22 minutes ago, Dasharr said:

If you just want to spam TIEs, the First Order is better. The same 25 points for a TIE/ln instead gets you a TIE/fo with better dial and a shield.

That is the problem here. You have to swap factions, so buy ships. The whole Hyperspace cutting seems like a massive money grab.

The fact FO and Res gets much better ships for barely higher point cost is just baffling to me.

Tie LN is 22. Tie FO is 25, has Lock action, better dial and a shield. Lock is 3 points, Shield on 3 Agility is 8 points, value of dial is debatable.

T-65 is 40. T-70 is 42, has basic Boosts without flipping Foils, it's foils allow it to still have all attack dice and has access to a Hardpoint instead of a Torpedo slot and a Shield more.

RZ-1 is 29. RZ-2 is 32, has a Tech slot and can shoot backwards.

Show me balance in this. Please.

6 hours ago, Schanez said:

new

👍

6 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Yeah it’s okay your faction was gutted. The nice thing is they all were.

It seems like they’re really using hyperspace to help players get over a bunch of dubious conventional wisdom.

Maybe mid-I swarms can be good? Maybe you don’t need QD to play FO? Maybe I6 isn’t everything? Maybe Imp swarms can work without Howl?

Lots of really good questions that the community previously wasn’t interested in are now forced to the forefront of the discussion.

Cannot like this comment enough. How impressive is it that they have created a truly new sandbox for even the most veteran of players to figure out and enjoy? The puzzle solver in me is highly delighted with Hyperspace. This is what it should have felt like in the beginning; an equalizer format where new players can join and experienced ones have to reinvent themselves.

On 1/10/2020 at 6:51 AM, Schanez said:

That is the problem here. You have to swap factions, so buy ships. The whole Hyperspace cutting seems like a massive money grab.

The fact FO and Res gets much better ships for barely higher point cost is just baffling to me.

Tie LN is 22. Tie FO is 25, has Lock action, better dial and a shield. Lock is 3 points, Shield on 3 Agility is 8 points, value of dial is debatable.

T-65 is 40. T-70 is 42, has basic Boosts without flipping Foils, it's foils allow it to still have all attack dice and has access to a Hardpoint instead of a Torpedo slot and a Shield more.

RZ-1 is 29. RZ-2 is 32, has a Tech slot and can shoot backwards.

Show me balance in this. Please.

Firstly, I promise I am not trying to be a jerk or argumentative. But we just can't play the compare factional chassis game. To illustrate;

Tie FO is 25 ; For 30 points, one can get the cheapest Snap Shot double tap in Hyperspace, The Mining Guild Surveyor. Many experienced players will take that everyday over a base F/O which might very well lose that shield if not more on unmodded defense, and can't afford to use a lock in the alpha due to needing the paint mod on defense. Also, 8 FOs don't like losing all of their action economy whey they get blocked by those Academy pilot with mods. Bids and mods are going to matter more now than ever before in HS, because there will be much fewer chances to do them. Also, those FOs don't have a reinforced Decimator to bring to the party in potential squad composition.

T-65 is 40. T-70 is 42; Cannons for those hardpoints are more expensive. Good luck trying to get locks on factions that have a lot more speed on the table, watching 2-3 damage overkill on 20-25 CIS fodder, and trying to chase down a boosting fully realized Han Solo. See also T-65s; Five In A List.

RZ-1 is 29. RZ-2 is 32 ; Focus fire is going to take one off the board pretty quickly, and Hyperspace just got more swarm heavy. MOV is going to be even more precious to scrape and gain. Two RZ-2 A-Wings MIGHT take down a RZ-1 in a round with highly favorable variance, but for the same cost as that I1 Blue Squadron Recruit, one can get an I3 Green Squadron Pilot. Now, skill matters more in that scenario.

GreenDragoon hit on this pretty well in another topic. Comparing chassis is futile. The game is no longer 3 factions. There is too much diversity now to account for all potential compositions, even in curated hyperspace. It's about all the elements available, and how we can perform alchemy with it.

5 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

RZ-1 is 29. RZ-2 is 32 ; The thing that made RZ-2s work so well, Advanced Optics , is not in Hyperspace.

Advanced Optics is still in Hyperspace, it's Pattern Analyser and Targeting Synchroniser that have been rotated out of Hyperspace.

