37 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I think there is some dart boarding decisions, but they probably looked at what everyone was flying and removed those. When I see which pilots got yanked (and others left) it seems to be the ones everyone took.

I cringe at some of it. Only 2 missiles allowed???? Only 1 Turret? Scum has been reduced to 5 ships!!!! I like many changes, but some seem pretty extreme. I guess this is one way to force people to try Scyks....or will we just see Fang Fighters?

I'm really curious as to why all the Torrents are being dropped from Hyperspace. Just dropping Sinker (passive dice mods) would remove the Torrent swarm. Is there an overall reduction in ships whose main function is blocking?

8 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I'm really curious as to why all the Torrents are being dropped from Hyperspace. Just dropping Sinker (passive dice mods) would remove the Torrent swarm. Is there an overall reduction in ships whose main function is blocking?

Some of it may be to encourage the N-1 and the basic Y-Wing. The low end in Republic looks really different from the low end in Scum or Imperials or First Order, etc.

9 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Some of it may be to encourage the N-1 and the basic Y-Wing. The low end in Republic looks really different from the low end in Scum or Imperials or First Order, etc.

I guess it fits in with the "fly something different" idea but they are two to an expansion that is sort of the entry point to the faction in a faction that only has five ships. So much for playing Republic because your lists were probably going to be good to go in either Hyperspace or Extended. I'm not much of tourney player anyway though.

The choices in hyperspace though do not seem very new player friendly. They seem a pretty serious mess from that aspect.

8 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

The choices in hyperspace though do not seem very new player friendly. They seem a pretty serious mess from that aspect.

Depends.

• A lot of these ships seem to be on the shelf to purchase in 2.0, which certainly makes it easier for new players without having to pick up a conversion kit and hunt around for older models.
• A new player doesn't need to learn the dials/abilities for as many ships at the same time, the learning curve isn't as steep
• A newer player doesn't need to go through as many cards to figure out what is good for them in a list.

There's a lot of advantages for a newer player in Hyperspace. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's not terrible.

46 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I'm really curious as to why all the Torrents are being dropped from Hyperspace. Just dropping Sinker (passive dice mods) would remove the Torrent swarm. Is there an overall reduction in ships whose main function is blocking?

They may have also been paving the way for the LAAT to drop straight in.

3 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I think there is some dart boarding decisions, but they probably looked at what everyone was flying and removed those. When I see which pilots got yanked (and others left) it seems to be the ones everyone took.

I cringe at some of it. Only 2 missiles allowed???? Only 1 Turret? Scum has been reduced to 5 ships!!!! I like many changes, but some seem pretty extreme. I guess this is one way to force people to try Scyks....or will we just see Fang Fighters?

Scum is down to 5 ships... as are the Rebellion and Empire, while the newer factions have only 4 ships.

2 hours ago, Frimmel said:

I'm really curious as to why all the Torrents are being dropped from Hyperspace. Just dropping Sinker (passive dice mods) would remove the Torrent swarm. Is there an overall reduction in ships whose main function is blocking?

This is kind of puzzling to me, too. I'm not sure why the Republic and CIS needed to go down to four ships when the classic 3 have 5. (Re)Releasing another ship for the Sequel factions would make more sense.

They'll be at five once wave 7 releases.

On 1/10/2020 at 12:28 PM, Frimmel said:

I guess it fits in with the "fly something different" idea but they are two to an expansion that is sort of the entry point to the faction in a faction that only has five ships. So much for playing Republic because your lists were probably going to be good to go in either Hyperspace or Extended. I'm not much of tourney player anyway though.

The choices in hyperspace though do not seem very new player friendly. They seem a pretty serious mess from that aspect.

I think many of us here on the forums tend to think a lot in terms of "how this looks to a veteran player", not what it actually looks like to a new player. For many, I suspect years of playing influence many comments they make. @LagJanson has an interesting point, so I thought I'd amplify it...

