1 hour ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Same can be said of George Lucas, whose focus was more on the themes/story being told rather than the background details or fiddly science-related bits. Lucas was very much a "hey, this looks cool!" type of creative, as exemplified by having WW2 style dogfights IN SPACE! or a group of lasersword-wielding mystics whose belief system was cherry-picked and then kit-bashed from several oriental religious belief systems. Even the original trilogy films were meant more to be spectacle than anything else.

It was only years later that people started fleshing things out and trying to explain/rationalize every bit of dialogue seen on the screen; prime case in point is the huge amounts of fanwankery created in trying to justify Han's comments about making the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs, when the reality is that Lucas thought it sounded good, and from Alec Guisness' facial expressions was likely intended to be a line of BS that Han was tossing out to what the smuggler thought were a couple of local rubes, except that being an experienced traveler Kenobi recognized the line for what it was (BS) but was in a situation where he didn't have the luxury of being choosy.

Sure Abrams' stuff may not be good for figuring out how things work in the GFFA, but if nothing else he's just following in Lucas' footsteps in that regard.

I mostly agree with one exception (noted below). The real problem lies not so much in the movies as it does in the maps. When Lucas started making these movies there were no maps. He used a lot of screen-wipes with no reference to time, and he only put clocks on finite scenes of his movies. For instance, the Death Star was already approaching Yavin IV when we finally get a hard time reference. As a result, we had no idea how long it took to get from one place to another. The maps were created after the fact and whenever possible the locations in various movies were smashed fairly close together.

This broke down a bit with the prequels because Lucas didn't look at the maps he himself had licensed, but most of his screen wipes were "timeless" and a lot of the locations were new and not on any existing maps. He also didn't put a clock on things. When the maps came out after the fact they tried to massage this as much as possible. We can argue over how successful this was. I would suggest "moderately so." If I may be permitted a Trek reference, we ended up with a new "Warp Factor Scale." Those WEG charts went poof!

Abram's work on The Force Awakens is actually pretty clean because we don't know where any of the locations are. The same is true of The Last Jedi. We don't know where any of these places are. The fault there lies in the maps that were made for those films. They put D'Qar and Crait close together, but Canto Bite and Starkiller Base are way across the map. That's not Rian Johnson or JJ Abram's fault. That's the map makers fault.

However, I do think Abram's made an singular error with the Rise of Skywalker that is especially egregious. Abram's has a serious fetish for ticking clocks and he went full Mission Impossible and put one on most of the movie. He then compounded the problem by using some locations that do exist on maps. That combination turned his usual "speed of plot" into "speed of plot-hole." There is no way to bend ones mind around it or massage it the way Lucas' prequel-related issues were massaged. The easiest solution would be to make a new map that moves all the sequel locations. Then there would be no problem.

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

I agree. but it might be worth figuring out what that number is and comparing to the number for A new Hope. Maybe if we take all the movie times for the whole saga we can find a happy medium that would allow for triumphs to get those numbers and be more reasonable over all. Maybe Galaxy mapper talend plays a part?

You could do this. I think a new map would be easier.

6 minutes ago, Vondy said:

I mostly agree with one exception (noted below). The real problem lies not so much in the movies as it does in the maps. When Lucas started making these movies there were no maps. He used a lot of screen-wipes with no reference to time, and he only put clocks on finite scenes of his movies. For instance, the Death Star was already approaching Yavin IV when we finally get a hard time reference. As a result, we had no idea how long it took to get from one place to another. The maps were created after the fact and whenever possible the locations in various movies were smashed fairly close together.

This broke down a bit with the prequels because Lucas didn't look at the maps he himself had licensed, but most of his screen wipes were "timeless" and a lot of the locations were new and not on any existing maps. He also didn't put a clock on things. When the maps came out after the fact they tried to massage this as much as possible. We can argue over how successful this was. I would suggest "moderately so." If I may be permitted a Trek reference, we ended up with a new "Warp Factor Scale." Those WEG charts went poof!

Abram's work on The Force Awakens is actually pretty clean because we don't know where any of the locations are. Any issues that arise are the fault of the maps. The same is true of The Last Jedi. We don't know where any of these places are. The fault there lies in the maps that were made for those films. They put D'Qar and Crait close together, but Canto Bite and Starkiller Base are way across the map. That's not Rian Johnson or JJ Abram's fault. That's the map makers fault.

