One very important fact I don't see mentioned, gas clouds now give out strain if you roll hit or crit.
Gas cloud changes
It's not even hit or crit. It's hit or focus . That's a 5/8 chance.
Hit or focus, so a 5/8 chance
... but NOT crit??? Thematically ok. but rules remembering EW.
Also plz source, I just missed it while going thru rulebook (albeit it was a fast glimpse)
45 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:Also plz source, I just missed it while going thru rulebook (albeit it was a fast glimpse)
I mean, it's in the rulebook.
51 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:... but NOT crit??? Thematically ok. but rules remembering EW.
It'll be similar to rolling Major Explosion in 1st edition. You'll get really excited when you see them roll a crit, and then get really disappointed when you realize that the crit means they're actually safe.
13 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:It'll be similar to rolling Major Explosion in 1st edition. You'll get really excited when you see them roll a crit, and then get really disappointed when you realize that the crit means they're actually safe.
Yeah. That one was a major bad lol. Not thematic either.
I feel this change was sorely needed. Clouds were too safe and they sapped away a lot of lists' strategy of having obstacles on the table.
I still think this was an unnecessary change. Just saying.
At least it's not a guarantee that it happens.
Yeah, I don't like this one at all... in general but especially because of Tractor Beam and its interaction with obstacles. FFG "seems" to want to make the tractored effect less annoying with the new "you can pivot 90 degrees if you're moved" rule but...
- Asteroids: you can't attack, so who cares about pivoting?
- Debris Clouds: you gain a stress when overlapping them, so you will very rarely want to take a 2nd to pivot
- Gas Clouds: you have a good chance to end up with strain, plus the tractored effect, so you lose 2 green dice
Personally I like the loss of 2 green dice. Makes some of the scum tractor shenanigans a bit more relevant after so many nerfs.
Very happy about this change. I have seen player after player bring them. The gas clouds seemed to be stapled to the game mat.
Yeah, let's just buff one of the two mechanics that still consistently has a discussion about being an NPE, for the faction known for providing a bulk of the NPE discussions.
Surely this is a wonderful idea. 😐
25 minutes ago, admat said:- Gas Clouds: you have a good chance to end up with strain, plus the tractored effect, so you lose 2 green dice
1 hour ago, ForceSensitive said:I still think this was an unnecessary change. Just saying.
At least it's not a guarantee that it happens.
All the obstacles have a bad down side... Gas clouds make you lose an action but give you an automatic evade pretty much.
Gas clouds are easy easy mode. they needed a fix.
16 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:All the obstacles have a bad down side... Gas clouds make you lose an action but give you an automatic evade pretty much.
Gas clouds are easy easy mode. they needed a fix.
We will disagree on this forever. It was a good design space to have a light consequence obstacle.
Asteroids, hard consequence. Debris, mild... We need a light. Enter: Gas.
And for as much as anyone wants to say they're easy mode, every time I played someone with them on table, every opportunity they had to fly through them, I'd ask: You could just fly through the gas, why didn't you? And guess what? They NEVER had an answer. They ALWAYS took the time to fly around it. Silently losing an action was too much too scare them away as it was. Because the threat of getting hit with out a token ready was too risky.
Because they'd b@#$&+ the whole setup that it was such a terrible thing....
....
....
and then never demonstrate it 😐 🤨
So no. I don't see why this change was necessary outside of a group think that every consequence of an obstacle had to be equivalent. The thing that frustrated people who hated the old version was that their alpha strikes couldn't hit a clever player who utilized the new mechanic as cover. Because heaven forbid board position and flying ever had more to do with winning the game then jousting efficiency 😒
And it's like this. At least on this forum, I'm the hardest guy for FFG to please. I know that. I criticize pretty much everything they ever do with little exception. Even when I like something, it's usually followed by a caveat. And I'm pretty consistent on that. So when I played v1 gas and thought it brought really interesting things to the game, changed it up, makes you think, allows a new risk-reward decision, makes crazy flight-plans more feasible and didn't have anything to really pick at? I was like wow, I actually like this, what the Force am I saying!? It's a hamper to my usual favorite two firepower ships, but it also helps them? Neat. Ambush tactics are a thing? Cool.