How many of us remember what it was like to be a new player in X-Wing? More importantly, how many of us are looking at the changes in terms of what's been lost, not how it's been selected? Going through some of these posts, it seems apparent that the following hold:

a) Dice modification is not something that has a particular focus in "this" Hyperspace season - which means that new players are more likely to have a better game.

b) X-Wing 2.0 is at the point where Hyperspace has enough to choose from for new players to provide a varied-enough pool for list building, some selection of ships that fill certain roles, and minimal complexity of interactions, without relying on a lot of holdover material from 1.0

c) Having as limited a pool as is available minimizes new player NPEs (for example, the Nantex is available, but not Ensnare, which means that players just get an opportunity to play with a weirdly-moving ship without having to worry about tractor shenanigans) - at least in my opinion.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that perhaps we need to recognize that the perspectives of a new player and a veteran player may be very different on Hyperspace, and the developers, I think, are trying to weight it towards new players, right now.

59 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

I think many of us here on the forums tend to think a lot in terms of "how this looks to a veteran player", not what it actually looks like to a new player. For many, I suspect years of playing influence many comments they make. @LagJanson has an interesting point, so I thought I'd amplify it...

How many of us remember what it was like to be a new player in X-Wing? More importantly, how many of us are looking at the changes in terms of what's been lost, not how it's been selected? Going through some of these posts, it seems apparent that the following hold:

a) Dice modification is not something that has a particular focus in "this" Hyperspace season - which means that new players are more likely to have a better game.

b) X-Wing 2.0 is at the point where Hyperspace has enough to choose from for new players to provide a varied-enough pool for list building, some selection of ships that fill certain roles, and minimal complexity of interactions, without relying on a lot of holdover material from 1.0

c) Having as limited a pool as is available minimizes new player NPEs (for example, the Nantex is available, but not Ensnare, which means that players just get an opportunity to play with a weirdly-moving ship without having to worry about tractor shenanigans) - at least in my opinion.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that perhaps we need to recognize that the perspectives of a new player and a veteran player may be very different on Hyperspace, and the developers, I think, are trying to weight it towards new players, right now.

Those are all good points. A limited pool does make it easier on new players. Having the dice matter works for new players. Taking stuff that is just not fun to play against out is good for new players.

But you need this three ship expansion so you can fly Obi-wan and pretty much nothing else in the thing is legal in hyperspace is BAD for new players.

And it certainly doesn't help if you already have a lot of reticence to limited formats in the player group. Doesn't matter if it is good for new players if no one wants to play it.

I'm trying to pull in new players and this new hyperspace doesn't really look like a means to do that even though it has lots of good for new players.

9 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

But you need this three ship expansion so you can fly Obi-wan and pretty much nothing else in the thing is legal in hyperspace is BAD for new players.

Agreed. New Republic players (not EU New Republic) got it rough. Which is why I noted things weren’t perfect. There’s a few other smaller oddities but this is the biggest flag I had myself.

1 hour ago, Frimmel said:

But you need this three ship expansion so you can fly Obi-wan and pretty much nothing else in the thing is legal in hyperspace is BAD for new players.

Taking out the torrent is odd to me. If they'd taken out both generics I think that would have been a really cool idea. But it's probably easier this way I guess.

Gonna be leaning hard into that Dedicated Squad Seven Veteran for sure.

15 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Taking out the torrent is odd to me. If they'd taken out both generics I think that would have been a really cool idea. But it's probably easier this way I guess.

Gonna be leaning hard into that Dedicated Squad Seven Veteran for sure.

Keeping the named guys would have at least been consistent with the fly-stuff-you-don't-use theme they had going. And ditching torrent Odd Ball on some sort of difficult text grounds doesn't work since they kept the other two versions with the same ability.

I want to not worry about this stuff but since the points is the points even if you aren't playing either tourney format it all does matter.

15 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Taking out the torrent is odd to me. If they'd taken out both generics I think that would have been a really cool idea. But it's probably easier this way I guess.

Gonna be leaning hard into that Dedicated Squad Seven Veteran for sure.

Keeping the named guys would have at least been consistent with the fly-stuff-you-don't-use theme they had going. And ditching torrent Odd Ball on some sort of difficult text grounds doesn't work since they kept the other two versions with the same ability.

I want to not worry about this stuff but since the points is the points even if you aren't playing either tourney format it all does matter.