However, I do think Abram's made an singular error with the Rise of Skywalker that is especially egregious. Abram's has a serious fetish for ticking clocks and he went full Mission Impossible and put one on most of the movie. He then compounded the problem by using some locations that do exist on maps. That combination turned his usual "speed of plot" into "speed of plot-hole." There is no way to bend ones mind around it or massage it the way Lucas' prequel-related issues were massaged. The easiest solution would be to make a new map that moves all the sequel locations. Then there would be no problem.

You could do this. I think a new map would be easier.

a new map might be easier...but probably would lead to more fights. I suppose part of it would be newer ships have faster hyperdrives. theFalson already had a really fast one....But I allso think galaxy mapper fix might help some. but we would probably need to make up know locations and approximate travel times to see how hard it would be to fix.

17 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

a new map might be easier...but probably would lead to more fights. I suppose part of it would be newer ships have faster hyperdrives. theFalson already had a really fast one....But I allso think galaxy mapper fix might help some. but we would probably need to make up know locations and approximate travel times to see how hard it would be to fix.

I have a digital copy of the FFG map that has Crait and D'Qar added to it already. It wouldn't be too hard for me to drop Canto Bite and Starkiller Base in that general region of space. .I think the main scaling challenge vis-a-vis will be the distance between those and Ach-To, Endor, and Exogol. I guess I have a weekend project!

3 minutes ago, Vondy said:

I have a digital copy of the FFG map that has Crait and D'Qar added to it already. It wouldn't be too hard for me to drop Canto Bite and Starkiller Base in that general region of space. .I think the main scaling challenge vis-a-vis will be the distance between those and Ach-To, Endor, and Exogol. I guess I have a weekend project!

Star Killer Base was ilum. the finally admitted it.

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Star Killer Base was ilum. the finally admitted it.

Source?

Hmm.... we could put Crait and D'Qar in the general vicinity of Ilum, drop Canto Bite around the bend closer to the main Core, and then drop Ach-To and Exogol "behind" the deep core so that they are somewhere between Ilum and Endor. That would at least put all the main sequel locations on one side of the map. We shall see.

2 minutes ago, Vondy said:

Source?

Hmm.... we could put Crait and D'Qar in the general vicinity of Ilum, drop Canto Bite around the bend closer to the main Core, and then drop Ach-To and Exogol "behind" the deep core so that they are somewhere between Ilum and Endor. That would at least put all the main sequel locations on one side of the map. We shall see.

We do have maps with their locations...might be worth a look to .

As to Ilum I saw someone say it was admitted but I cant find a link. But it is listed as the same size now along with same place on the map, same environment...so on.

3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

We do have maps with their locations...might be worth a look to .

Those maps are the root of the problem, though. They put things from the sequels on opposite ends of the galaxy from one another and then drop a 16 hour clock onto shooting back and forth across it.

26 minutes ago, Vondy said:

Source?

Hmm.... we could put Crait and D'Qar in the general vicinity of Ilum, drop Canto Bite around the bend closer to the main Core, and then drop Ach-To and Exogol "behind" the deep core so that they are somewhere between Ilum and Endor. That would at least put all the main sequel locations on one side of the map. We shall see.

It's in the new Visual Dictionary. It's also revealed in Jedi: Fallen Order when the main character visits Ilum. We see the planet has begun the process of being turned into Starkiller Base.

1 hour ago, Vondy said:

Those maps are the root of the problem, though. They put things from the sequels on opposite ends of the galaxy from one another and then drop a 16 hour clock onto shooting back and forth across it.

take a look at this one

35 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

take a look at this one

That's actually the one I'm working off of!

Here is an example of the kind of problem we're dealing with....

First, let's assume Starkiller Base is a rogue planet (mobile), which means that it was probably in the vicinity of Hosnian Prime when it fired. If we follow the pattern of A New Hope, then it probably proceeded towards D'Qar where the Resistance Base was. That's 4-5 map squares. If you assume 3 hours per map square you are looking at a window of 12-15 hours for the resistance not only to realize what has happened, but to scrabble together a plan, and then make their play. It mostly works with the movie time-frame. So, no problem.

