R5-P8 (4)
if no title
+ 0-0-0 (5) / Informant (5) / Perceptive Copilot (8) / Maul (12)Cartel Spacer (25) + Autoblaster (3) / Tractor Beam (3) / Ion Cannon (6)
Sunny Bounder (27) + Autoblaster (3)
Genesis Red (31) / Serissu (41)
+ Autoblaster (3) / Tractor Beam (3) / Ion Cannon (6) / Mag-Pulse Warheads (6) / Plasma Torpedoes (9) / Proton Torpedoes (13)Mining Guild Sentry (22)
Mining Guild Surveyor (23) + Fearless (3) / Intimidation (3) / Squad Leader (6)
So the one you didn't list
Kad Solus
Joy Rekkoff
Kath Scarlet
Koshka Frost
Krassis Trelix
Manaroo
Contracted Scouts
Serissu
Quinn Jast
Inaldra
Laetin A'shera
Tansarii Point Vet
G4R-G0R
Ahhav
Overseer Yushyn
So according to your list (not saying its correct but according to it) just about half our ships are good. 14 good, 15 not good.
You obviously prefer no-name generics, with the J5K being the exception.
All in all seems Scum is in a pretty balanced situation, and hence in a good position to be in. Everything can't be perfect / good / viable. That's just not realistic.
I have two lists that I have been using for Scum. My oldest only dropped 2 points, but had dropped in the last change, as well. My latest that I have been using dropped by 18 points!!!!! That is a lot of points!
On 1/9/2020 at 7:02 PM, GuacCousteau said:The Scyk still won't be good even if you can squeeze one extra into a list.
It depends on what you expect them to do. My best use of a Scyk is to add one to a list with Tractor Beam Cannon. I started with the idea of one TPV with Tractor to 4 Cartel Maruaders, but dropped one Kihraxz for a G-1A to be a blocker. It's the most effective list I have ever used. I fire with TB and try to reduce green dice and let the 4 other ships blast it down. Also, i've been surprised at the number of ships I have killed by throwing them onto rocks.
With points drop, I upgraded to Laetin and 4-LOM. The G-1A has been great to have in the rear and not move to act as a blocker when jousting. Keeps the enemy bunched up and actionless. I now have 2 points to upgrade.
My point is, don't mass spam them and expect miracles. Use one for a purpose in your list. Ion? Tractor? Something else?
On 1/9/2020 at 8:27 PM, CoffeeMinion said:Iâm very excited for Scumâs new points! And Iâm utterly flabbergasted at giving the JM5K a cannon slot. Thatâs probably the most elegant âfixâ that they couldâve applied to whatâs otherwise a pretty broken (in the bad sense) chassis. Bravo, FFG!
I'm curious what you think this does for the Jumpmaster? I read about the Cannon slot, looked at Cannons, and shrugged. Maybe I'm missing something? The only thing I could think of was an Ion Cannon and having the turret point not front to have a shot most turns.
I brought my slightly modified dual IG-88 to a tournament last weekend and won all 4 of my matches. The point changes affected the meta, which included more lower initiative ships, like 5 X-Wings (which I did face). I like where the point change pushed the meta, because lower initiative means that lists ressemble more what I find on FlyCasual (which is where I practice being outnumbered and tearing the opponent piece by piece a lot, hehe).
Here's what I'm toying with for Scum Hyperspace. I'm a little worried that it'll be no match for the I6 aces (I see you there FO), but it seems to be good against the swarmy lists that are increasing.
Boba (85)
+ Maul (12)
+ Slave 1 (1)
+ Contraband Cybernetics (2)
x2 Skull Squadron Pilot (47)
+ Fearless (3)
200 points
I'm tempted by the 10 point Han Gunner because I used to fly those Boba shenanigans, but Maul seems to work fairly well for that extra focus power.
3 hours ago, heychadwick said:I'm curious what you think this does for the Jumpmaster? I read about the Cannon slot, looked at Cannons, and shrugged. Maybe I'm missing something? The only thing I could think of was an Ion Cannon and having the turret point not front to have a shot most turns.
I havenât been able to get a game in since points dropped, and I likely wonât until next week due to life being life. So right now all Iâve got is theorizing.
However, I see the Cannon slot (and, yes, probably specifically Ion Cannon) elevating the Jump from a lethargic platypus to something that at least might have teeth. Ion + side arc coverage lets you maintain time on target while splashing some control in your list. Being able to take crew (i.e., not being stuck going to Punishing One just to get a decent gun) is probably more helpful for the chassis than an astro, too. The points drop is, of course, also a huge factor.
I wonât know if itâs âgoodâ until I get it on the table... well, okay, maybe I can guess that itâs not âgoodâ per se. But if the Jump has gained as much ground as I think it hasâand especially if it emerges as a vehicle for jank through Tel Trevura or LomâI could see it being part of more than a few fun casual lists.
5 minutes ago, CoffeeMinion said:I wonât know if itâs âgoodâ until I get it on the table... well, okay, maybe I can guess that itâs not âgoodâ per se. But if the Jump has gained as much ground as I think it hasâand especially if it emerges as a vehicle for jank through Tel Trevura or LomâI could see it being part of more than a few fun casual lists.
I'd settle for decent over "good".
With the new points, you can do this in Hyperspace:
Dengar (JM5K) + BT-1 + 0-0-0 + Expert Handling + Rigged Cargo Chute + Hull Upgrade + Autoblasters
3x Zealous Recruit
199/200 pts.
Pretty significant damage output with an I6 double tapper. I'm happy.
The more I think about it, the more I think the Cartel Spacer is a point too cheap. It has:
Compared to 25-point ships:
⢠1 more agility than a torrent, an arguably better dial, and only at the cost of 2 hull for a shield
⢠Equal initiative, health, and agility to a TIE/fo, but switch tech for a weapons hardpoint (that must be worth at least something...)