Sad that what I got was a bunch of comp players(and literally around here it was ONLY big event players who complained) who complained that they couldn't use their old math-based tricks anymore because surprise, evade terrain is a thing in our ever increasing super attack capabilities.
Since were all entitled to our opinions and such, I feel better about it, I hope you do too, we're all still friends here. So here's to another year of trying to struggle through, cheers!
5 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:We will disagree on this forever. It was a good design space to have a light consequence obstacle.
Asteroids, hard consequence. Debris, mild... We need a light. Enter: Gas.
And for as much as anyone wants to say they're easy mode, every time I played someone with them on table, every opportunity they had to fly through them, I'd ask: You could just fly through the gas, why didn't you? And guess what? They NEVER had an answer. They ALWAYS took the time to fly around it. Silently losing an action was too much too scare them away as it was. Because the threat of getting hit with out a token ready was too risky.
Because they'd b@#$&+ the whole setup that it was such a terrible thing....
....
....
and then never demonstrate it 😐 🤨
So no. I don't see why this change was necessary outside of a group think that every consequence of an obstacle had to be equivalent. The thing that frustrated people who hated the old version was that their alpha strikes couldn't hit a clever player who utilized the new mechanic as cover. Because heaven forbid board position and flying ever had more to do with winning the game then jousting efficiency 😒
And it's like this. At least on this forum, I'm the hardest guy for FFG to please. I know that. I criticize pretty much everything they ever do with little exception. Even when I like something, it's usually followed by a caveat. And I'm pretty consistent on that. So when I played v1 gas and thought it brought really interesting things to the game, changed it up, makes you think, allows a new risk-reward decision, makes crazy flight-plans more feasible and didn't have anything to really pick at? I was like wow, I actually like this, what the Force am I saying!? It's a hamper to my usual favorite two firepower ships, but it also helps them? Neat. Ambush tactics are a thing? Cool.
Sad that what I got was a bunch of comp players(and literally around here it was ONLY big event players who complained) who complained that they couldn't use their old math-based tricks anymore because surprise, evade terrain is a thing in our ever increasing super attack capabilities.
Since were all entitled to our opinions and such, I feel better about it, I hope you do too, we're all still friends here. So here's to another year of trying to struggle through, cheers!
You’re 100% right, different opinions doesn’t mean one person is wrong. My opinion is that original gas clouds did not promote good flying at all. Now with possible strain, you have to be more careful.
everything about 2.0 is about flying better, not easier.
10 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:We will disagree on this forever. It was a good design space to have a light consequence obstacle.
Asteroids, hard consequence. Debris, mild... We need a light. Enter: Gas.
And for as much as anyone wants to say they're easy mode, every time I played someone with them on table, every opportunity they had to fly through them, I'd ask: You could just fly through the gas, why didn't you? And guess what? They NEVER had an answer. They ALWAYS took the time to fly around it. Silently losing an action was too much too scare them away as it was. Because the threat of getting hit with out a token ready was too risky.
Because they'd b@#$&+ the whole setup that it was such a terrible thing....
....
....
and then never demonstrate it 😐 🤨
So no. I don't see why this change was necessary outside of a group think that every consequence of an obstacle had to be equivalent. The thing that frustrated people who hated the old version was that their alpha strikes couldn't hit a clever player who utilized the new mechanic as cover. Because heaven forbid board position and flying ever had more to do with winning the game then jousting efficiency 😒
And it's like this. At least on this forum, I'm the hardest guy for FFG to please. I know that. I criticize pretty much everything they ever do with little exception. Even when I like something, it's usually followed by a caveat. And I'm pretty consistent on that. So when I played v1 gas and thought it brought really interesting things to the game, changed it up, makes you think, allows a new risk-reward decision, makes crazy flight-plans more feasible and didn't have anything to really pick at? I was like wow, I actually like this, what the Force am I saying!? It's a hamper to my usual favorite two firepower ships, but it also helps them? Neat. Ambush tactics are a thing? Cool.