3 minutes ago, Jarval said:

Advanced Optics is still in Hyperspace, it's Pattern Analyser and Targeting Synchroniser that have been rotated out of Hyperspace.

Yeah, I see it now. I was recalling Advanced Sensors from all of my typing. Good luck to those RZ-2s dealing with the proliferation of I3/I4 aces, or 5 T-65s that will just eat one a turn.

36 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

RZ-1 is 29. RZ-2 is 32 ; The thing that made RZ-2s work so well, Advanced Optics , is not in Hyperspace. Without that, they are more expensive plinkers who might have a time on target advantage, sure, but focus fire is going to take one off the board pretty quickly, and Hyperspace just got more swarm heavy. MOV is going to be even more precious to scrape and gain. Two RZ-2 A-Wings MIGHT take down a RZ-1 in a round with highly favorable variance, but for the same cost as that I1 Blue Squadron Recruit, one can get an I3 Green Squadron Pilot. Now, skill matters more in that scenario.

As mentioned Advanced Optics is in. Heroic is also in, and there's very few other factions with a good cheap talent. (Crack Shot, Predator, and Marksmanship are all gone).

Optics + heroics is a lot of nice mods on the cheap.

This fits:

Zizi Tlo (40)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 45 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 2

Tallissan Lintra (36)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 41 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

Ronnith Blario (34)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 39 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

Blue Squadron Recruit (32)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 37 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Blue Squadron Recruit (32)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 37 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2


Total: 199

1 minute ago, Cerebrawl said:

As mentioned Advanced Optics is in. Heroic is also in, and there's very few other factions with a good cheap talent. (Crack Shot, Predator, and Marksmanship are all gone).

Optics + heroics is a lot of nice mods on the cheap.

This fits:

Zizi Tlo (40)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 45 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 2

Tallissan Lintra (36)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 41 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

Ronnith Blario (34)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 39 Half Points: 20 Threshold: 2

Blue Squadron Recruit (32)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 37 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Blue Squadron Recruit (32)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 37 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2


Total: 199

Not disputing that it fits. Just not much fun when 5 X-Wings melts one of those 5 RZ-2s in the alpha, with a returning 8 total attack dice yielding average 5 damage on one focus fired T-65... leaving 5 X-Wings for the beta.... diminishing returns.

And again, Decimators.

49 minutes ago, Jarval said:

Advanced Optics is still in Hyperspace, it's Pattern Analyser and Targeting Synchroniser that have been rotated out of Hyperspace.

They are cutting all the rest of the upgrades and even ships that give mods but not Advanced Optics?

And I'm still really confused by removing the torrents from Republic and the entire VCX expansion except Maul which goes against the "fly something different" theme being proposed. Most factions get five ships and Republic only has five ships.

4 hours ago, Schanez said:

Tie LN is 22. Tie FO is 25, has Lock action, better dial and a shield. Lock is 3 points, Shield on 3 Agility is 8 points, value of dial is debatable.

Show me balance in this. Please.

One issue with the comparison is that the lock action costs 3 points to add to an Academy Pilot, but it's not worth 3 points. Targeting Computer, like most upgrades, is better or worse depending on the ship/pilot it's played on. TC may be worth 3+ points on Soontir (at least there seems to be a buzz surrounding that combo) but the Academy Pilot has much less synergy. I'd probably not take TC on an Academy at even 1 point.

I'm just really mad about V-19s. Those things are the backbone of The Republic. Without them, what do we really have?

Aces lost Wedge, but Fenn Rau is cheaper now; so technically they removed the auto include I6 But Finn is not in hyperspace

14 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

I'm just really mad about V-19s. Those things are the backbone of The Republic. Without them, what do we really have?

oh wait you are being witty

3 hours ago, Cloaker said:

oh wait you are being witty

I wish.

V-19s are absolutely the backbone of Republic listbuilding, or at least the units in general. Yeah, I know I know- Anakin regen R2 7B what ever , I've never cared for ultrafighter builds. I honestly do feel like we've lost a lot without access to our faithful GSTs.

37 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

I wish.

V-19s are absolutely the backbone of Republic listbuilding, or at least the units in general. Yeah, I know I know- Anakin regen R2 7B what ever , I've never cared for ultrafighter builds. I honestly do feel like we've lost a lot without access to our faithful GSTs.

My big loss was Cody. I love throwing a Cody on a named Y or an Arc just to give the rest of my list a nicer shot if I miss. But alas...