⢠2 less initiative than a Black Squadron TIE, but trades the talent slot for a shield and a weapons hardpoint which seems like an insane bargain
⢠Vs TUB, it trades two hull for a shield, gains an agility, and trades cannon for barrage or devices. Networked vs Focus is basically a wash.
Compared to 26-point ships:
⢠1 less hull and initiative than a TIE aggressor, but one more agility
⢠Comparing to Rose Tico is a little weird, but it's equal health with one more agility, and gains weapons hardpoint instead of red coordinate and jam...
⢠Seems like an even match with the I2 TIE/fo. Tech vs Weapons Hardpoint goes to the Scyk, Dial and initiative goes to the TIE/fo. Hard to say...
Maybe this is just conjecture. I still feel like Cartel Spacers will be everywhere this season. 8 in a list is a full 24 hull behind 8 shields and 3 agility. Seems pretty crazy.
Also can we talk about this super fluffy list? Kath got a pretty awesome buff, albeit indirect, in this last adjustment. At I4 with 4-5 dice, she's going to murder things.
You can drop any 2 illicits for her title if you prefer, but I feel like she doesn't need it.
Kath Scarlet (72)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Binayre Pirate (22)
Feedback Array (3)
Binayre Pirate (22)
Feedback Array (3)
Binayre Pirate (22)
Feedback Array (3)
Binayre Pirate (22)
Feedback Array (3)
Binayre Pirate (22)
Feedback Array (3)
Total: 199
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:
https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z105XWWWWW92WWY159XW94WY159XW94WY159XW94WY159XW94WY159XW94W&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=
Blockers everywhere makes for tons of area denial/autodamage/extra dice for Kath. Maybe still not good but closer than ever and seems super fun/tempting. Variant gives her title and Intimidation on all the blockers, but one less Z-95. She turns into an offensive monster like Fenn Rau and Sun Fac combined:
Also Quad Jumps are back in spades:
Nom Lumb (38)
Autoblasters (3)
Dengar (6)
Feedback Array (3)
Contracted Scout (41)
Autoblasters (3)
Zuckuss (2)
Feedback Array (3)
Contracted Scout (41)
Autoblasters (3)
4-LOM (2)
Feedback Array (3)
Contracted Scout (41)
Autoblasters (3)
Feedback Array (3)
Total: 195
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:
https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z400XW232WW80W94WWY118XW232W66WW94WWY118XW232W31WW94WWY118XW232WWW94WW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=
Nob Lumb/Dengar is just a super annoying combo â of course you don't want to shoot him early or you're making yourself vulnerable to all the others, but if you don't you're stuck agianst him in the endgame, which is just as bad.
Vs aces they just deny massive amounts of area and gladly give up their puny attacks for autodamage. Miss the block and you're as likely as not to have bullseye for a great Autoblaster attack. Vs swarms they just jump around and lean into their 2-agility. Bonus points if you can block 2-3 ships for positive health trading. The ion doesn't even hurt until your third use.
And when you do attack, you can focus as much on modding the defender's dice as your own (which is generally better for 2-dice attacks anyway). At low initiative, you have perfect information for how to spend your focus: If you didn't need it on defense, you can spend it offensively every time! At high initiative you can roll out of a swarm's arcs. It just seems super fun.
And a decent bid for 1st/second, whichever is preferable against your matchup.
Edited by ClassicalMoser
Dengar (53)
Expert Handling (4)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Ion Cannon (6)
Qi'ra (2)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Electronic Baffle (2)
Ship total: 82 Half Points: 41 Threshold: 5
Tel Trevura (44)
Expert Handling (4)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Ion Cannon (6)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Ship total: 69 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 5
Nom Lumb (38)
Ion Cannon (6)
Punishing One (5)
Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 5
Total: 200
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:
https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z115X120W136W11W55WW92W106WY116X120W136W11WWW92WWY400XW11WWWWW159W&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=
46 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:Compared to 25-point ships:
1. ⢠1 more agility than a torrent, an arguably better dial, and only at the cost of 2 hull for a shield
2. ⢠Equal initiative, health, and agility to a TIE/fo, but switch tech for a weapons hardpoint (that must be worth at least something...)
3. ⢠2 less initiative than a Black Squadron TIE, but trades the talent slot for a shield and a weapons hardpoint which seems like an insane bargain
4. ⢠Vs TUB, it trades two hull for a shield, gains an agility, and trades cannon for barrage or devices. Networked vs Focus is basically a wash.
Cherry pick much? Add the following (other than 3, your take on that is just wow).
1. Torrent is a cheap knife fighter with linked roll>evade.
2. /fo has 3 SLoops instead of the 3 Kturn, 3 turns instead of the 1 banks and most of the damage cannons cost more than the tech the /Fo uses.
3. ? How're you getting "insane bargain" out of -2 init, no talent, +1 shield, 1 banks instead of 3 turns and an upgrade slot that requires a 10%+ further investment at a minimum?
4. Linked roll > lock and access to struts (since you're so hung up on what can go into the slots...). Also has a zippy knife fighter dial with Talons.
Full picture mate. Not piecemeal.
42 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Full picture mate. Not piecemeal.
The intention wasn't to subvert the data. There's just a lot of factors to consider and obviously I couldn't include everything in a brief run-down. I was just trying to pick out the most obvious characteristics of 25- and 26-point ships.
I do think the hardpoint is worth a significant amount. Wouldn't you pay more than 3 points to have that on a TIE/ln? Maybe, maybe not. I guess we'll see, but I suspect these will be all over the meta.
Edited by ClassicalMoser