That also works for the FO fleet showing up almost immediately afterward at the beginning of TLJ, but not with Rey's story (below). Here, however, is where we run into our first problem. Crait is approximately 1 map square away from D'Qar. Canto Bite, however, is 14 squares away next to the Corporate Sector and Ach-To is roughly 8 map squares away around the bend of the Deep Core.

Rose and Finn travel 14 map squares one way, have an adventure, and travel 14 map squares back the other way, all in the time in takes the resistance fleet to travel from D'Qar and Crait. They have to be traveling more than 28 times as fast as the resistance fleet to get that done. That's not just fast. That's ludicrously fast. A galaxy mapping talent can't explain that (to me, at least).

For instance, if we assume the resistance fleet needed 3 hours to travel from D'Qar to Crait, then Finn and Rose would have been crossing at least one map square every 6 minutes and 20 seconds. That's not Rian Johnson's fault. All the map makers had to do was drop Cantonica within a few map squares and we could reasonably create some trumped up fan theory to hand-wave their impressive haste.

As for Rey's travelling to Ach-To and training for an indeterminate amount of time we have to assume 1) Johnson was using a non-linear scene structure, and 2) it took the first order an indeterminate amount of time to regroup and locate the resistance base. That's clear as mud, but its the only way to jam her days or weeks of training into the hours the other characters spent running from D'Qar to Crait.

That leaves us with another issue: is the Falcon, which is ancient and held together by duct tape and chewing gum, really 8 times as fast as modern fighters and warships? Again, using a hypothetical 3 hours from D'Qar to Crait, she and Chewie would be crossing one map square every 22 minutes and 30 seconds. That would also mean the Falcon is 4 times slower than the ship Rose and Poe were on.

Let's stop there for the present. The speeds in Rise of Skywalker are even faster than that.

And then there is this...

4 minutes ago, Vondy said:

That's actually the one I'm working off of!

Here is an example of the kind of problem we're dealing with....

First, let's assume Starkiller Base is a rogue planet (mobile), which means that it was probably in the vicinity of Hosnian Prime when it fired. If we follow the pattern of A New Hope, then it probably proceeded towards D'Qar where the Resistance Base was. That's 4-5 map squares. If you assume 3 hours per map square you are looking at a window of 12-15 hours for the resistance not only to realize what has happened, but to scrabble together a plan, and then make their play. It mostly works with the movie time-frame. So, no problem.

That also works for the FO fleet showing up almost immediately afterward at the beginning of TLJ, but not with Rey's story (below). Here, however, is where we run into our first problem. Crait is approximately 1 map square away from D'Qar. Canto Bite, however, is 14 squares away next to the Corporate Sector and Ach-To is roughly 8 map squares away around the bend of the Deep Core.

Rose and Finn travel 14 map squares one way, have an adventure, and travel 14 map squares back the other way, all in the time in takes the resistance fleet to travel from D'Qar and Crait. They have to be traveling more than 28 times as fast as the resistance fleet to get that done. That's not just fast. That's ludicrously fast. A galaxy mapping talent can't explain that (to me, at least).

For instance, if we assume the resistance fleet needed 3 hours to travel from D'Qar to Crait, then Finn and Rose would have been crossing at least one map square every 6 minutes and 20 seconds. That's not Rian Johnson's fault. All the map makers had to do was drop Cantonica within a few map squares and we could reasonably create some trumped up fan theory to hand-wave their impressive haste.

As for Rey's travelling to Ach-To and training for an indeterminate amount of time we have to assume 1) Johnson was using a non-linear scene structure, and 2) it took the first order an indeterminate amount of time to regroup and locate the resistance base. That's clear as mud, but its the only way to jam her days or weeks of training into the hours the other characters spent running from D'Qar to Crait.

That leaves us with another issue: is the Falcon, which is ancient and held together by duct tape and chewing gum, really 8 times as fast as modern fighters and warships? Again, using a hypothetical 3 hours from D'Qar to Crait, she and Chewie would be crossing one map square every 22 minutes and 30 seconds. That would also mean the Falcon is 4 times slower than the ship Rose and Poe were on.

Let's stop there for the present. The speeds in Rise of Skywalker are even faster than that.