2 hours ago, LagJanson said:

Agreed. New Republic players (not EU New Republic) got it rough.

EU New Republic players have it even worse. I've been waiting for years , now; where are my Wraith Squadron X-Wing pilots?

HS seems good in theory, limit all the options and see what meta develops. My main fear with such restricted options though is that by the end of the 6 months you'll have a meta that develops with even less variety then extended. I'll still play it and have fun with it if my meta wants to embrace it. However with such few options comparatively that just makes it easier for people who have the knack for list building (not me) to find the most optimal list for tournaments, which can also turn off new players in a format that's supposed to welcome new players.

1 hour ago, Jaysnipesinc said:

HS seems good in theory, limit all the options and see what meta develops. My main fear with such restricted options though is that by the end of the 6 months you'll have a meta that develops with even less variety then extended. I'll still play it and have fun with it if my meta wants to embrace it.

I doubt that the meta will settle in 6 months time - wave 7 will land halfway through the season, so really you're looking at two 3-month metas (yes, not all factions get new ships, but new ships mean the popular lists will change, and that unsettles the meta). Even if the meta does get stale by the end of 6 months, that's ok because there will be another rotation then to shake things up.

1 hour ago, Jaysnipesinc said:

However with such few options comparatively that just makes it easier for people who have the knack for list building (not me) to find the most optimal list for tournaments, which can also turn off new players in a format that's supposed to welcome new players.

Honestly, I'd say the opposite. With fewer options, there are fewer avenues to success, but there are also far fewer dead-end builds. Besides that, there are far fewer ships for a new player to buy if they want to have a competitive collection.

2 hours ago, Jaysnipesinc said:

HS seems good in theory, limit all the options and see what meta develops. My main fear with such restricted options though is that by the end of the 6 months you'll have a meta that develops with even less variety then extended. I'll still play it and have fun with it if my meta wants to embrace it. However with such few options comparatively that just makes it easier for people who have the knack for list building (not me) to find the most optimal list for tournaments, which can also turn off new players in a format that's supposed to welcome new players.

I think the ideal is a Hyperspace format that, as @gadwag says, is really composed of two three-month metas, although the points will be in force for six. From what I can tell, I think FFG's longer-term plan is to have each six-month points environment include at least one new wave, with a middle wave between the two six-month points refreshes. That's how I would do it, anyway. Keeps things constantly fresh, but still allows for a settling-out period.

On 1/9/2020 at 3:46 PM, feltipern1 said:

Kind of makes you think they're pushing for official app use in order to keep track of it all, eh

the App is supposed to be optional though. its already a pain to download and print a billion points all the time as is

1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:

the App is supposed to be optional though. its already a pain to download and print a billion points all the time as is

Oh how I miss the days when the points were on the cards and the cards didn't actually do what they said :V

16 minutes ago, Nyxen said:

Oh how I miss the days when the points were on the cards and the cards didn't actually do what they said :V

L337 crew and pilot, Nien Numb crew, R4 astromech, Weapon Hardpoint ship ability... Still exists in 2.0.

5 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

the App is supposed to be optional though. its already a pain to download and print a billion points all the time as is

It is optional.

That does not mean that it is the most efficient, pleasant, or recommended way to play the game.

18 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

L337 crew and pilot, Nien Numb crew, R4 astromech, Weapon Hardpoint ship ability... Still exists in 2.0.

Cards that don't do what they say in 1.0: 30

Cards that don't do what they say in 2.0: 6.5 (generously counting the early-print Tactical Officer, Slave I, and AdvS as half cards)

The rest are all just cleaning up.

19 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Cards that don't do what they say in 1.0: 30

Cards that don't do what they say in 2.0: 6.5 (generously counting the early-print Tactical Officer, Slave I, and AdvS as half cards)

The rest are all just cleaning up.

cards in 2.0 that dont have required rules text on them: EVERY SINGLE CARD.

See? I also can post abstract statements that support my preferences

Time to pack up and start a new thread, folks. This one is just going to be Vontoothskie remembering the golden days of 1.0 when we didn't use squadbuilders .