Sad that what I got was a bunch of comp players(and literally around here it was ONLY big event players who complained) who complained that they couldn't use their old math-based tricks anymore because surprise, evade terrain is a thing in our ever increasing super attack capabilities.
Since were all entitled to our opinions and such, I feel better about it, I hope you do too, we're all still friends here. So here's to another year of trying to struggle through, cheers!
So why can't players still take gas clouds and use that flying you talk about to not hit the cloud, but keep it between them and the shooter? If anything, gas clouds made it way easier for people to fly and achieve the board position they wanted because they didn't care if they hit the cloud. Now they might.
It's still a light consequence obstacle with a major upside.
3 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:You’re 100% right, different opinions doesn’t mean one person is wrong. My opinion is that original gas clouds did not promote good flying at all. Now with possible strain, you have to be more careful.
everything about 2.0 is about flying better, not easier.
Lol except for the return of the passive mods in Force. And hyper capable alphas at high I lol 😅 😜
2 hours ago, admat said:Asteroids: you can't attack, so who cares about pivoting?
The primary goal of it is to prevent someone from forcing someone off the table next turn by leaving their nose to the edge. By being able to rotate, you can prevent that.
As far as rocks, you ever end up on a rock and have a little bit of it hanging out in front of you, meaning that you are screwed next turn as well because you are going to overlap it again when you attempt to maneuver off? Yeah, now you have a chance of rotating so your front is clear and not have to risk another hit from the rock and skipping your perform action step.
1 minute ago, kris40k said:The primary goal of it is to prevent someone from forcing someone off the table next turn by leaving their nose to the edge. By being able to rotate, you can prevent that.
As far as rocks, you ever end up on a rock and have a little bit of it hanging out in front of you, meaning that you are screwed next turn as well because you are going to overlap it again when you attempt to maneuver off? Yeah, now you have a chance of rotating so your front is clear and not have to risk another hit from the rock and skipping your perform action step.
I figured the primary goal was to ensure you have a shot, and not let your opponent dictate which of their ships is in your arc.
Rocks are always going to screw you. Turn 0 still matters. This definitely helps reduce the double-tap rock though to your point.
4 minutes ago, dsul413 said:So why can't players still take gas clouds and use that flying you talk about to not hit the cloud, but keep it between them and the shooter? If anything, gas clouds made it way easier for people to fly and achieve the board position they wanted because they didn't care if they hit the cloud. Now they might.
It's still a light consequence obstacle with a major upside.
That's what I'm saying, that was the welcome addition to the game for me. There was that cover mechanic. But the irony as I tried to explain is that the original consequence, no action step, was still enough for them to usually go around anyway. They tend to not use it for that purpose, and then balk when someone else did.
From right now, that's the thing I'm sitting here enjoying my beer over. If I had to make a prediction, I'd bet those same players, that I've played with for years and have gotten to know what and how they think in game a little...I think they're going to 'get dumb' and fly through a gas cloud more often in trying to find that cool play, and knowing they can risk it on a die. I think the die roll is going to basically passive psyche them out into the occasional bad choice. They tend to do that with debris sooo... That's my prediction. So to me FFG may have actually made gas... Better lol?
10 minutes ago, dsul413 said:I figured the primary goal was to ensure you have a shot, and not let your opponent dictate which of their ships is in your arc.
Rocks are always going to screw you. Turn 0 still matters. This definitely helps reduce the double-tap rock though to your point.
But it doesn't help the double debris
I also figured the goal was to prevent the double obstacle at least occasionally. But on debris it doesn't do that. It just front loads the consequence, skip a unlikely as it was roll anyway, and maybe you can turn around a little faster? Maybe? But stressed?
13 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:I still think this was an unnecessary change. Just saying.
At least it's not a guarantee that it happens.
Played with gas cloud last night. They are so much fun!!! We hit them 6 times in one game, never rolled a blank. (Turns out strikers have a hard time avoiding obstacles). There was so much strain on the board. It was just really interesting how that strain could pull fire from good shots, or at least make you think twice about your original target.
Yeah, I'm a fan of this change.