The D'Qar to Crait trip was SUPER LONG. it was an incredibly stupid plot device. Universes slowest ship chase...
But Star Killer is Ilum and i guess technically it became a Rogue planet when it ate its own sun.

I do think Galaxy mapper idea can help with this.

11 minutes ago, Vondy said:

And then there is this...

10 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

The D'Qar to Crait trip was SUPER LONG. it was an incredibly stupid plot device. Universes slowest ship chase...
But Star Killer is Ilum and i guess technically it became a Rogue planet when it ate its own sun.

I do think Galaxy mapper idea can help with this.

As @Daeglan said, the flight from D'qar to Crait took "super" long. It should also be noted that the majority of the flight of the Resistance fleet took place in realspace. They were already within the Crait system. As such, they were traveling at sublight speeds through the planetary system to Crait. Imagine how long it takes real rockets to get from Earth to Mars, and that's the next planet over within the same star system . Star Wars ships at sublight speeds aren't much faster. In fact, based upon many of the stats given in the lore, they're slower . So it makes perfect sense that Rose and Finn could travel to Canto Bight and back within the amount of time it takes the Resistance fleet to get to Crait at sublight speeds, even if it took days or weeks to do so.

I give up. I'm just going to assume hyperspace travel is now essentially instantaneous and call it a day.

I have run a campaign going on 20 games now. Only once did we need to know how long it took to travel through hyperspace. I used the "speed of plot" method.

I much prefer the time it takes in the movies vs the old D6 legacy times. I always through it took too long.

The x hours per x cm (not inches! I am not a heathen!) seems like a good method. It depends on the size of the map you are using though.

6 minutes ago, Andreievitch said:

I have run a campaign going on 20 games now. Only once did we need to know how long it took to travel through hyperspace. I used the "speed of plot" method.

I much prefer the time it takes in the movies vs the old D6 legacy times. I always through it took too long.

The x hours per x cm (not inches! I am not a heathen!) seems like a good method. It depends on the size of the map you are using though.

Dang Brits.

I'm basing it off the map in the CRBs in the Galaxy chapter. Easy conversion is Xhours*squares.

For me the issue of hyperspace travel times isn't a plot issue. Its a big question "rational universe" issue. Why are some regions of the galaxy mostly or completely unexplored? Why are some planets considered remote backwaters and effectively outside the Empire's reach when everything is right next door. How to basic economics work vis-a-vis trade routes and economic zones? And, since this is Star Wars , how does that impact war planning and military strategy?

An alternative that may allow "speed of plot" and yet answer some of those questions is: scrap distance. Actual time spent in hyperspace is incidental. A few minutes or the length of a good conversation. Rather, what matters is drive, gravity, galactic density, and route information. In other words, the speed that matters is real space speed and translation speed. In other words, how long does it take me to get to a safe hyperspace entry point, how long does it take the drive to translate us into and out of hyperspace, and how long does it take me to get to my destination after I've exited hyperspace?

Secondary factors would be whether or not there are huge intervening gravity wells warping hyperspace that make the calculations for translation and de-translation more difficult (and lengthy) or require the drive to physically take longer to complete the translation process. That would be where exploration and information comes into play. Do you have charts? Per Han, "Traveling through hyperspace isn’t like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that’d end your trip real quick, wouldn’t it?"

This would explain why expansion was slow and why vast regions are still considered remote enigmas that no one knows much about. You have can only expand galactic civilization outward one system at a time and you compile route data and your trip planning is heavily dependent on using known routes between various systems. There may be a better documented, and therefore faster, routes between two distant planets than two seemingly close ones based on the known routes available.

Also, if the area of space you are traveling through is celestially "dense" then the number of operations, or even physical micro-translations performed by the drive might take longer to complete. You only percieve yourself as traveling from Point A to Point B. The hyperdrive may have actually taken you from A to T to C to X to B before exiting hyperspace. Traveling through the deep core would therefore take longer than running down an open, known space lane.

Many planets on the outer rim may be in largely uncharted area, leaving few potential safe routes to reach them That would be why interdictors could be used to block hyperspace access to some systems: there is only one or two documented safe routes in and out of the system.