It's been fun since last night though. Only played a few Republic games, so the changes haven't hit me TOO hard. I like the challenge, it's like being given some cardboard, same tape and some ping pong balls and told to make a halloween costume lol Nice creative challenge.

I've been playing mostly Republic since the faction came out and I'm delighted by the changes as it might help people realize how awesome generic Jedis with CLT are (well, either that or abandon the faction). The list I won a HS trial two months ago with (~55 players) got 4 points cheaper: 4 Jedi Knights with CLT and Dinée Ellberger with Crack Shot and I now have some more wiggle room for an upgrade or two, or to swap Dinée for Ric (though I love the Omega Leader-esque ability). I'm cautiously optimistic that others *might* see my point of view.

My only gripe is that I was aiming at trying Jedis that attack with 5 dice this season but sadly I'll have to put that plan on hold with the changes to HS.

22 hours ago, Firebird TMK said:

Never played Hyperspace, and that looks to continue.

I don't know what to think, to be honest.

Never got the chance to go to many Hyperspace Trials last year due to travel constraints, so focused most of my attention on the bigger multi-day events.

The Trial I did manage to attend I was woefully underprepared for due to my lack of experience with the format.

This year will be the first time I miss a System Open since they first started. Not dropping several hundred on transport & hotel costs for a limited format event.

This kind of feels to me like those multiplayer games where paid DLC splits the player base into the haves and have-nots, reducing the population of both (looking at you, BF2).

But that's just my opinion, man.

17 hours ago, Cloaker said:

Not disputing that it fits. Just not much fun when 5 X-Wings melts one of those 5 RZ-2s in the alpha, with a returning 8 total attack dice yielding average 5 damage on one focus fired T-65... leaving 5 X-Wings for the beta.... diminishing returns.

And again, Decimators.

If you are jousting with your A Wings, its not the A Wing that's the problem. 5A will absolutely love I1 spam lists. They literally get to fly like 5 aces against them, that's a horrible uphill battle for 5X unless the A Wing player is severely incompetent

I mentioned this in the Krayt thread; I believe this will be the season where people truly realize that close beef formation flying is no longer a necessity. It will be about arc coverage, and true swarm style with angles coming from everywhere. 5 Xs can cast a wide net in an experienced player's hands, and half pointing those As to force them to engage is quite simple when done correctly with that many arcs. I have taken down many 5A lists with 5CM.---although I confess those 1 turns help alot!

7 hours ago, Flurpy said:

If you are jousting with your A Wings, its not the A Wing that's the problem. 5A will absolutely love I1 spam lists. They literally get to fly like 5 aces against them, that's a horrible uphill battle for 5X unless the A Wing player is severely incompetent

On 1/10/2020 at 1:47 AM, GuacCousteau said:

And no, FFG, there's still no reason to take a Republic Y-Wing.

Anakin is now Republics only 6 in hyperspace... Just reminder...

Anakin Skywalker (Y-Wing) (60)
Instinctive Aim (1)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
R4 Astromech (2)

Ship total: 69 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 4

Plo Koon (44)
Ship total: 44 Half Points: 22 Threshold: 2

Ric Olié (42)
Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 3

Ahsoka Tano (44)
Ship total: 44 Half Points: 22 Threshold: 2


Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v8ZhZ200Z359X73WW134WW5WWY312XWWWY333XWWWY276XWWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Plo can take away disarm tokens, just little reminder...

3 hours ago, Redblock said:

Anakin is now Republics only 6 in hyperspace... Just reminder...

Anakin Skywalker (Y-Wing) (60)
Instinctive Aim (1)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
R4 Astromech (2)

Ship total: 69 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 4

Plo Koon (44)
Ship total: 44 Half Points: 22 Threshold: 2

Ric Olié (42)
Ship total: 42 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 3

Ahsoka Tano (44)
Ship total: 44 Half Points: 22 Threshold: 2


Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v8ZhZ200Z359X73WW134WW5WWY312XWWWY333XWWWY276XWWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Plo can take away disarm tokens, just little reminder...

I tried a similar setup (substituting 2 104th ARC's in place of Ric & Ahsoka) when Republic Y-wings first came out. Anakin's potential for shooting APT every turn was nice in theory, but in practice the Y-wing's lack of boost (especially now that Afterburners are out of Hyperspace) made it tricky to consistently line up APT shots.

no idea if Nsara is on these forums but this is super neat, just FYI