And, lastly, there's the cost of fuel. The quote the movie The Quiet Man , "Why would a man go to Inisfree?" Or, for our purposes, "Why would a man go to Tattoine?" Fuel costs money. There has to be a reason to spend money to get to and from a place. Tattooine, for instance, is filled with moisture farmers, nerf herders, and tusken raiders. Those are not economic cash cows and only provide a limited market for off world traders. Its the spice trade and pod-races entice hyperdrive capable ships into the system. So, for most residence the idea of interplanetary travel is... exotic.

Essentially, this lets you keep a coherent universe while, at the same time declaring. "Maps matter not!"

1 hour ago, Vondy said:

For me the issue of hyperspace travel times isn't a plot issue. Its a big question "rational universe" issue. Why are some regions of the galaxy mostly or completely unexplored? Why are some planets considered remote backwaters and effectively outside the Empire's reach when everything is right next door. How to basic economics work vis-a-vis trade routes and economic zones? And, since this is Star Wars , how does that impact war planning and military strategy?

An alternative that may allow "speed of plot" and yet answer some of those questions is: scrap distance. Actual time spent in hyperspace is incidental. A few minutes or the length of a good conversation. Rather, what matters is drive, gravity, galactic density, and route information. In other words, the speed that matters is real space speed and translation speed. In other words, how long does it take me to get to a safe hyperspace entry point, how long does it take the drive to translate us into and out of hyperspace, and how long does it take me to get to my destination after I've exited hyperspace?

Secondary factors would be whether or not there are huge intervening gravity wells warping hyperspace that make the calculations for translation and de-translation more difficult (and lengthy) or require the drive to physically take longer to complete the translation process. That would be where exploration and information comes into play. Do you have charts? Per Han, "Traveling through hyperspace isn’t like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that’d end your trip real quick, wouldn’t it?"

This would explain why expansion was slow and why vast regions are still considered remote enigmas that no one knows much about. You have can only expand galactic civilization outward one system at a time and you compile route data and your trip planning is heavily dependent on using known routes between various systems. There may be a better documented, and therefore faster, routes between two distant planets than two seemingly close ones based on the known routes available.

Also, if the area of space you are traveling through is celestially "dense" then the number of operations, or even physical micro-translations performed by the drive might take longer to complete. You only percieve yourself as traveling from Point A to Point B. The hyperdrive may have actually taken you from A to T to C to X to B before exiting hyperspace. Traveling through the deep core would therefore take longer than running down an open, known space lane.

Many planets on the outer rim may be in largely uncharted area, leaving few potential safe routes to reach them That would be why interdictors could be used to block hyperspace access to some systems: there is only one or two documented safe routes in and out of the system.

And, lastly, there's the cost of fuel. The quote the movie The Quiet Man , "Why would a man go to Inisfree?" Or, for our purposes, "Why would a man go to Tattoine?" Fuel costs money. There has to be a reason to spend money to get to and from a place. Tattooine, for instance, is filled with moisture farmers, nerf herders, and tusken raiders. Those are not economic cash cows and only provide a limited market for off world traders. Its the spice trade and pod-races entice hyperdrive capable ships into the system. So, for most residence the idea of interplanetary travel is... exotic.

Essentially, this lets you keep a coherent universe while, at the same time declaring. "Maps matter not!"

I agree.

I think there are 3 factors we can manipulate aside from location.

The hyperdrive rating.

The astrogation roll

And any talents the character has.

I think we can use these to help bring larger distances down to movie times.

12 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Might help us get a better judge on travel times

No, it definitely won't help. Disney is just the worst, when the universe's coherence matters.

9 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Same can be said of George Lucas, whose focus was more on the themes/story being told rather than the background details or fiddly science-related bits. Lucas was very much a "hey, this looks cool!" type of creative, as exemplified by having WW2 style dogfights IN SPACE! or a group of lasersword-wielding mystics whose belief system was cherry-picked and then kit-bashed from several oriental religious belief systems. Even the original trilogy films were meant more to be spectacle than anything else.

It was only years later that people started fleshing things out and trying to explain/rationalize every bit of dialogue seen on the screen; prime case in point is the huge amounts of fanwankery created in trying to justify Han's comments about making the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs, when the reality is that Lucas thought it sounded good, and from Alec Guisness' facial expressions was likely intended to be a line of BS that Han was tossing out to what the smuggler thought were a couple of local rubes, except that being an experienced traveler Kenobi recognized the line for what it was (BS) but was in a situation where he didn't have the luxury of being choosy.

Sure Abrams' stuff may not be good for figuring out how things work in the GFFA, but if nothing else he's just following in Lucas' footsteps in that regard.

The same can't be said to Lucas, who started it from zero, not building on an already existing world, with all of its rules and laws which the Disney so conveniently pushes aside most of the time.

Yes Lucas also used travel as a plot transition, but he didn't have a fleshed out universe to work in, the universe was built around what we saw. Other authors more or less worked within those frames, but Disney just don't care.

9 hours ago, Rimsen said:

The same can't be said to Lucas, who started it from zero, not building on an already existing world, with all of its rules and laws which the Disney so conveniently pushes aside most of the time.

Yes Lucas also used travel as a plot transition, but he didn't have a fleshed out universe to work in, the universe was built around what we saw. Other authors more or less worked within those frames, but Disney just don't care.

It can, because by the time he started work on the prequels, there were a lot of background details that were fleshed out. He just went ahead and ignored them.

Point being, if one is going to lambast JJ Abrams for ignoring previously established "lore" (and I use that term very loosely given that hyperspace travel times were created by WEG nearly three decades ago) regarding travel times in a fictional universe, then that same person should also be lambasting Lucas for doing that himself, or not even bothering to establish that sort of detail in the first place.

I think the main problem we are facing here is that any kind of creative work is built on the Authors very own rules, and they only stay in place as long as he/she needs them to. As soon as the story demands them to bend or break - they'll do exactly that. There are only limited numbers of Authors establishing hard rules within and stick to those no matter what.
Now for what we do, there is one big problem: It doesn't matter if the table leans more into the narrative or the hard ruled gameplay, there are 3 to 5 (and sometimes more) people wanting to tell somewhat connected stories inside the same space. And it feels strange if the travel times differ from one time to another on the same route by the factor of 20 just for the story.
I'll stick to the galaxy map and the stricter system, while just ignoring timing problems within the Movies.
If I want time problems I'll create them by the time I give them and not fuding with the time they need, that way an awesome astrogation check or the use of talents gains more weight because the time window will grow.

6 minutes ago, Malashim said:

I think the main problem we are facing here is that any kind of creative work is built on the Authors very own rules, and they only stay in place as long as he/she needs them to. As soon as the story demands them to bend or break - they'll do exactly that. There are only limited numbers of Authors establishing hard rules within and stick to those no matter what.
Now for what we do, there is one big problem: It doesn't matter if the table leans more into the narrative or the hard ruled gameplay, there are 3 to 5 (and sometimes more) people wanting to tell somewhat connected stories inside the same space. And it feels strange if the travel times differ from one time to another on the same route by the factor of 20 just for the story.
I'll stick to the galaxy map and the stricter system, while just ignoring timing problems within the Movies.
If I want time problems I'll create them by the time I give them and not fuding with the time they need, that way an awesome astrogation check or the use of talents gains more weight because the time window will grow.

I think it is more like Lucas never set travel times so he never felt the need to follow rules established by others.

Although this could also be just the case because he never came up with a plot where travel times mattered that much.

If our discussion would be easier or better off when Lucas had established travel times (or tried to) - I'm not sure

Until now The Mandalorian also dodged this bullet by making the travels feel quite "relaxed" at least timewise.

13 hours ago, Daeglan said:

I agree.

I think there are 3 factors we can manipulate aside from location.

The hyperdrive rating.

The astrogation roll

And any talents the character has.

I think we can use these to help bring larger distances down to movie times.

Its a starting point!

I would say the relative locations of Point A and B are less important than the data you have on potential known routes between them. For instance, if I'm on Tattooine and I want to get to Alderaan I may actually be transiting down a series of well-known routes to get there. I only perceive myself as having gone directly from Point A to Point B. This let's us replace distance with "route complexity" which is where our giant hand-wave comes in. Route complexity in the deep core, star clusters, or when transiting through poorly documented regions of space would be higher than when shooting down a well-worn space lane or a thoroughly documented region of space (e.g., the Core).

So... "route complexity" modified by hyperdrive rating and astrogation roll and relevant talents?